What's wrong with my FED-2?

[derevaun]

I've gotten some flare-like stuff on occasional, but not all, shots, like the one below. The sun was at my back and the exposure was good enough for color print film :P It doesn't extend beyond the frame--i.e., it's not in between frames or in the sprocket hole area. It's always on the right of the scene.

First guess is a light leak, but I held the camera up to the sun (lens off) and looked through the shutter curtain from both sides, shutter cocked and not, and I can't see any pinholes. Doesn't mean they're not there, but is it possible that sometimes the shutter doesn't close properly causing a light leak like that?

Thanks for any insights!

[Dougg]

If it were the shutter, I'd think it would be an even progression of density change toward the one end. But yours looks uneven vertically. How about something shiny between the lens and shutter reflecting stray light onto the film? Or perhaps inside the lens... Some here have mentioned black paint flaking off the outer edges of lens elements.

[ZorkiKat]

Is this a newly-acquired FED-2? That sort of fogging looks very much what happens when light breaches the light baffles (those metal thingies seen through the throat of the camera when the lens is removed) and passes through the edges of the curtains. When the baffles aren't properly seated, they won't be able to block light effectively.

The baffles in the FED-2, as well as the earlier FED-1 and Zorki-1, and likewise even the early II and III (pre IIIc) Leicas weren't too effective. Even when properly installed, they would often still let light to breach when changing lenses.

Jay

[derevaun]

I can't be sure, but I think the leaks happened while I was walking around between shots without a lens cap. When I took several at a time, there's no defect on the shots.

The camera is a regular Ebay find; it probably hasn't been cleaned recently (it's not very smooth winding).

Thanks for the ideas!

[pvdhaar]

Originally Posted by derevaun

I've gotten some flare-like stuff on occasional, but not all, shots, like the one below. The sun was at my back and the exposure was good enough for color print film :P It doesn't extend beyond the frame--i.e., it's not in between frames or in the sprocket hole area. It's always on the right of the scene.

First guess is a light leak, but I held the camera up to the sun (lens off) and looked through the shutter curtain from both sides, shutter cocked and not, and I can't see any pinholes. Doesn't mean they're not there, but is it possible that sometimes the shutter doesn't close properly causing a light leak like that?

I've seen this very same effect on some of the shots on my FED1 as well. Doesn't happen all the time, only on shots where there's a lot of white sky. Until Jay's post, I hadn't got a clue about what could be wrong..

At first I thought it was due to the curtains not being completely opaque, but then ruled that out as it was only present on some shots and not all.

After that I figured it was due to light leaking while cocking the shutter, so I started advancing with a lens cap on (as if it were an O-series Leica). But that didn't make a difference.

My third guess was that it's due to the shutter speeds I was using. I have the FED set to 1/25 indoors, and 1/100 or faster outdoors. This also can't really be the case, because of exactly as Doug says, I'd see an even density change.

I'm really curious whether you can diagnose the problem on your camera, so I'd have a pointer on where to fix mine as well..

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by derevaun

I can't be sure, but I think the leaks happened while I was walking around between shots without a lens cap. When I took several at a time, there's no defect on the shots.

The camera is a regular Ebay find; it probably hasn't been cleaned recently (it's not very smooth winding).

Thanks for the ideas!

It has happened to one of my FED-1.. The lens likewise wasn't even removed, but some of the frames in the roll showed similar fogging marks. The lens on the camera was a modest-apertured I-22. Camera had been lugged outdoors with lens uncapped under bright noontime sunlight. Fogging wasn't seen in all the frames- only on the ones which stayed long enough in the gate between shots.

The light leakage was fixed by repositioning (and a bit of reshaping) of the bottom shutter baffle.

As you will see in the attached photo, the fogging marks also run in the same orientation, that is from the sides of the frame. The fogging runs almost as wide as the frame and almost the entire length of the picture- its the lighter field veiling almost everything in the frame. BTW, the photo is hand-coloured.

[fabrice]

Don't know if it cheers a bit, but I find your bald eagle very interesting like that.
Some sort of "ancient look", you see ?

Anyway, zorkikat, I'd be pleased to know how, exactly, you do to "hand-colour" your prints ?

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by fabrice

Don't know if it cheers a bit, but I find your bald eagle very interesting like that.
Some sort of "ancient look", you see ?

Anyway, zorkikat, I'd be pleased to know how, exactly, you do to "hand-colour" your prints ?

That's exactly my impression with what the fog did to the picture. It gave an 'aged' effect, a sort of imperfection associated with ancient photographs. Adding the colour by hand heightened the effect more.

For the example I attached in a previous post, the colours were applied to the print in a manner most similar to working with a colouring-book. In this example, I used McCormicks food dyes, diluted well enough so that colours can be built up with multiple washes. Application was by brush. The print was an ordinary RA-4 colour print (same sort made by 1 hour labs) and the image was from a black and white negative.

In the past, when they were more available, I used real black and white prints on fibre-based paper or sometimes even RC/PE coated papers. The prints were often toned sepia first (the brownish image received the colours better than a 'straight' grey-toned image) before the colours were applied. For colours, I used several- ranging from "Peerless" transparent water colours (dyes in water, this product dates from the late 19th century and still made today) to Marshall's Photo-oil colours. The method of colouring depended on the medium used: water colours were applied by brush on a wet print, in thin washes of colour. Oils were applied with cotton swabs- and rubbed on the print. Even food colours can be used, but these aren't very permanent.

