IIIc with quirks

jonasv · 03-06-2006

I've never owned or used a barnack Leica before, but I really love how they look. I am not a camera collector - I have a Nikon SLR and now a Bessa rangefinder kit, both are meant to be as functional as possible. I "work" for the university paper (possibly some other local papers in the future as well) and that's why I've always put functionality in the first place. However, I find myself longing for a camera to use when I'm not working, when I just want to enjoy taking pictures and sort of 'getting back to basics'. I enjoy taking pictures with any camera, but, I think the people in this particular forum of all places, will understand what I mean.

I have the opportunity to buy a Leica IIIc with Summitar 50/2 collapsible "on the cheap" (both from 1939, a quick search told me). I couldn't afford this little kit if it were in excellent shape, so yes, there are some quirks. I was wondering if you barnack-connoisseurs could tell me something about them and whether or not they can be fixed - perhaps with an estimated price which includes fixing and a CLA? I really have no idea. The problems are as following...

The seller had the shutter serviced last year (in march), for €75. Now, the shutter is too "hard", and the sound is not entirely as it should be, according to an expert (someone who was going to buy it from him, but backed out because of this). A second problem is that the finder is supposedly too fuzzy/hard to focus.

The seller seems like a very honest guy, and I can see him and the camera before making my decision. I thought I'd ask for some information in advance, because it's hard to judge for me, never having handled a barnack Leica. So I'm asking if it would be possible to repair these quirks, and how much that would cost.

Perhaps someone could give me an estimate how much I should offer for that IIIc with the Summitar included, considering it's faults and that it will need a repair? Below is a photo the seller sent me.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Brian Sweeney · 03-06-2006

If the shutter is "too Hard", it has been overtensioned. Fairly simple adjustment for a technician. Can't tell about the finder until you look through it. That can run some serious money. The lens alone goes for $125~$175.

I would pass on it unless you can inspect the finder. Or figure over $200 for repair/CLA. A fully-functiona;, just CLA'd camera with lens is in the $500 range.

jonasv · 03-06-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney

If the shutter is "too Hard", it has been overtensioned. Fairly simple adjustment for a technician. Can't tell about the finder until you look through it. That can run some serious money. The lens alone goes for $125~$175.

I would pass on it unless you can inspect the finder. Or figure over $200 for repair/CLA. A fully-functiona;, just CLA'd camera with lens is in the $500 range.

Thanks Brian. I can inspect the camera before purchasing, so I guess it'll just come down to his asking price...

Branestawm · 03-06-2006

The lens serial number is correct for 1939 but the camera looks like a post war model. Earlier ones had the rewind release lever on a little step on the top plate and a knob on the dioptre adjustment lever. Is the "fuzzy" finder actually the finder or the rangefinder? The finder can fog with age and a service will cure this. If the problem is with the rangefinder then the semi-silvered mirror may have lost its coating. I recently had one replaced by Malcolm Taylor on a partially dismantled IIIf a cost about £50. Ask the seller if he has used the camera. The shutter blinds can develop light leaks. Replacement is not a huge job as part of a service but things soon add up. Dealer prices in the UK for useable IIIC's are in the £200-£300 price range and around £150 -£200 for the lens. Worth a look but check the cost of servicing first.

jonasv · 03-06-2006

Thanks for that information. From the sellers description, I think the viewfinder may be foggy and the semisilvered mirror may have lost it's coating. On a positive note, he's willing to let go of camera and lens together for € 200 which seems a very nice price, especially if the lens is in the condition he describes it as. I will try to meet up with him, and then I can see from there... € 200 does seem very fair, no?

Could you please elaborate on the model type/serial number inconsistency? Is this a common thing? The camera bodies s/n starts with 50xxxx (as well as the lens) and the chart I found dates this back to 1939 as well.

Gordon Coale · 03-06-2006

Another option for getting work done on your IIIc is to send it to Oleg. He quotes $70 for a CLA for old Leicas and another $6 for new shutter curtains. He is in Russia but he is *very*reliable. I had my IIIc done by him and it actually came to $60 with new shutter curtains. It came back smooth as silk. Other RFFers have had their Barnack Leicas, FEDs, and Zorkis done by him.

jonasv · 03-06-2006

Well, considering the price of the camera and lens together, I don't think I have much to loose - thanks for the information gordon, that definitely looks very attractive now.

ffttklackdedeng · 03-06-2006

A body with a serial number of 5xxxxx would mean it's from 1950-52 (for the lens, you might be right regarding the year)

good luck on whichever choice,
Robert

scigeek · 03-06-2006

Hi,

Newbie here - I thought I'd jump into this thread because I do have a passion for 111c's (well, my 111c anyway!).

