You're on a train trip...

bmattock · 11-07-2003

Hypothetical:

You're taking a train trip on Amtrak - cross-country. The trip will be about 24 hours long. You've booked a sleeper cabin on the way to your destination, but you're stuck in a coach seat on the way back.

You can bring a couple of rangefinders, lenses, flash, and film with you. You anticipate taking some shots of the train interior, train stations along the way (interior and exterior), people you meet on the train, perhaps some scenery and landscapes take from the observation deck and when the train has short layovers.

What would you bring? Why? What kind of shots will you look for? B&W or color?

I'll bet you can guess why I'm asking, but I'm really interested in your opinions and your experience.

I appreciate your playing along on this!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

back alley · 11-07-2003

one camera & one lens.
b&w film, maybe ilford delta 400 or 3200.

in my case, a mamiya 6 with normal lens & delta 3200.

i keep my eyes open for anything good, people, designs, lighting.

joe

Rich Silfver · 11-07-2003

Camera body: Any.
Lens: Since I would be inside a fairly small space I can see the need for a wider angle lens for some shots (say something around 28mm on a 35mm camera), but I would also want something a little longer for details or candids - say a second lens at around 85-105 for that. Sceneries, train station shots, documentary images - I love the standard 50mm lens perspective for that. So one of those as well please :-)

My 'dream equipment' for this would be:
* One camera body taking interchangeable lenses
* One 28, one 50 and one 90 mm lens (lenses as fast as possible).
* Bunch of 400 speed b&w film and being ready to having to push a few a full stop to 800 when needed.
* Tabletop tripod

lars · 11-08-2003

Trains are very narrow so for interior shots, I'd go for a 21mm and a 50mm and two bodies.

For scenics, a 35mm and 50mm or 35mm and 75-100mm with two bodies.

A small flash for fill would also come in handy. Given the length of the cars, I wouldn't consider trying to use a flash to illuminate it simply because of the great depth that would lead to uneven exposure.

Even though I am quite enjoying my rangefinder, I must admit that for travel, it's hard for me to give up the idea of hauling my SLR along. For our upcoming trip to Hawaii, I was planning on bringing my Bessa R and 35/50/75 lenses and my Minolta Maxxum 7 and 24-50 and 70-210 lenses. But the more I think about it, I think I should leave the RF at home. I don't think the RF's benefit of small size and unobtrusiveness will be of much value.

...lars

rover · 11-08-2003

I did the same thing lars, Bessa came with me, but my Canon got all the work.

On a train though for a long period of time, where I would need something small and simple, I would Canonet.

Doug · 11-09-2003

Good for you, Rover! Resist the seductive call of the SLR with two zooms! If it's attractive for this stated use, then when is it not? It's a different style of shooting.

I think I'd take a Minolta CLE with its 40mm Rokkor. Then, what film...

The train trip brings me back to 1960, travel Seattle to Chicago by Northern Pacific, then switch to New York Central for Chicago to Syracuse. And back the other way, two round-trips that year for school.

Lonnnnnng boring trips... coach, no sleeper. I didn't have a camera then, so I'm going back over dim memories for photo opportunities.

I don't recall getting off the train at intermediate stops, so not sure of the possibilities there. Of course there's the other travelers on the train and in the terminals. As to scenery, nearby objects tend to blur horizontally with the train's motion (which I remember from pics taken later on a train from Paris to Brussels).

I did like to ride on the obsevation deck, but I don't recall if the plexiglas or whatever was amenable to photography...

bmattock · 11-09-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by rsilfverberg
* Tabletop tripod

Ah, brilliant! I didn't even think of that one! Thanks! Any particular brand or type?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 11-09-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by lars
Trains are very narrow so for interior shots, I'd go for a 21mm and a 50mm and two bodies.

Good point! Do you think a 19mm (on an SLR) would be too wide? What about a fish-eye? Some new perspective, perhaps?

Quote:

A small flash for fill would also come in handy. Given the length of the cars, I wouldn't consider trying to use a flash to illuminate it simply because of the great depth that would lead to uneven exposure.

