silver zm lenses: aluminum or brass?

visiondr · 07-07-2006

Are silver Zeiss ZM lenses really chrome plated brass (as Leica lenses are) or are they aluminum? I suspect the latter because there seems to be no weight differential between the black and silver lenses. How do the silver lenses look when a bit worn by use? I have seen anodized black Leica lenses take on nicks and scratches in the black colour revealing the silver metal beneath. On another note, why does Leica use the heavier brass for chrome lenses instead of aluminum? Just musing.

Ron

back alley · 07-07-2006

i believe they are silver paint.

visiondr · 07-07-2006

Does that mean they're painted silver over aluminum (a silver-ish metal)? That doesn't make sense to me.

R

Kyle · 07-07-2006

They're aluminum, painted silver.

back alley · 07-07-2006

are you sure it's aluminum?

isn't the body magnesium? maybe the lenses are also.
i have searched but can't find the info.

oh huck?

joe

Kyle · 07-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

are you sure it's aluminum?

isn't the body magnesium? maybe the lenses are also.
i have searched but can't find the info.

oh huck?

joe

I believe it was Huck that told me this.

My first ZM lens was the 35/2 that I bought used off a buddy of mine last year. I sold it to Huck and because it had a couple small nicks he wanted to know what the lenses were made of, as I believe he was worried about rust effects and things like that down the line. IIRC, Zeiss told him that they were aluminum. Hopefully he can confirm this.

grantray · 07-07-2006

Black lenses are definitely brass. (Nicked mine, hence knowing.) As such, I find it interesting that the "silver" barrels are made of a different material... I suppose varience, which is odd, is still cost effective in production?

-grant

Huck Finn · 07-07-2006

All ZM lenses lenses are aluminum - painted either black or silver. As are virtually all modern lenses by other manufacturers as well. this has been the case for the last 30 years. This includes Leica lenses with the exception of the chrome lenses, which are made of brass.

willie_901 · 07-07-2006

The paint used on the ZM lenses seems to be robust. I have not pampered mine nor have I abused it. The finish looks new. The lens and camera have been with me on a daily basis in a felt-lined bag and have slid around inside quite a bit.

willie

visiondr · 07-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck Finn

All ZM lenses lenses are aluminum - painted either black or silver.

By "painted" you must mean anodized, right? One doesn't just paint aluminum. It wouldn't stay pretty for very long.

Ron

Kyle · 07-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by visiondr

By "painted" you must mean anodized, right? One doesn't just paint aluminum. It wouldn't stay pretty for very long.

Ron

If thats the case, then I'm sure they are anodized. The finish on these lenses (and the body as well) is very tough and have had no problems so far.

visiondr · 07-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle

The finish on these lenses (and the body as well) is very tough and have had no problems so far.

Thanks Kyle, I was getting all hot and bothered by the prospect of a new Zeiss 50mm/1.5 Sonnar later this year and I want a solid performer optically and mechanically.

Ron

back alley · 07-07-2006

ron
these lenses are solid.
and smoooooth too.

i very much like how they feel in action.

joe

visiondr · 07-07-2006

Thanks Joe,

It's nice to hear how good they are. Now, if I could only find a dealer where I live so I can check them out in person.

tetrisattack · 07-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck Finn

All ZM lenses lenses are aluminum - painted either black or silver.

Really? The black paint on my ZM 50 is beginning to wear, and it's golden brown underneath, not silvery aluminum. It looks like brass. Is the aluminum treated somehow, then painted over?

SDK · 07-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetrisattack

Really? The black paint on my ZM 50 is beginning to wear, and it's golden brown underneath, not silvery aluminum. It looks like brass. Is the aluminum treated somehow, then painted over?

That's a good guess, Zeiss might have plated or lacquered something over the aluminum in order to make the paint stick better. Aluminum alloys are notoriously difficult for getting paint to stick. My Black ZM 50mm also shows yellowish in worn areas, but my Black ZM 28mm has some unfortunate deep scratches that are white metal.

