Twitchin' for a Leica

[Steve B]

Hey everybody, I don't think I can take it anymore. I really want to own a Leica at some point in my life and it might as well be now. I currently have an R2 and a Canon 7 and like them both but want to try the much heralded Leica. I'm thinking I can sell my R2 and 7 and hopefully not have to add too much cash to get a user M6. I want an onboard meter so am wondering about the pros and cons of the TTL versus the "classic". Also love to hear about any sources that people are particularly fond of. KEH has an M6 in EX condition for $1429. I've seen a few go by on eBay for $1200 or $1300 and even less than $1000 for a user with no box, manual, etc. I'd rather buy from a reputable outfit though. Mabye I should put in a request with Stephen Gandy, he sold me both the cameras I have now. Anyone want to trade?

[Todd.Hanz]

The TTL is geared more towards flash capabilities, a "classic" is the same camera (basically) for a few hundred less. Same framelines and metering, just remember it's the lens that makes the biggest difference in your images, not the body.

Todd

[sf]

Originally Posted by Todd.Hanz

The TTL is geared more towards flash capabilities, a "classic" is the same camera (basically) for a few hundred less. Same framelines and metering, just remember it's the lens that makes the biggest difference in your images, not the body.

Todd

That's the important point - glass.

Of course, the mechanical experience of a Leica is unique. Perhaps the Ikon has longer baselength. Perhaps the CV cameras are better value in some ways. Perhaps the Canons are great value too. But the Leica mechanical perfection is what makes them worth the money. I don't own one, but I have held lots of them. My favorite ever was a MINT m3 a couple years ago. I was dumb not to buy it for $800. If you want a Leica, and don't want to spend $$$$, buy an M3 and a handheld meter. You'll get used to not having a meter around - and you'll have a totally mechanical wonder of a camera.

[kvanderlaag]

The M2 is exactly like that. I picked it up, and it just worked. No problems. Doesn't look like it's been CLA'd in a long time, either. Think it belonged to the University, so it saw lots of use. Still, no problems. You just grab it, go, and it does its job, perfectly, every time. If you can learn to live within the restraints of the camera, which aren't that many, it will serve you faithfully. This is the primary reason to own a Leica.

The glass makes the pictures. The camera makes the ease of use.

M2 was $500. I imagine the M6 would be one hell of a piece. Go for it.

[Steve B]

I have thought about getting the M2 and almost did. I use the 7 with a handheld meter and its totally feasible but one of the things I like to do is mountaineering and rock climbing. Sometimes I take a compact digital along but generally I prefer to take the R2. I have a system for keeping it pretty handy and still protected from bumps, bangs and the elements but it gets rather more complicated when you add the second device, the meter. A seperate hand held meter just isn't handy enough for vertical terrain. I know some will scoff at the idea of taking a Leica into such an environment but its not as crazy as it sounds, neither is rock climbing for that matter. Also there's a strong historical precedent for using a Leica in the mountains. It was a favorite of the Brits on their early excursions into the Himalaya.
On the subject of TTL vs. classic I'm just wondering if difficult lighting situations will be metered more accurately with the TTL. I'm sure somebody knows what the angle of sensitivity is for the non TTL meter? I generally shoot slides so would like the meter to be accurate enough for the narrower latitude.
As far as the other reasons for getting a Leica; mechanically satisfying, etc. Those are of course the real reason for the purchase. The R2 leaves pretty little room for fault as far as I'm concerned. I'm not buying a Leica because I'm not completely satisfied with the R2. Just the opposite; I'm buying a Leica because the R2 has shown me how satisfying shooting with a Rangefinder can be. But now I bet its me whose preaching to the choir!

[sf]

Originally Posted by Steve B

I have thought about getting the M2 and almost did. I use the 7 with a handheld meter and its totally feasible but one of the things I like to do is mountaineering and rock climbing. Sometimes I take a compact digital along but generally I prefer to take the R2. I have a system for keeping it pretty handy and still protected from bumps, bangs and the elements but it gets rather more complicated when you add the second device, the meter. A seperate hand held meter just isn't handy enough for vertical terrain. I know some will scoff at the idea of taking a Leica into such an environment but its not as crazy as it sounds, neither is rock climbing for that matter. Also there's a strong historical precedent for using a Leica in the mountains. It was a favorite of the Brits on their early excursions into the Himalaya.
On the subject of TTL vs. classic I'm just wondering if difficult lighting situations will be metered more accurately with the TTL. I'm sure somebody knows what the angle of sensitivity is for the non TTL meter? I generally shoot slides so would like the meter to be accurate enough for the narrower latitude.
As far as the other reasons for getting a Leica; mechanically satisfying, etc. Those are of course the real reason for the purchase. The R2 leaves pretty little room for fault as far as I'm concerned. I'm not buying a Leica because I'm not completely satisfied with the R2. Just the opposite; I'm buying a Leica because the R2 has shown me how satisfying shooting with a Rangefinder can be. But now I bet its me whose preaching to the choir!

You need the Contax t3 or Leica Minilux or Leica CM. You need a camera that can be used with one hand, without any loss of utility. A manual focus camera might not be the best choice at all.

[wlewisiii]

On the one hand, I'm tempted to tell you to get a 7 with a meter you trust instead. (yes, it is possible. I own a fairly early (based on SN) 7 that has a very accurate meter.) That would give you a camera that works exactly as you already know it will under even the harshest conditions.

