fft-fftt or fft-klack? shutter sound question

ffttklackdedeng · 03-04-2006

Hello,

a very lovely place here, I've been passively reading for some time already and decided to join your community now. My primary interest is in street photography, I think that the gear doesn't matter that much (except for the fun of fundling with it) but somehow my main one is a '54 IIIf ST, so I guess I will be visiting this subforum more frequently

I hope you don't mind if I start with a rather technical question: Although I've had a CLA done on my camera a year ago, I've got the impression that it wasn't done quite well. I don't care about the selftimer already being gummed up, but the shutter sounds rather loud to me. Putting the camera on 'B' and pushing and releasing the shutter sounds like: 'fftt - klack/dedeng' (first curtain - second curtain/slow times mechanics). So the first curtain is almost silent but the second one is way louder, making the release almost as loud as old SLR ala Nikon FE.. I've never had a chance to handle another IIIf so I can't make a direct comparison, but maybe some of you have an unloaded one sitting in front of you and could give it a try at 'B' and tell me how your's sounds like?

Thanks alot,
Robert

gregarpp · 03-04-2006

The two IIIF's that I have in front of me do not make that sound.
It simply sounds like pressing the shutter button twice

OldNick · 03-04-2006

My IIIf RD just makes two clicks, one when you press and another when you release the shutter release button.

reagan · 03-04-2006

Hey Robert ~ Welcome aboard!

I have a III ("F" not "f") that I'm fairly sure hasn't had a CLA in yeeears. I gave it a general lubing and adjusted the shutter when I first got it [not long ago]. I only have Zorkis to compare it to, but the shutter is lots quieter and smoother, mucho, than the Zorkis. How do the pictures look? That's usually the teller of necessary curtain adjustments. If the second curtain is waaaay louder than the first, it might possibly have too much tension on it. Does the shutter sound okay at other speeds?

Not much help, I know. I'm sure others will come along that will have lots better suggestions. Again, Welcome to RFF! Great place to find all kinds of help, ideas and encouragement.

ffttklackdedeng · 03-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CVBLZ4

Does the shutter sound okay at other speeds?

Not much help, I know. I'm sure others will come along that will have lots better suggestions. Again, Welcome to RFF! Great place to find all kinds of help, ideas and encouragement.

Sorry, forgot that.. It is about the same 'loudness' at all speeds (plus deng-deng on long times of course). But on B, one can hear that at least the first curtain is muuuch quieter than the second.

Thanks for the welcome words (

)
Regards, Robert

john neal · 03-04-2006

My 1954 IIIf RD goes "ffft" and "ffft", but I have recently given it a home CLA - before that it definitely went "fft - clack".

Don't know if that helps, but it could be there is too much tension on your 2nd curtain.

ffttklackdedeng · 03-04-2006

Wow, that was fast! Thank you all!

So I guess the second curtain's brake ain't working fine.. Shortly after the 'CLA'

, after each shot the first winding just wound the film, without cocking the shutter (the speed dial knob didn't turn) and only after one turn also the shutter was cocked - so every second frame was unexposed. After I described this behaviour, I had to send the camera in again.. The repair person was telling me the second curtain's brake had to be readjusted which was done than. The pictures are (besides this short period) always fine, so the curtain's speed seems o.k.. So no more CLAs in Hannover for me..

Again, thank you very much!
Robert

Brian Sweeney · 03-04-2006

A Nikon S2 makes the sound you describe, but not the IIIf. The S2 uses a counterbalance for a shutter brake. The IIIf is quieter, normally. Sounds like too much tension on the second curtain, as stated.

laptoprob · 03-04-2006

Robert, I really like your user name. Welcome to the forum
My Leica IIf sounds like clack-click. The two curtains sound almost the same. If I remember correctly my M2 sounded softer.
My FED1 sounds softer, especially the 2nd curtain. No idea why though.

Rob.

AGN · 03-04-2006

The shutter on my IIIa goes WOMP. Whoops, sorry, thats the Speed Graphic.

Just kidding. Welcome aboard Robert.

