Why ZM ZF Disappeared from CameraQuest

[CameraQuest]

It's been a strange week.
On Monday I find out I am cut off from my gray market suppliers as Zeiss aims to control Zeiss products in the world marketplace. Tuesday I take down the info pages. Wed on people go nutz with often ridiculous speculation why, while I was dealing with more important issues of a family member being on stroke watch in the middle of a family reunion.

This is the statement on my site put up today.


"CameraQuest is no longer importing gray market Zeiss ZM and ZF products. Zeiss recently took over the world wide marketing of ZF and ZM from Hasselblad and is making a strong effort to eliminate gray market sales.

I am selling off remaining ZM stock at the old prices, but will not be able to get more. Deposits on not yet released products will be refunded, or credited towards something else. ZF lenses and black ZM 50/2 are already sold out. Unable to import more Zeiss, I removed the ZM and ZF info pages."

The one year CameraQuest warranty on ZM and ZF gear remains in effect.

It is not unusual at all for manufacturers / distributors to reduce gray market sellers by cutting them off from their suppliers, so this is hardly a unique situation.

Time will tell when other gray market sellers are affected by the stricter Zeiss marketplace oversight. I could have left the Zeiss info pages up, but I saw no reason to be promoting something I was just stopped from importing.

While some people made good points in the previous thread, some of the speculation I can only call garbage and is not worthy of an reply. However I did make a few suggestions to George which might result in better quality postings in the future, should George agree and decide to implement them.

Stephen Gandy

[RML]

Hear hear!

[Kyle]

Stephen,

Thats a shame to learn, but thanks for clearing it up!

BTW, I hope everything goes well with your family member.

[Hamster]

Yes Stephen you show them people at Zeiss. I totally agree with your rationale in removing the ZM ZF info page. That will serve to enlighten Zeiss marketing on the efforts and service you have done for their bottom line. I am sure the market is with you on this one.

I wish your family member speedy recovery.

[Socke]

I can understand your rationale as well, after all you have competing products to sell.
And as I've pointed out in the other thread, as a former seller of high end gear I can understand Zeiss' wish to controll distribution.

I only wish they'd acknowledge your and others reputation as sellers of fine equipment and offer an official dealership to those who tried to support the product.

[dcsang]

Thank you Stephen.

Too bad about Zeiss.
Hope that your family member gets a speedy recovery.

Dave

[tfelton]

I read this thread a little bit ago and deceided to call Popflash. I just ordered their last ZM Black 50mm. I was going to stay with the 35mm and 25mm, however, I figured prices like this would be gone soon if Hasselblad puts the screws to everyone.

Ted

[hermie]

Stephen,

Thanks for the explanation although the news is disappointing. The sad thing is that legitimate re-sellers like you will get pushed out - but the "fly-by-night" type you see on the auction sites will still somehow manage to get the grey gear!

[Flyfisher Tom]

Stephen,

Sorry to hear about your family situation, I hope for the best.

As I indicated in the other thread, I thought Zeiss' actions were shortsighted, particularly in light of your highly informative website (which in short promoted their products for free). In any event, water under the bridge.

I've always looked to you for quality CV products, and will continue to do so in the future.

Best regards,

Tom

[Peter Klein]

Stephen: Let me add my sympathies both on the family situation and the Zeiss situation. I hope your family member comes out of this OK. As for the Zeiss issue, all I can say is that you are one of the prime movers in the rangefinder world, and you deserve better.

Don't let the uninformed speculation sour you. The Internet is the Internet, and people are people. Now you've gotten the word out.

--Peter

[lmd91343]

Stephen,

I wish for the best with your family member. I hope they recover soon.

Go from strength to strength,
Lance

[Captain]

I dont remember any of the speculation as being sour, if anything it was complimentary towards CameraQuest in that most feel Zeiss have ruined the best promotion of their rangefinder equipment they are ever going to get. Any sour remarks were at Zeiss for being so short sighted.

[Socke]

Can't we just petition Zeiss to give popflash and cameraquest a dealership?

Living in germany it makes not much sense to shop in the US, but all those who did could just send a mail to Zeiss listing what they bought and with which experiences. Like fast exchange of defective items, pre- and aftersales suppert etc.pp.

This should give them a hint what they are loosing in drying up this sales chanel.

[aoresteen]

I'm sure Zeiss would love to have Camerquest & Popflash as dealers. The issue is USA pricing. Grey market pricing existed beacaue Tony & Stephen could import the products cheaper than buying as dealeres. Take the 50mm f/2 Planar. B&H sells it for $800 which is based on USA pricing yet grey market pricing was $600. The $200 price difference is significant.

Time will tell what will happen to Zeiss. I hope they survive and they need to accecept the realities of a world economy. My guess is that the Hong Kong dealers will still have product at grey market prices for quite some time.

What is Zeiss offereing to USA buyers for the higher prices? Are they going to have service centers here in the USA? When? My guess is that defective items right now are being sent back to Japan or Germany for service anyway. How about tech support? Part sales?

If I were Zeiss I would have given Cameraquest et all a years notice and after a year require them to become authorized USA dealers. This would give Zeiss a full year to get their support systems in place before pulling the plug on their best suppliers.