Still, even with my 7, I ended up with a CL and, much to my amusement/humor/horror 3 Leica lenses (40/2, 50/2, 90/4). So what do I know? Get what you like and can afford. It took me quite a long as*ed time to get to the point where I have these 4 cameras instead of very many others. Patience is definately a virtue - if you can let yourself wait, you will _always_ find something a bit better for a bit lower price...

BTW, I have two rolls of color print in for dunking that are the first from the 50/2 collapsible. If I don't like what I see, there will be a number of ads really fast as a result. That's the other lesson - only keep what you like. If that 7 & R2 aren't succeeding it is not your job to prop them up.

On the gripping hand, want to trade that R2 for a CL with a messed up meter? Yes, I know. Gotta try anyway... <LOL>

William

[Steve B]

Manual focus is fine. I don't mind taking the time, I just don't want to juggle too many things at once. I've been climbing and shooting for 30 years and started with a Nikon FM, progressed through various other SLRs, compacts and finally got infatuated with rangefinders about 3 years ago. Auto focus, auto exposure sure are nice but I just like the rangefinder and the pleasure of its use out weighs, in most cases, the convenience of program mode. If I ever give up on rangefinders I'll probably go back to the FM. I think it might actually be lighter than the 7.
Speaking of which; how does the M6 compare in size, weight and feel to the R2 and/or the 7?

[Steve B]

.
On the gripping hand, want to trade that R2 for a CL with a messed up meter? Yes, I know. Gotta try anyway... <LOL>

Hey no problem asking but like I said, I want an M6. Short of that I'll keep the R2. Unless I can find the money for an M7. AE wouldn't ruffle my morals one bit. Haven't in the past anyway.

William[/quote]


If that 7 & R2 aren't succeeding it is not your job to prop them up.

The trouble is that the R2 and the 7 are great. I just want a Leica. The justification list is pretty short here, I'm afraid. The R2 particularly does exactly what I want it to do on climbing trips and my favorite pics are consistently from this camera as its light, handy and easy to have along. I've found that its pretty hard to come home with a pic you like when you decided that a camera was too big to take along in the first place.

[quote=wlewisiii]On the one hand, I'm tempted to tell you to get a 7 with a meter you trust instead. (yes, it is possible. I own a fairly early (based on SN) 7 that has a very accurate meter.) That would give you a camera that works exactly as you already know it will under even the harshest conditions.

The meter on the 7 does seem to work pretty well in daylight situations but I really like viewfinder info and sometimes in harsh light a slight adjustment in camera angle can mean a stop or so in either direction. Also the camera is a little bigger than I'd like, other than that I really really like it.

[Dougg]

Originally Posted by Steve B

On the subject of TTL vs. classic I'm just wondering if difficult lighting situations will be metered more accurately with the TTL. I'm sure somebody knows what the angle of sensitivity is for the non TTL meter? I generally shoot slides so would like the meter to be accurate enough for the narrower latitude.

Hi Steve -- This TTL nomenclature is deceptive; in this instance it refers only to an ability to measure flash metering through the lens. Both the M6 Classic and M6 TTL have through the lens metering for ambient light.

Good luck on your Leica shopping spree!

[ClaremontPhoto]

Originally Posted by Steve B

On the subject of TTL vs. classic I'm just wondering if difficult lighting situations will be metered more accurately with the TTL.

The TTL is only flash TTL, not daylight.

If you don't use flash the M6 is just as good as the M6TTL.

Edit: Dougg just said the same thing while I was typing.

[lubitel]

I know what its like to be "twitching for a leica"! I've been twitching for 5 years now. Hope you get your M6.

[PeterL]

Hi Steve,

Don't overestimate the hassle of carrying a handheld meter. Measure the light before you start the ascent and then you don't need to meter anymore except if the light really changes. Even if it becomes overcast, you can adjust 2 stops and happily shoot away. I had never done it this way until 2 months ago, and now I'm already used to it. I hardly use a light meter anymore, except if it's getting pretty dark. I don't shoot slide, though.

The camera I currently use is a Zorki and, with a Gordy wrist strap, I use it single handed. Twisting the wind knob just works, focusing just works and that's it. No fiddling with unnecessary buttons. I've done some wall climbing myself and I would imagine that's quite practical. The strap is practical for extra support while winding and focusing, but it's a bit difficult to get it on and off. But do check if you can work with a single hand with the camera you're intent on buying before you hand over the cash. For mountaineering, I'd advise you to get recent lenses, because you're sure to encounter plenty of situations where the light is beautiful but the flare would be impossible to control with older lenses.


Peter.

[Will]

Originally Posted by kvanderlaag

The M2 is exactly like that. I picked it up, and it just worked.

Agree, it fit in your hands the first time...

Just like a Leica R6.2 or Nikon F3 or a FM2 for that matter...


Comparing it with a Canon 7s, the M2 just feels right and the 7s surely can do with some improvement (make it samller? smoother? tighter?)


OT: Handled a IIIG resently, would be great with a light standard lens

[Steve B]

Originally Posted by Dougg

Hi Steve -- This TTL nomenclature is deceptive; in this instance it refers only to an ability to measure flash metering through the lens. Both the M6 Classic and M6 TTL have through the lens metering for ambient light.

Good luck on your Leica shopping spree!

OK, this is new to me and extremely helpful. Thanks also to Jon for the same info. I never use flash with my rangefinder so will now give up any thoughts of the TTL.
Thanks to everybody for all the input. I'll be looking for a chrome M6 if anybody wants to sell or sees a particularly good deal around. Thanks,,,,,,,