Fedzilla_Bob · 03-04-2006

I hear that if you record the shutter sound and replay it backwards it says "HCB is dead"

back alley · 03-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedzilla_Bob

I hear that if you record the shutter sound and replay it backwards it says "HCB is dead"

lol!
hot tea spurting out my nose...disgusting...sorry.

Fedzilla_Bob · 03-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

lol!
hot tea spurting out my nose...disgusting...sorry.

It must have hurt too! Sorry Joe.

Welcome to the forum ffttklackdedeng.

I'm still working out a pronnciation for your call name.

amateriat · 03-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedzilla_Bob

Welcome to the forum ffttklackdedeng. I'm still working out a pronnciation for your call name.

Just think of it as the Leicaphile's analog to "Fahrfernugen", and take it from there.

- Barrett (amazed that I didn't have to look that word up to spell it right...assuming there is a "right" way)

doubs43 · 03-04-2006

Robert, welcome to the forum and I also like your unique screen name.

The second curtain on my IIIf black dial sounds ever so slightly louder than the first curtain but not anywhere near alarmingly so. Kind of "zut - zuuT". My IIIa on "Z" is no louder than my IIIf BD but does the sound is a little different. It's not something I think I can describe accurately.

Walker

hoot · 03-04-2006

"fft" seems about right for the IIIf. You're lucky you don't have the IIIa, which goes "aat" and really scares people. Or, in fact, the rare IIId, which goes "ddt" and get the environmentalists screaming for your head.

laptoprob · 03-04-2006

Does anyone know how to adjust the brake strength for the 2nd curtain? The brake for the 1st curtain is easy. I just got Phil Nelson's book in the mail today. My 1st shutter curtain is nicely quiet now, but the 2nd still is kinda clack.

Rob.

reagan · 03-04-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by laptoprob

Does anyone know how to adjust the brake strength for the 2nd curtain?

I used Jay's Zorki site for help with my III. Second curtain adjusts same as the first, but [apparently] with a little less tension. Here's Jay's thoughts.

If you find one specifically for Leica Barnacks, I'd sure be interested.

laptoprob · 03-05-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CVBLZ4

I used Jay's Zorki site for help with my III. Second curtain adjusts same as the first, but [apparently] with a little less tension. Here's Jay's thoughts.

If you find one specifically for Leica Barnacks, I'd sure be interested.

Alas, Jay focusses on the Russians. The Leica IIf is very different here. Attached is a picture of the underside with pointed the first curtain brake. I increased this braking strength so the first curtain does not do click anymore, but softer.
Now what about the 2nd. curtain?

Rob.

ffttklackdedeng · 03-05-2006

Can't help about the 2nd curtain adjustment, but:

thanks for the name comments! I agree that it's a bit long for easy spelling, feel free to use the short form: 'fft-dedeng'. For the perfect pronunciation: it's easy, just fire your correctly set III at 1/2 second

Robert

wilt · 03-05-2006

Robert - easier to pronounce! - welcome to RFF!

Fedzilla_Bob · 03-05-2006

Now, If I only had a IIIf or IIIg. Dag nabbit.

reagan · 03-05-2006

Quote:

Alas, Jay focusses on the Russians. The Leica IIf is very different here. Attached is a picture of the underside with pointed the first curtain brake. I increased this braking strength so the first curtain does not do click anymore, but softer. Now what about the 2nd. curtain?

Yep, my bad Rob. I totally misread your posts.

For one, I failed to note your "IIf." The IIIs are fairly close to Jay's Zorkis. I worked on the opposite end adjusting curtain roller tension. (my added red arrows in your pic?)

I had second curtain causing just a little bit of darkening to one side of the photo. I noted Jay's comment "The less tension required, the smoother and quieter the shutter operation will be" so I started from scratch, one at a time releasing tension on both and re-adjusted. This gave me a smoother shutter as well as lined out my exposure irregularity.

laptoprob · 03-05-2006

Yes I know those are for tension setting. I will await lugs and leather first, do a test roll and see. Maybe I will slacken the tension a little to make the sound softer.

thanks, Rob.