The example I showed was coloured 4 years ago; the original has since faded, and its scan is the only proof of how it looked when fresh. Any colouring material which is transparent (to allow the photographic image beneath to show through) may be used- be it 'wet' like the water or oil colours- or 'dry' like colour pencils or pens. Peerless and Marshalls oils are rather permanent.

Jay

[derevaun]

That nails it down. Thanks! And I love that hand colored shot--works well with the light leak. I've done similar stuff in Photoshop with Holga shots, but the organic process wins hands down.

[Spyderman]

The hand colored picture is just wonderful.

Back to the original question: based on the replies, I guess it would be best to:
a) use lens cap whenjust walking around with the camera on neck. Problem is that this slows your response, and you would often find empty (=unexposed) frames on the film.
b) add some baffles to the inside of the camera (what's it called? on a SLR it would be the mirror box, but on a RF... ?) just in front of the shutter guides

[DaveP]

Those light leaks look exactly the same as i experienced with my Zorki 1. What i found was that my fingernail was brushing the shutter speed dial as it spins. I put on a soft release and it hasnt happened since.

[derevaun]

You know, Dave, I remember reading about that and I can't totally rule out the finger-on-the-shutter-speed-dial thing. But I do remember thinking about trying to avoid doing that a couple times during the roll, so I'm just not sure. I think it's time for a test roll. Thanks for the suggestions!

[pvdhaar]

Originally Posted by DaveP

Those light leaks look exactly the same as i experienced with my Zorki 1. What i found was that my fingernail was brushing the shutter speed dial as it spins. I put on a soft release and it hasnt happened since.

Similar experience here. There's a collar around the shutter release that spins during exposure. On some of the first shots I made with the FED, I felt that I forestalled the even running of the shutter that way. Here's a scan of the effect (which by the way is also plagued by the take up spool not being pushed in correctly..). You can see that the left hand side is completely over exposed because of the shutter stalling halfway..

[pvdhaar]

Oh, forgot to mention..

The uneven running of the shutter looks decidedly different from the flare like problems which Jay indicates are related to the baffles. I've got blown out regions in the lower left corner of the image, which corresponds to the upper right part of the frame in the camera.. As said, it happens when there's a lot of contrast or bright sky..

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by pvdhaar

Oh, forgot to mention..

The uneven running of the shutter looks decidedly different from the flare like problems which Jay indicates are related to the baffles. I've got blown out regions in the lower left corner of the image, which corresponds to the upper right part of the frame in the camera.. As said, it happens when there's a lot of contrast or bright sky..

Peter

There could be a light leak elsewhere (such as where the top plate joins the body shell, or from a loose stripped screw). Does the fogging extend beyond the picture area, and into the film sprockets?

It could be that there's a shiny part inside the camera which lost its flat black flocking?

Below are some "fog"/shutter defect examples:

Photo-1: ordinary flaring when lens is struck by light.
Photo-2: flare relieved by using a lens hood on the lens.
Photo-3: uneven exposure from faulty shutter travel
Photo-4: fog spots from holes in the shutter.
Photo-5: black area caused by shutter capping (shutter blinds close before reaching other end of frame.

[ZorkiFan]

That eagle picture is awsome, light leaks or not. I thought it was taken indoors and the flare areas were just light coming in a window. Drop the brightness and raise the contrast a tad, and I would have sworn that was window light.

I'm learning more what to look for as far as problems too, cool

[pvdhaar]

Originally Posted by ZorkiKat

Peter

There could be a light leak elsewhere (such as where the top plate joins the body shell, or from a loose stripped screw). Does the fogging extend beyond the picture area, and into the film sprockets?

It could be that there's a shiny part inside the camera which lost its flat black flocking?

Below are some "fog"/shutter defect examples:

Photo-1: ordinary flaring when lens is struck by light.
Photo-2: flare relieved by using a lens hood on the lens.
Photo-3: uneven exposure from faulty shutter travel
Photo-4: fog spots from holes in the shutter.
Photo-5: black area caused by shutter capping (shutter blinds close before reaching other end of frame.

Hi Jay,

thanks again for the further pointers! There is indeed one screw missing on the front just under the left RF window. I had not assumed that this might be a problem, but I'll check this out..

[pvdhaar]

Originally Posted by pvdhaar

Hi Jay,

thanks again for the further pointers! There is indeed one screw missing on the front just under the left RF window. I had not assumed that this might be a problem, but I'll check this out..

Sure enough, when I took off the lens, I could see that through the hole missing the screw a light was cast on the shutter curtain. I just don't know why I hadn't though of that before.
Anyway, I've put a screw in there, and the problem seems gone. Thanks again to Jay for diagnosing this from a continent away..

[indridi]

I'm probably having the same problem, started a new thread here on how it should/could be fixed.

Indriði

[fidget]

Just for info, as I see that you have solved these problems......the light ingress shown in derevaun's picture in the original post looks a lot like something I noticed on a few of my FSU cams. I posted about this, but can't find the thread right now. As the marks are caused on the far LHS of the gate, it could be worth checking that when the shutter is cocked, and the curtains move, that no light gets between the metal strips as it moves. You will notice that the curtains creep together as the shutter is cocked, any mis-alignment of replacement curtains or, most common, slightly bent metal strips can allow light through just where the overlap is smallest, at the beginning of the wind.
Try it by looking at a bright light with the lens off, whilst winding on, you could have a surprize. I now try, as a habit, not to wind on with the lens uncovered or pointing at a bright source.
Dave....

Edit, I just noticed how old this thread is, guess it's history now.