Artists do SO argue about their tools

[rbiemer]

There have been some remarks here and there that "artists don't talk about their brushes" or "carpenters don't obsess about their hammers" when we here at RFF are getting heavy on the gear talk.
I've generally stayed away from those kind of comments but:
Last night I had to throw out two customers from the restaurant where I work because they were having a screaming argument about the virtues(or lack of) a specific loom and the people who use it. Here in Cortland we have a small but(apparently) intense community of fabric artists/weavers. Four of them came to have dinner and some cocktails where I work and were talking about their tools when the "discussion" got very heated. I have no idea about the merits of either side to this argument but one woman basically decided that the guy she was yelling at was incompetent, immoral, and a disgrace to the weaving community because of the loom he had just bought (I won't try to repeat what was actually said--I don't understand the "tech" part of it and the rest was in words that we can't/don't use here). The guy retorted that she was behind the times and set in her ways. I was in my kitchen, finishing up for the night when the commotion in the dining room got my attention. As I was going out to the front of the house to see what the noise was, one of the wait-staff was coming bak to the kitchen top get me to intercede.
No punches were exchanged and the two of them got into the same car to leave so I suspect there was more going on than a simple gear discussion but still.
I have to admit, it made me feel a little better about my gearhead tendencies
Rob

[lubitel]

I once had to defend the honour of russian made watercolors against a very agressive art-history student who thought that just because he got a bad batch, all russian water colors suck. Its just like with fsu cameras, when you get a good one - they are wonderful, and the price is like a third of what you'll pay for some "professional west quality"

[BJ Bignell]

How immature do you need to be to have a screaming match in a restaurant over a tool? I can see getting upset when someone disagrees with your opinion, or if someone said "You're being stupid", but to actually start screaming at each other?

Jeezus! Get a life, and maybe a little bit of self control, too...

[thanatos]

You know that Gaggia you have Rob? It sucks.

[rbiemer]

Originally Posted by thanatos

You know that Gaggia you have Rob? It sucks.

No, actually i don't know that word. Please be more specific.
Rob

[Flyfisher Tom]

Gaggia is a brand of espresso makers ... and actually, they rock

[thanatos]

OK, even though my moment has passed - You know that shiny Italian espresso maker you have Rob? It sucks.

Restaurant, artisans, arguing about tools, brand of coffee... Oh, never mind.

[rbiemer]

Originally Posted by thanatos

OK, even though my moment has passed - You know that shiny Italian espresso maker you have Rob? It sucks.

Restaurant, artisans, arguing about tools, brand of coffee... Oh, never mind.

Sorry I didn't get it! I can't offer you an espresso, but I can put a shamrock in the head of a Guiness if you'd like. I was practising last night so I'm a little slow(er) today...
Rob

[jan normandale]

BJ... don't patronize us RFF members or I'll come overseas and yell at you about your Leica lust which are not worth the money even if they were free ... OKAY!!!!! (thread humour/joke)


Natos... you're right Gaggia is so old school, get with it Rob!! You fuddy duddy! (also joke/humour)

@ Rob.. what's wrong with yelling in a restaurant if you believe in what you are saying.... (additionally joke / humour)

oops .... ;- ) sorry guys I temporarily lost it ... hope you'll forgive me as we now get back into the "figurative" car and chat some more.

BTW Guiness... highly over rated, now Pilsner Urquell , that's a beer!

Okay I'm hiding now that I've stirred up the artistic hornets nest... LoL!!

Love you guys!!

Jan

[dmr]

Originally Posted by BJ Bignell

How immature do you need to be to have a screaming match in a restaurant over a tool?

ROFL! You obviously don't know my Ex!

(Don't ask!)

[BJ Bignell]

When I hear about people acting like this, it really gets on my nerves. Honestly, why don't people grow up... But then, I get worked up (like Tony Soprano gets worked up) when I see people wearing a hat in a restaurant. Morons. (*Alright alright, take a deep breath...*)

Originally Posted by jan normandale

BJ... don't patronize us RFF members or I'll come overseas and yell at you about your Leica lust which are not worth the money even if they were free ... OKAY!!!!! (thread humour/joke)

Jan, to save you the trouble of going overseas, I have moved to Montreal. Anytime you want to have a shouting match, come on up and meet me on St-Denis and we'll sort out our differences like men: over pints of beer!