[Socke]

Originally Posted by aoresteen

Time will tell what will happen to Zeiss. I hope they survive and they need to accecept the realities of a world economy.

There is no doubt that Zeiss will survive. 35mm Cameras and Lenses are only a very small part of Zeiss.

Have you seen the pictures Mars Express takes? That's Zeiss glass in front of the sensor

[aoresteen]

I meant in terms of their RF & M mount products. Of course as a company they will survive but how long the ZI cameras & lenses remain on the market is the question I was addressing.

Sorry for the confusion.

[VinceC]

>>35mm Cameras and Lenses are only a very small part of Zeiss.<<

That's one of the reasons why they've always had such mixed results with their 35mm products and sales.

[Socke]

Originally Posted by aoresteen

I meant in terms of their RF & M mount products. Of course as a company they will survive but how long the ZI cameras & lenses remain on the market is the question I was addressing.

Sorry for the confusion.

I'm under the impression they have those mostly for marketing purposes. They, or better Sony, sell lots of Zeiss branded lenses with their good reputation. Some Nokia cameraphones have Zeiss lenses, too.

RF film cameras are a niche in a niche today and I don't think they expect much earnings from this venture. 3000 cameras and 9000 lenses sold is not much money for a company like Zeiss, one of their lithografic systems for computer chips is probably worth a years supply of ZI bodies and ZM lenses.

[Uncle Bill]

Family trumps wether you have access to Zeiss product. I hope your relative is making a decent recovery. I also understand on why you took down the Zeiss Ikon pages, why support a product where there is no support for you from the manufacture. You do a really good job promoting Voightlander in North America, let Carl Zeiss come to you.

Bill

[outfitter]

Zeiss and Leitz seem determined to pursue a 1950s business model of authorized dealerships. This may work in Europe but won’t work in their largest market: the USA.

Aside from the fact that they have no intention of offering the type of service and support that once justified such a system they fail to notice that there are about 95% fewer brick and mortar photo shops than there once were and the paradigm keeps shifting towards digital. Add to that the fact that price is king in the USA and discounting rampant and it is clear that these guys break the first rule of successful marketing; know your customer.

Let's face it; neither company has been particularly successful in the camera business over the past few decades. Given the fact that Zeiss ignominiously bombed in the camera business thirty years ago they lack a loyal user base and I doubt they will have the staying power of the Leica cult.

[ZeissFan]

Originally Posted by Socke

Have you seen the pictures Mars Express takes? That's Zeiss glass in front of the sensor

I thought it was a Canon kit lens.

[Huck Finn]

Originally Posted by outfitter

Zeiss and Leitz seem determined to pursue a 1950s business model of authorized dealerships. This may work in Europe but won’t work in their largest market: the USA.

Let's face it; neither company has been particularly successful in the camera business over the past few decades. Given the fact that Zeiss ignominiously bombed in the camera business thirty years ago they lack a loyal user base and I doubt they will have the staying power of the Leica cult.

Exactly what evidence do you have for discerning the Zeiss business model? According to his post, Tony Rose is still functioning as a grey market dealer for Zeiss cameras with 3 suppliers available to him.

What is the alterntive model business models that you are suggesting? Are you implying that other cameras like Nikon & Canon include great market distributors & dealers as part of their business model? Are you suggesting that they don't discourage grey market dealers?

Zeiss was never in the camera business. They are a very successful optics company. Zeiss Ikon, the camera maker which ceased production in 1974, was a different company.

[Socke]

Originally Posted by outfitter

Zeiss and Leitz seem determined to pursue a 1950s business model of authorized dealerships. This may work in Europe but won’t work in their largest market: the USA.

Largest market in items sold or money earned?

Aside from the fact that they have no intention of offering the type of service and support that once justified such a system they fail to notice that there are about 95% fewer brick and mortar photo shops than there once were and the paradigm keeps shifting towards digital. Add to that the fact that price is king in the USA and discounting rampant and it is clear that these guys break the first rule of successful marketing; know your customer.

If the customer wants the cheapest price possible and I can't produce as cheap while maintaining, probably free, aftersales service and earn a reasonable amount of money, it is best to leave this market. The reasonable amount of money would be more than interest on the money invested in the good to be sold. With current interest rates and factoring in the risk I'd expect some 8 to 10% revenue after cost before taxes.

Let's face it; neither company has been particularly successful in the camera business over the past few decades. Given the fact that Zeiss ignominiously bombed in the camera business thirty years ago they lack a loyal user base and I doubt they will have the staying power of the Leica cult.

If they want to be successfull in the camera market, i.e. significant market share, why do they offer a niche rangefinder in a niche film market?

[laverda3c]

Originally Posted by outfitter

Zeiss and Leitz seem determined to pursue a 1950s business model of authorized dealerships. This may work in Europe but won’t work in their largest market: the USA.

Do you have any facts to substantiate this statement? What is the population of the US? What is the population of the Europe? Quite a big difference in Europe's favour there.

Cheers,

Mark -%)

[NoTx]

Originally Posted by outfitter

Zeiss and Leitz seem determined to pursue a 1950s business model of authorized dealerships. This may work in Europe but won’t work in their largest market: the USA.

Er, don't most camera companies?