What would you call a 'small' flash? I've only got a Vivitar 285HV, probably a tad big, eh? But I can dial the power way down and use a diffuser...your thoughts?

Quote:

But the more I think about it, I think I should leave the RF at home. I don't think the RF's benefit of small size and unobtrusiveness will be of much value.

People shots on the train? Night shots? Just curious as to your thoughts on this...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 11-09-2003

Thanks for all the responses!

As you probably guessed, my wife and I are taking a train trip - the Southwest Chief, from Albuquerque to Chicago, around Christmas-time. I blew a lot of frequent flier miles on family members and waited too long to book travel for us, now prices are a bit dear and no frequent flier tickets left during those dates.

But on a lark, I checked the Amtrak web page and found a decent price on a round-trip for two - sleeper car on the way there, but unfortunately, only coach on the way back. Well, something might open up, we can keep checking back. But if it turns out to be just coach coming back, we'll be ok, it's only 24 hours...(famous last words).

I'm taking my Bronica C's to Chicago to get family holiday portaits, but I think I'll ship it ahead instead of schlepping it on the train. For the trip, I was initially thinking of taking a Canon FD-body SLR and a couple of lenses, but of course there has to be a rangefinder or two in there somehow!

Perhaps an Olympus XA for candids in the train - simple, unobtrusive, looks 'amateur' so it would probably not make people paranoid. A Canonet or my new Minolta 7S would round out the system, I think. But dang it, I've just finished collecting all the lenses for the Braun Paxette system! Decisions, decisions.

BTW, I'm in Wilson, North Carolina tonight - with a newly-aquired Ricoh 519M (never saw the 'M' model before, cool), and a Paxette with a couple of lenses. I wish it wasn't getting dark so early these days - no time to go out shooting after work.

Anyway, I appreciate all the ideas and opinions, and please, if you have others, keep 'em coming! I've got a month to figure this thing out...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 11-09-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Doug
I did like to ride on the obsevation deck, but I don't recall if the plexiglas or whatever was amenable to photography...

Will a polarizer work through plexiglas?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

lars · 11-09-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by bmattock
Good point! Do you think a 19mm (on an SLR) would be too wide? What about a fish-eye? Some new perspective, perhaps?

I think anything in that range (including 19mm) would be quite useful on a train.

Quote:

What would you call a 'small' flash? I've only got a Vivitar 285HV, probably a tad big, eh? But I can dial the power way down and use a diffuser...your thoughts?

I love the Vivitar 283 and 285 flashes but I was just thinking about something small, like this:

It's a Sunpak 1400M, specs can be found here: http://www.tocad.com/flash/1400m.html

Very gutless but perfect for a small rangefinder. I was given one many years ago and last night I dug it out to try it with my Bessa R. It worked pretty well and nicely complements the Bessa's size. On the train, I think there would be lots of opportunity for interesting side lighting for people photos so I would avoid flash for the most part. But it would be nice to use to illuminate someone in the train car while also exposing for the bright scenery flashing by. But since you'll very likely be close to your subject, all you need is a small flash.

Quote:

People shots on the train? Night shots? Just curious as to your thoughts on this...

See the last paragraph.

...lars

mfs · 11-10-2003

How about (new purchase, of course) a Ricoh 1V. This is a compact camera with a great lens.
Perfect for small spaces, and dim lighting. Ricoh does not export to the US, but this camera is available from Camera Traders in New York (gray market), and Robert White in the UK. Check out their web sites for more info, and pricing.
Thre is also a 28 mm version. Also a good choice albeit with a longer focal length lens
Martin

oftheherd · 11-10-2003

Remember that whatever you take is going to have to go with you everywhere on the train or you and your wife can't go places (like observation deck, train station, dining car). Otherwise you are fair game for any thiefs onboard.

For that reason, I would take an SLR with the basics of 18mm to about 150mm or 210mm covered by zooms. I would take my FX103P with dedicated flash (GN20 or so), and maybe a 50mm and TC. If I had a Canonet it would perhaps go too. I would have both color and b/w film and the tabletop tripod (any small one that is sufficiently sturdy. That would hopefully all fit in a small/medium sized camera bag.

