Film Loading for Cameras FED, Zorki

[D_V_D_27]

Before loading of the film it is very important to check up landing of your coil (42) on a reel look Pic.8. It is necessary to adjust correct landing of the reception coil which is responsible for normal work of the camera. I offer you two ways of loading of a film.
The first way. It is necessary for you to make the following steps: 1) Make a cut (I do without this procedure) on film and insert its end into the reception coil (42) as shown in Pic.17. 2) On the camera put shutter speeds in position "B" and make release of the shutter and push the button of release (39) until the lever (40) will not be switched in a mode of rewind. As a result of these actions the shutter becomes completely open and you can easily supervise loading of film in the camera. 3) Take the coil in the left hand and charged magazine in the right, and enter film into a cuts as shown in Pic.18, while lowering them in jacks in regular intervals. If magazine does not reach a place, turn the handle of return rewind. That film should be laid on cone, if necessary you can easily correct it by a hand. 4) Put on the lower cover. 5) Return the lever of rewind in the former position, the second curtains should close. If curtains don't move it's enough an easy contact of the work head and it will there and then be closed. 6) Start the mechanism two times, pressing the trigger button (39) after each starting, look whether the mechanism pulls a film smoothly and whether the head of return rewind rotates. If the head does not rotate, it is necessary to check up correctness of the loading a film in a camera. 7) Install "0" on scales of the counter near the index.
The second way. It is necessary for you to make the following steps: 1) Make a scrap on film and insert its end into the reception coil (42) as shown in Pic.17 . 2) Insert a plastic card no more than 0,3 mm width into a crack of the camera. 3) Take the coil in the left hand and charged magazine in the right hand, and as shown in Pic.19 enter film into a cut before a plastic card (film will not fall up on the board (41)), in regular intervals lowering them in jacks. If magazine does not reach a place turn the handle of return rewind. After that remove a card and watch film to be laid on cones. 4) Put on lower cover. 5) Start the mechanism two times, pressing the trigger button, correct the film if necessary.Look whether the mechanism pulls a film smoothly and whether the head of return rewind rotates.If the head does not rotate, it is necessary to check up correctness of the loading a film in a camera 6) Install "0" on scales of the counter near the index.

Pic.8

Pic.17

Pic.18

Pic.19

Unfortunately, the format of this forum complicates to place the information qualitatively. Please look the full version of this article on the address:

[Nickfed]

Originally Posted by D_V_D_27

It is necessary for you to make the following steps: 1) Make a cut (I do without this procedure) on film and insert its end

This would have to be the worst written, worst presented, most redundant post ever - and unreadable to boot........

Wouldn't it be simpler to just refer to

ttp://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page345.htm

????

But maybe it's my eyes..........

[Damian]

:lol: It reminds me of the instructions for my developing tank....

[D_V_D_27]

Originally Posted by Nickfed

This would have to be the worst written, worst presented, most redundant post ever - and unreadable to boot........

Wouldn't it be simpler to just refer to

ttp://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page345.htm

????

But maybe it's my eyes..........

Yes, I have looked at this site of a network.
Well at first my methods of loading of the film differ from his.
My 1 method is much more interesting than this description, is easier to control the loading of the film. The loading of the film with cut takes 15-20 s. Please look at the full version on this link ( dvdtechcameras.com/info/2.htm )
Except for that, the second Jay's method with a card contains a mistake.

Yuriy

[DaveP]

Thank you for your post. Good information.........and yes, Jay is mistaken about the second method.The only reason for cutting film is to clear the second film rail.Leica engineers would never admit this..............

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by DaveP

Thank you for your post. Good information.........and yes, Jay is mistaken about the second method.The only reason for cutting film is to clear the second film rail.Leica engineers would never admit this..............

Sorry, But I find this method of loading reprehensible.

I stand by my comments. Doing the card method will lead to weakening of the springs which hold the pressure plate up in the RIGHT position.

The springs which hold the plate in place are very DELICATE. Continual use and insertion of materials like cards in the camera will lead to displacement. It only needs 0.01mm to make the focus adjustments go off.

Insertion can also scratch the plate.

And finally, why should cards be used? That will slow up the process. You'll need a flat surface to do that. And perhaps an extra hand. Cutting the film leader right will simply the process. Try timing the 'card method' and see how long it takes.
Count how many steps are involved. Then try the CORRECT METHOD. With practice it takes only a few seconds. I could load a Leica or Zorki or FED in under
30 seconds using the CORRECT METHOD.

Jay

[ZorkiKat]

And btw, the bottom loading cameras were designed to take film whose leaders were shaped so that they 'cleared the second rail'. Film would catch and would not load if it can't get in properly. Why try to go against that?