[jan normandale]

Originally Posted by BJ Bignell

When I hear about people acting like this, it really gets on my nerves. Honestly, why don't people grow up... But then, I get worked up (like Tony Soprano gets worked up) when I see people wearing a hat in a restaurant. Morons. (*Alright alright, take a deep breath...*)

Jan, to save you the trouble of going overseas, I have moved to Montreal. Anytime you want to have a shouting match, come on up and meet me on St-Denis and we'll sort out our differences like men: over pints of beer!

BJ... yer back??!!

Maybe we should have a Toronto / Montreal RFF meeting. St Denis is the place to meet for sure. More beer drunk there in one night than in Sudbury or Prince George in a weekend.

[BJ Bignell]

Originally Posted by jan normandale

BJ... yer back??!!

Maybe we should have a Toronto / Montreal RFF meeting.

Indeed I'm back. I'd love to do a Montreal/Toronto get-together, but I'm leaving for Alberta next week, and won't be back until mid-to-late September. Perhaps after then...

[Socke]

Originally Posted by dmr

ROFL! You obviously don't know my Ex!

(Don't ask!)

Or never had a relationship with a brazilian girl

[Finder]

Artists don't argue about tools, amateurs do.

[ray_g]

Originally Posted by rbiemer

...Four of them came to have dinner and some cocktails where I work and were talking about their tools when the "discussion" got very heated....

I think the operative word here is cocktails.

[fitzihardwurshd]

Originally Posted by BJ Bignell

How immature do you need to be to have a screaming match in a restaurant over a tool? I can see getting upset when someone disagrees with your opinion, or if someone said "You're being stupid", but to actually start screaming at each other?

Jeezus! Get a life, and maybe a little bit of self control, too...

When the tools are in the foreground it simply proves that people are not really concentrating on the issue itself .
No matter if it is about photography,cooking, fishing, painting, biking or whatelse.
Such an agressive and loud controverse proves that these people have left the issue completely behind and now only fight for their place in the pecking order.
It is a deep uncertainty which lets people use their tools to defend their status instead of producing anything decent with them.
And this is a very basic and strong emotion coming from deep inside and it rolls over all rules of good behaviour.
So the truth is about people who yell at you and offend you in a discussion about tools: They fight for what they keep as beeing their personal identity.
That is how I read his story about the traditionalistic lady and the guy with modern loom !

Fitzi

[fitzihardwurshd]

Originally Posted by Finder

Artists don't argue about tools, amateurs do.

True. They got no time for that. They need it for argueing about who is an artist and who is a wannabee only

Fitzi

[anabasis]

In my 2 major hobbies, photography and amateur radio, there seems to be two major topics that get people all up in arms. 1) brand wars. 2) paradigm shifts (eg film vs digital). People just can't seem to have a civil debate about it. Sounds to me that the weaving debate was more the later.

In fact one of my favorite things about this board is that there are people who use all sorts of brands and still get along. So different from the Canon vs. Nikon war on other boards. It is so much more genteel here.

JCA

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by jan normandale

BTW Guiness... highly over rated, now Pilsner Urquell , that's a beer!

Jan

I've just found a beer called "Duckstein" (really) that I like even better. Give it a try!

[lubitel]

I like Duckstein as well, and I love Guiness, but that's in a category of itself and hard to compare to other beers, i think.

[jan normandale]

Originally Posted by jaapv

I've just found a beer called "Duckstein" (really) that I like even better. Give it a try!

thanks, I'll look for it!

[Stephanie Brim]

No no no. REAL beer is the stuff made where you're drinking it.

And hi. How're you?

[Stephanie Brim]

Thinking about beer. I want to go to the brewery this weekend, but both the boyfriend and I are broke as hell since we're saving up to go to Colorado in September. Imagine the good photographic oportunities there.

[rvaubel]

Originally Posted by anabasis

In fact one of my favorite things about this board is that there are people who use all sorts of brands and still get along. So different from the Canon vs. Nikon war on other boards. It is so much more genteel here.

JCA

Genteel my as*. Just change the topic to using or not using filters as lens protectors and watch the gloves come off.

Rex

P.S. Hello Stephenie!! We missed you!