I have 3 zooms that cover from 18mm to 150mm, TC and small flash, and tabletop tripod. If for some reason I had to carry only primes, I would probably go with a Fujica ST901 and an 18mm lor 24mm ens, 50mm f/1.4, 135mm and TC. I might also take a P&S I have.

Just me.

Picture Guy · 11-10-2003

You have two tasks here: 1 ) Get the really neat inside shots of friends and other tourists and 2) you need to reach out and zoom that great scenery flashing by.

Task 1) For this would carry my Bessa R 2 with 35mm and 50 mm for inside train and platform shots. Plus a small clip on flash.

Task 2) I would also carry Pentax SLR with 75-210 zoom with 400mm slide film.

You probably want a super wide for inside shots, for me that’s a 24mm Pentax SLR lens. You may have a great RF lens.

A small point and shoot is lightweight insurance.

Also,

1) Don’t forget the polarizer for SLR lenses.

2) Remember that Auto focus won’t shoot through glass unless you got override.

3) Need scads of spare batteries and film.
A point and shoot is cheap back up insurance.

4) You might want some way to clean the inside of glass. Windex makes a handy packet of pre-moistened towelettes.

bmattock · 11-10-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by lars
I love the Vivitar 283 and 285 flashes but I was just thinking about something small, like this:

Very nice, thanks for the recommendation!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 11-10-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by mfs
How about (new purchase, of course) a Ricoh 1V. This is a compact camera with a great lens.
Perfect for small spaces, and dim lighting. Ricoh does not export to the US, but this camera is available from Camera Traders in New York (gray market), and Robert White in the UK. Check out their web sites for more info, and pricing.
Thre is also a 28 mm version. Also a good choice albeit with a longer focal length lens
Martin

I'm sure the Ricoh would be a great choice, but that's a bit out of my price range. I came really close to buying on at B&H when I was in NYC a year or so ago, but I decided to pass for now. It's on the 'wish list' but won't be happening anytime soon!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 11-10-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by oftheherd
Remember that whatever you take is going to have to go with you everywhere on the train or you and your wife can't go places (like observation deck, train station, dining car). Otherwise you are fair game for any thiefs onboard.

Excellent point! However, on the way out, we'll be in a sleeper, which I believe can be locked. In any case, safety is always a good idea!

Quote:

For that reason, I would take an SLR with the basics of 18mm to about 150mm or 210mm covered by zooms. I would take my FX103P with dedicated flash (GN20 or so), and maybe a 50mm and TC. If I had a Canonet it would perhaps go too. I would have both color and b/w film and the tabletop tripod (any small one that is sufficiently sturdy. That would hopefully all fit in a small/medium sized camera bag.

I have several FD-body Canons - and I just won an eBay auction for a Vivitar Series 1 90mm 2.5 - can't wait to try it out!

Quote:

I have 3 zooms that cover from 18mm to 150mm, TC and small flash, and tabletop tripod. If for some reason I had to carry only primes, I would probably go with a Fujica ST901 and an 18mm lor 24mm ens, 50mm f/1.4, 135mm and TC. I might also take a P&S I have.

Just me.

I appreciate it! I'm figuring to take a Canon SLR body with 19mm, 28mm, 50mm, 90mm, and my Vivitar Series 1 80-210. With a decent doubler, that should cover just about any range I can think of encountering on a train!

Still not sure what to bring with me for a rangefinder, though.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 11-10-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Picture Guy
You have two tasks here: 1 ) Get the really neat inside shots of friends and other tourists and 2) you need to reach out and zoom that great scenery flashing by.

Agreed!

Quote:

Task 1) For this would carry my Bessa R 2 with 35mm and 50 mm for inside train and platform shots. Plus a small clip on flash.

Do you have a recommendation on a favorite small flash?

Quote:

Task 2) I would also carry Pentax SLR with 75-210 zoom with 400mm slide film.