[DaveP]

Jay,
Heres my method using the card. I found some sheet plastic .012 thick and made some credit card size "cards". I also used some photo lamination sheets and laminated "cards" out of filter factor charts that come with filters. Might as well have dual use. Now, I set the camera on my lap with the bottom off and lens facing me.I align the card with the left edge of the shutter crate and insert it until it bumps over the second film rail.Next I fit the leader to the take up spool and pull out just enough to slip both the cartridge and spool into the camera.Now I pull out the card , wind once and put the bottom on. Done in about 20 seconds total. No removing lens or setting the shutter to bulb. Ive done this enough I actually dont need to wind on to check it but I do any way just in case. Ive had zero trouble, the cards are as slick as film so thay wont scratch the pressure plate and if I ever collapse the springs , I will make new ones out of stainless steel feeler guage. Give the card method another try, just dont use a real credit card as they are too thick and bumpy. I took your advice and also tried the cut leader method. My opinion is both methods work fine ,but the card method is faster. The key to using the card is to have a proper thin slick card and pulling out just enough film from the cartridge to slip into the camera............

[Jocko]

I have no doubt that Dave's way works and works well, but I'm still inclined to agree with Jay. It seems safer to stick by the rules. And is this bad? I am by no means dextrous and a relative novice with regard to the FED 1, but loading a trimmed film has never been a problem.

To be honest, I think the major difficulty is simply that it's a "different" method and we naturally assume the unfamiliar will be hard. The only trouble I had was in trimming the film - for reasons of personal idiocy I tended to cut it upside down. So Sad

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know if "long leader" film was ever available commercially - and if so, when it stopped? I ask, because I seem to recall that the ORWO film I used in the 80s had a much longer leader than modern stock, although this might be wishful thinking...

[DaveP]

I hope my comments arent taken as argument, they are not intended to be. I ve followed Jays ideas over on Best Stuff for years and I respect his expertise over my own amateur experience any day. The card method is merely an alternate to the original manufacturers method. It works well for me and I believe it would work well for a person in a pinch such as being caught out without something to cut the leader with.Not the end of the world, its just another tool to use. Im not anti film cutting, I just got used to my method so thats what I use. If anyone has a deck of playing cards laying around, give it a try just for grins.............

[Jocko]

Originally Posted by DaveP

I hope my comments arent taken as argument:

Good Lord, no - how else would we ever learn anything? Clearly, many people do happily load film with cards. I'm just terrified of doing anything that might break my camera - or truth be told, being chronically cack-handed, break yet another!

And I stress that card loading had nothing to do with these previous crimes against the clicky eye-boxes!

[D_V_D_27]

I as man who likes practice want to pay attention to the following moments ( hundreds of similar cameras Zorki and FED pass through my hands) concerning to loading of the film.
The first camera Zorki and more late models of FED have thin body, sometimes these cases have deformation and this influences on correct loading of a film. I must make an alignment of these cases, and sometimes their replacement. In similar body, a card looks rather not confidently. It is necessary to note, that thickness of a card should be picked up carefully to your camera. I use classical loading of a film at completely opened shutter, this allows to supervise the loading of a film. By the way, I often use constant speed "T" for pictures. Many amateur photographers even do not know, that cameras Zorki and FED have this opportunity. Anyhow both methods can be used successfully.

The second method has more lacks and using of this method demands more care.

[ZorkiKat]

Let us look at the two methods here: the correct one and the hacked one:

The card method is slower. It may take only 20 secs to thread the film- but it takes additional time to remove and replace the lens from the mount- this has to be done slowly and carefully. Add to that the additional moments it takes
to set the shutter to B and hold it open. Then the finger coaxing of the film in place. That would definitely take longer than loading using the correct method.

Also, lens removal for loading whilst out "on the field" is not a practical option. Tables and suitable surfaces to lay the partially dismantled camera is a luxury that is not always available. The correct method only needs to have the bottomplate to be held.

And third, lens removal is one MAIN REASON why the RF cam coupler (of FED and Zorki) can go off kilter. The instruction booklets for the older bottom loading FED and Zorki
admonish against the removal of the lens- going to the extent of saying that "removing the lens can cause damage". Lenses should be removed only for replacement with another- and not everytime a new roll has to be loaded.

Properly cut film is the main ingredient for fast and correct loading. Trimming the leader properly can be done with a pair of scissors. The films illustrated in the old manuals look 'hand cut' - they look too uneven- but nonetheless properly tapered-
to have been cut with a template.

Jay

[DaveP]

Jay,
I dont have a clue why you need to remove the lens and put the camera on B when using the card method. Read my instructions again, i dont remove the lens or set the camera on bulb,its not necessary. Again this is not an argument,lets just enjoy our cameras and pass on information.