The camera is almost certainly post-war - not that that makes any difference to how it functions. These cameras are great.

I'd be a little suspicious that the shutter-only was serviced. Why not a full CLA?

Great forum people.
jvx, go for it - you won't be disappointed!
david

jonasv · 03-06-2006

Aha - I guess I entered the bodies serial number in the lens' s/n chart. Thanks for the heads-up!

Branestawm · 03-07-2006

The lens on its own is worth the asking price and from the photo the body looks in good shape. Post war IIIc's are known to suffer from problems with flaking chrome plating but this view doesn't seem to show any. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Mike Kovacs · 03-09-2006

If the shutter was serviced, it sounds like the typical rip-off service many people get. Rather than fixing the actual problem (e.g. stiff curtains, gears that need to be cleaned, old lubricant, etc), the tech has simply increased the spring tension to compensate for the extra drag.

The shutter will eventually fail, and its not good for springs to be overtensioned. Oleg can make it right.

I don't think there's anything that is not straigtforward to fix with a Barnack viewfinder/rangefinder. Worse case is replacing the beam splitter mirror. Its the Leica M's where you can get into trouble.

flashover · 03-09-2006

I love my IIIc. They view finder is bright and clear, the RF can be a little dim but not bad. There are bargins to be had I have 310 invested in mine. Body on RFF 150.00, Lens ebay 150.oo, finder local unclaimed frieght auction 10.00 The camera works like a charm was CLA'ed by previous owner.

Gabriel M.A. · 03-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashover

I love my IIIc. <snip> There are bargins to be had I have 310 invested in mine. Body on RFF 150.00, Lens ebay 150.oo, finder local unclaimed frieght auction 10.00

Decisive Moments taken with it...Priceless

Ronald M · 03-09-2006

I just got a cherry 111c. It needed curtains and a cla, but it runs perfectly now.

It had spent 55 years in a case.

scigeek · 03-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald M

I just got a cherry 111c. It needed curtains and a cla, but it runs perfectly now.

It had spent 55 years in a case.

Hi,
Got an image to show?

Mike Kovacs · 03-10-2006

I'm interested to hear, but I would be surprised if it was under 250 euros. Shipping to Oleg isn't that high!

jonasv · 03-10-2006

Thanks for all the information!

Nicolas, I found Marc Nicolas' site and contact information. I've heard some horror stories about the Russian/Ukrainian mail services, so it would be nice to stay withing the EU (also quite a bit cheaper for shipping).

I would like to mail Marc Nicolas to ask for an estimated cost, but my french is not that good at all. Could you perhaps help me a bit with the terminology? Je parle cette langue un petit peu, mais je ne suis pas inauguré a la terminologie francaise concernant les télémétriques. Votre aide sera fortement apprecié! (Sorry for butchering the french language like this

!)

Specifically, I would like to ask monsieur Nicolas what the estimated price would be for (a) a full CLA (b) with special attention to the shutter curtains (most likely only need a small adjustment) and (c) it's likely the semi-silvered beamsplitter mirror needs resilvering.

If you could help me translating that into French, I would certainly appreciate it, I can email Marc Nicolas then.

Thanks!

franceluxemburg · 03-10-2006

In Paris : a new set of curtain for leica III is about 250 - 300 euros

Here is a link :

http://www.summilux.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6482

Seen the B&W pictures of the guy, a pretty good photographer.

This chap just bought a new "A la carte" leica and sold two MINT M2DS

He is the seller of my J-3

Cheers

J-B

jonasv · 03-10-2006

Thanks Nicolas! I didn't mean for you to translate the entire conversation, just some terminology to start with. But you're right, I now see his website is also in English (missed that earlier on), so I'll just mail him in English.

Cheers

payasam · 03-13-2006

Scigeek, not a post-war IIIc. Rewind lever on a step, knob on dioptre setting.