Stupid question: how do I load film?

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

I think I just learned the hard way that the Kiev 4 doesn't load like a modern camera. I figured I just needed to put the film on the left side, pull it out so that both of the perforation areas get on the gears, feed it around the take up spool, then wind and shoot, wind and shoot, etc. When I rewound it, it definitley doesn't seem like I was rewinding 36 exposures, more like 1, which really sucks because I took a lot of really nice shots, some I don't know if I could reproduce. So...how do I load this thing properly?
Thanks,
Richard

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

Ok, I see, I guess I have to stick the end of the film in the slot in the spool? It's nice that they make it so the slot in the spool isn't big enough. I guess it's just another reason that I carry a pocket nice now (i.e. to cut the film down to size). Is there away to get the unused film out of this canister just a little so that I can use it?
Richard

taffer · 12-12-2004

Welcome Richard ! And your question is probably the same question for all first time Kiev RF users

So far what I do is exactly that, cut the film leader so it engages in the slot from the take up spool. In fact those are not proper take up spools but (if I'm not wrong), cental spools from the original Kiev reloadable canisters.

You may go the pocket knife way (I do

) or take a look here

http://host.fptoday.com/melek/zeiss/repair/spool.html

where our fellow member Mike Elek shows how to build you own spool.

Good luck !

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

I found that link through googling actually. I'll just go the pocket knife way since I always carry one anyways, now I just have one more reason to do so. I have to admit, it's a real bummer to have not captured all those pictures I thought I did in addition to wasting a roll of film.
Richard

taffer · 12-12-2004

Ops, yes the lost roll. One thing you may try is go to your local lab and ask them to retrieve the film leader (only the leader, not the whole roll) for you. They use to have a handy tool for that.

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

Meh, I already tore it apart in disgust. It's just $3 anyways, it's just so aggravating. I'm kicking myself for this one big time. Especially since I went, hey I bet that slot is for me to stick the film into...nope, it's too small, I guess that was just part of the mold. This makes me wonder though, how do modern cameras not require one to insert the film in a slot?
Richard

taffer · 12-12-2004

Hey, the totemic Canonet with the QL system didn't require it to be inserted in a slot either, an that was on the 70's

wlewisiii · 12-12-2004

Rather than cut down the leader, I have a little piece of black rubber electicial tape to hold down the leader. I then roll the leader around the spool a time or two before putting it into its place. Then, after I've put the cover on, I turn the rewind knob so that the film it is tight. That way when I advance the film through the 2 shots to clear the fogged leader, I can be sure that the film is advancing by watching the knob turn while I'm advancing.

The main catch is to remember to stop rewinding when you feel it pull off at the end. Not only do I not want to need another piece, the lab I use gets irate if the leader ends up taped to the rest of the film in the canister ...

William

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

Well I got the prints of the second roll back from the lab, shot on agfa ultra 100. These look good, really good. Wide open may be a bit soft, but f/2.8 is really really sharp. Is the Helio-103 a worthy upgrade? This Jupiter 8M has some light scratching which doesn't seem to affect pictures but bothers me, and I can get a helios new in box. How about the sonnar 50 f/1.5?
Richard

wlewisiii · 12-12-2004

Well, if you can get a good Sonnar, grab and run. OTOH, from everything I've read the Helios sounds like a really nice lens too - that will probably be the next lens I pick up for mine unless. of course, I stumble on a low priced post-war coated collapsable 3.5 Tessar...

(Yes, I'm the house Tessar nutcase.)

The real question is what kind of shooting do you plan to do with it - do you need the speed as it were? I'm pretty fond of my 8m, but I am curious about the Helios.

William

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

I plan to do outdoor scenery and nature and buildings and cars a little, but I'd say 80% will be indoor no flash, which means I also lose a stop to an 80B filter, so yeah, I need speed. Though the helios only gains me 1/3 stop, but the fact that they can be had brand new for $50 makes it more attractive than the sonnar.
Richard

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

btw, any sources other than ebay for a sonnar?

Roman · 12-12-2004

The Jupiter-8M has slightly better bokeh, the Helios-102 is a wee bit sharper - it's your call...

Roman

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

How many blade is the helios 103? Also, will the extra 3mm of reach throw off my viewfinder accuracy?

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

And I forgot to ask, how much could I get for a jupiter 8m in good condition but with signs of wear (but still takes good pictures)?
Richard

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

Oh, and one more thing, is the helios substantially larger than the jupiter or does it just look like that in the picture?
Richard

Roman · 12-12-2004

Well, I don't think the slight difference in focal lenght will have any effect - the viewfinder is not that accurate, anyway; sizw-wise, the Helios has about the same diameter, but is slightly longer (making it a bit more difficult to close cases intended for Kiev w/ Jupiter - it is possible, but a tight fit).
For a Jupiter 8M, and not in mint condition either, you will get next to nothing (J-8Ms from the Ukraine in good condition are no more than 15 to 20 USD at most...)

Roman

marlinspike · 12-12-2004

So I guess I'll just hold onto the the 8M (I guess I'd get like $5 since I don't even have caps for it) and get the helios. If the helios is close enough in size to fit in the case it's close enough for me, since I won't be using the case, I just don't want it to be bulkier. So I guess with an 80b filter I'll have to set shutter speeds 1 stop lower than the meter says, so that extra 1/3 stop will pay off. I looked at sonnar 50 1.5's, they seem to be substantially more expensive than a helios.
So, do you know how many aperature blades the helios has? If it's 5 for just crappy bokeh then I won't get it, but if it's 8 as opposed to the Jupiter's 9 then that's still ok.

Richard

doubs43 · 12-12-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by marlinspike
So I guess I'll just hold onto the the 8M (I guess I'd get like $5 since I don't even have caps for it) and get the helios. I looked at sonnar 50 1.5's, they seem to be substantially more expensive than a helios.
So, do you know how many aperature blades the helios has? If it's 5 for just crappy bokeh then I won't get it, but if it's 8 as opposed to the Jupiter's 9 then that's still ok.
Richard

Richard, the Helios-103 has 9 blades. The Jupiter-8M also has 9 blades. The Jupiter-3 - if I count correctly - has 13 blades. They are so closely together that counting them accurately is difficult.

The Jupiter-8M and the Helios both have very good reputations and I doubt that you will find any significant difference between them. But, owning both and running them through their paces will be fun so by all means satisfy your curiosity and get the Helios!

Walker