I'm guessing you meant ISO 400 film?

Quote:

You probably want a super wide for inside shots, for me that’s a 24mm Pentax SLR lens. You may have a great RF lens.

A small point and shoot is lightweight insurance.

Also,

1) Don’t forget the polarizer for SLR lenses.

I've got a digital Olympus D-40Z for my 'point-n-shoot'!

Quote:

2) Remember that Auto focus won’t shoot through glass unless you got override.

Not a problem, I haven't got anything that auto-focusses, except for my digital!

Quote:

3) Need scads of spare batteries and film.
A point and shoot is cheap back up insurance.

Hehehe, my cameras are so old, no batteries required! Lots of film for sure...

Quote:

4) You might want some way to clean the inside of glass. Windex makes a handy packet of pre-moistened towelettes.

Ah, another excellent point! I hadn't thought of that, either! Thanks!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

lars · 11-10-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Picture Guy
2) Remember that Auto focus won’t shoot through glass unless you got override.

That only applies to some autofocus cameras. Cameras that use ir beams like many P&S cameras have trouble with glass. Obviously, cameras with sonic focusing systems will also have trouble but the only one I can think of with such a system is the old Polaroid cameras (forget the model name(s)). Virtually all AF SLRs can shoot through glass w/o problems unless the glass is extremely filthy.

Quote:

4) You might want some way to clean the inside of glass. Windex makes a handy packet of pre-moistened towelettes.

That's an excellent idea.

...lars

Picture Guy · 11-11-2003

As to a clip on flash, I have an old Vivitar I bought at Walmart for $20.

It is a low end but has thyristor (sp?)

I see a LOT of similiar flashes at pawn shops.

Thanks for the update on AF SLRs and shooting through glass. You can tell I have been slumming with low end P & S!

Yup I meant ISO 400 !

rovnguy · 11-11-2003

Without a doubt I would pack a brace of XA's and a few rolls of Fuji CZ Press (ISO 800) and some 400 speed B&W.

lars · 11-11-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Picture Guy
As to a clip on flash, I have an old Vivitar I bought at Walmart for $20.

It is a low end but has thyristor (sp?)

I see a LOT of similiar flashes at pawn shops.

This weekend I had an opportunity to use that cheapo flash unit I was talking about. Sun was almost setting so I had a bright background but dark foreground. Plopped the flash onto my Bessa R, set it to manual and adjusted the f-stop as per the chart.

The nice thing about this particular flash is that it consistently underexposes by 1-stop (in auto and manual modes) which is how I like it, anyway.

...lars

bmattock · 11-12-2003

Outstanding use of outdoor flash, thanks for sharing! I will be looking around for a smaller flash similar to yours for my upcoming train trip!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Rich Silfver · 08-28-2004

What happened to the train trip Bill?

Would love to see some photos but they may already be posted and I missed/can't remember. Would also love to hear what equipment you ended up using, how it worked, what you would have done differently, etc.

RML · 08-29-2004

I took the Transsiberia Express from Moscow to Ulaanbaatar and Beijing a few years back.

Let me tell you that 5 days in a train (Moscow-UB takes 5 days; UB-Beijing is another day and a half) gives you very few opportunities and subjects to shoot. Only at the stations I had a few minutes for shooting, the rest of the 10-15 minutes on the station was usually used up by haggling over the price of food and drink, stretching my legs, and relaxing a bit. Riding a train for so long is like sailing a ship: you'll lust after some solid ground after a while.

Of course I shot inside the train as well (though I only had a Canon Eos at that time) but the number of subjects is rather limited.
And the few out wasn't much to talk about either. At night you don't see a thing as you're riding through sparsely inhabited areas (and it's dark). During the day the scenery doesn't change much as the plains of Russia offer very little noticeable variation.

I'll ride the train from UB to Beijing and back in a few months again, and I'm already looking forward to using my RF cameras.

So small and inconspicious, with a 25mm attached, and loaded with iso400 film... I should be able to get some nice candids (if I'm not too shy).