On Herr Puts page http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c016.html, Erwin states "The ZM lenses have aluminium mounts and are not available in chrome (silver and black). The black versions are painted." This does answer the base material question, but not the silver finish question. Has anyone with silver lens(es) scratched the finish enough to tell?

back alley · 07-08-2006

i have to shoot more, none of my gear is wearing thin anywhere.

Palaeoboy · 07-08-2006

Nickel plate sometimes has a yellow colour doesnt it? I think you will find the answer neither black nor white but rather that some components will be aluminium and others brass and that accounts for some differences. So it may well depend on what part of the lens wears most. I dare say that the majority of the barrel like the focus ring is aluminium. Some old Nikon lenses were painted rather than anodized and the coating is really tough then you have some of the Voigtlander lenses which are anodized and they wear within days. I think its more the quality of the process rather than which one they choose is more important.

In response to one of the thread questions, Leica uses brass on Chrome lenses because they cant chrome plate with Aluminium ones. Hence there Black lenses are anodized and chrome ones are plated.

rvaubel · 07-08-2006

Almost all modern lenses are aluminum. The exception is Leica which are brass. Silver lenses from the 50's are mostly chrome plated brass with the execption of Russian lenses which are almost always aluminum. Brass lenses are a lot heavier than aluminum ones and, if actually crome plated, more durable than painted or aluminum.

From a durability point of view from from best to worst in my opinion

.Chrome plated brass. Bullet proof and very difficult to damage but heavy. Today only Leica and getting harder to get. Heavy but satisfing (for me). If worn, the base material has a nice brassing look if you like that asthetic

.Silver anodized or silver paint aluminum. In theory silver anodized is much harder than paint but in practice if you scratch it hard enough the soft aluminum underneath the hard anodization scratches, revealing the aluminum. But at least it is silver colored too.

.Black anodized or black paint aluminum. Most modern lenses. If damaged the aluminum shows thru as a contrasting silver on black.

Silver lenses don't show wear as much. Brass lenses when worn reveal a nice brass patina but are heavy. Black lenses don't age as well but most people are careful enough it doesn't matter much. Take your pick.

Rex

ClaremontPhoto · 07-08-2006

Hang on. When I go to the silversmith to order custom earrings I discuss silver with her, and she recommends a particular grade and thickness. And she's just a one person business recently graduated from art school.

Are you saying that when I order a 'silver' lens they send me an aluminum lens painted to look like silver?

Is this common knowledge? Obviously not. Some people here thought they were getting brass, some people thought aluminum, and I thought silver.

When I ask for silver I want silver, not imitation silver.

Leica and the rest should be ashamed of this scam - if they were on eBay I would complain about misrepresentation of goods.

Thank you for alerting me.

grantray · 07-08-2006

You're joking, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Hang on. When I go to the silversmith to order custom earrings I discuss silver with her, and she recommends a particular grade and thickness. And she's just a one person business recently graduated from art school.

Are you saying that when I order a 'silver' lens they send me an aluminum lens painted to look like silver?

Is this common knowledge? Obviously not. Some people here thought they were getting brass, some people thought aluminum, and I thought silver.

When I ask for silver I want silver, not imitation silver.

Leica and the rest should be ashamed of this scam - if they were on eBay I would complain about misrepresentation of goods.

Thank you for alerting me.

visiondr · 07-08-2006

I second grantray's comment/question... you've got to be kidding!?

Ron

ClaremontPhoto · 07-08-2006

I remember being asked 'Chrome or Black?'.

Then it changed to 'Chrome or Black Chrome?'.

Now it's 'Silver or Black?'. (and Leica sometimes adds 'Black Paint' into the choices, you pay more and it wears out faster.)

If they say silver I want silver.

peter_n · 07-08-2006

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Mazurka · 07-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDK

Erwin states "The ZM lenses have aluminium mounts

I thought people were talking about the barrels, not the lens mount.