[Nickfed]

Indeed. This business of taking the lens off and opening the shutter etc., in the field, is just absurd. I suspect that this has all come up because people think there must be a better way whereas all they really need to do is apply themselves properly to the right way. Of which there is only one - well enuff described on the jay.fedka site and elsewhere. I'm very suss about the above comment on the delicate presser plate springs. It isn't possible to make springs that are that critical. But why add to the complication anyway? It makes no sense.

Perhaps a cause of this is the dearth of original instruction books. Even for those who cannot read Russian, pictures 10,11 and 12 of the FED manual really say it all.

[DaveP]

Some one out in the field "discovered" the card method. If leica engineers had thought of it, Leica would have sold "loading cards" with their logo on them. original ones would probably be going for nice $$ on Ebay right about now........

[Jocko]

I've had my twopennyworth already and I haven't changed my view... But... Has anyone actually damaged their camera using the card method? I'm not talking about a theoretical possibility or something that happened to a friend of a friend of a nameless bloke in a camera shop, but in actual personal experience.

Because as far as I can see, there are many experienced photographers like Dave - or indeed, friend Gandy - who seem to load their Leicas using unconventional methods without suffering any ill-effects. I'm happy to stick to the manual - but without something better than a simple "Thou shalt not" I'm beginning to wonder if the dire consequences are a photographic urban myth.

Cheers, Ian

[D_V_D_27]

There is such a proverb " Seven times measure once cut off ".
It's very important for amateur photographers who likes cameras Leica and their copies to learn how to charge film correctly.
I recommend to load first ten films with the removed lens and at open shutter (you need 1 second for switching a shutter "B" in "T").
Except for that there is no necessity to cut film with the removed lens . The variant with a card approaches for a blind variant more.
This procedure will be watched throw and it will help to avoid mistakes in the future.
Further you can charge film even blindly, but first steps I recommend to supervise from the beginning up to the end.
The beginner should be confident on 100 %, that film at a platoon shutter will go correctly.
I regret very much, that we do not consist in club " RFN " where it is possible to organize competition " charging of a film " for a while and to prove our being right.
Yuriy

[DaveP]

Yuriy,
I agree 100% !! Learn both methods and learn why they work. Once it is understood then both methods can be safely used with experience. I imagine Leica is well aware of the card method and concluded that it should not be mentioned for warranty reasons. Beginners ,not knowing, could damage the camera by trying to insert planks rather than slim slick "cards". I can load both ways myself, but have fallen for the speed and convience of the card method........

[reagan]

I agree there, DaveP. I'm absolutely no pro at any of this, but for my own good, I sure don't see the harm in learning well both of these techniques and any other approaches. So thanks to all who offered well-meaning helpful input in this thread. I certainly try to take care loading any camera not to do something harmful to it in the process. (I refrain from using power tools ) And since I haven’t found myself in a setting where "time is money," I can't say that I've ever put a stopwatch to the reloading chore, nor had any yearning to do so. Quite the contrary, I've been known to hunt down a cup of coffee or a park bench where both time and attention can be given without the rush. That being said, I’m sure it’s quite obvious to all that I’m a dreadfully lazy schmuck and am most likely to use whatever method is the easiest at the moment.

Again, thanks guys!

Jay, one curious statement you made, or actually you referred to a statement from FED/Zorki factory instructions I believe ... ~

"FED and Zorki admonish against the removal of the lens- going to the extent of saying that "removing the lens can cause damage". Lenses should be removed only for replacement with another- and not everytime a new roll has to be loaded."

.... ~ and this kind of goes OT, but it seems odd to me that they would build a camera and lens system so that lenses could easliy be removed and others put on, swapped around, etc. and then warn the user that doing so could damage the camera? Just wondering, what was the context of that statement in the early manuals?

One manual that I have, though not a bottom-loader (Zorki.3 manual which I believe you aided Andre Ostapenko in the translation to English) makes the statement (not verbatim) that it's "not recommended to unscrew the lens from the camera if you really don't need to." It sites only care for the threads and keeping dust out of the camera as concerns, but doesn't imply that the act of removing the lens could cause damage.

Anyway, just tryin' to learn something. Thanks Jay.

[DaveP]

cvblz4,
You brought up an interesting point! Any time card vs cutting the leader is argued , it always turns into which method is faster.I fell into the same trap, the methods are probably only seconds apart in reality, but the real advantage of the card method is the utility and convience. I carry a card in my billfold so its always with me, I have one in each camera bag and a couple on the work bench. In a pinch a business card will work just fine.Cutting the leader requires having something to cut with, scissors, knife ,whatever, ,,,,,,,something else to remember to take with you for the day. I know, cut the leaders before leaving home. Still, knowing the card method will save the day if you run through all your rolls or simply forget to bring something to cut with. Another tool at our disposal.

[payasam]

Dave, the back of the lower half of my IIIc's case has a pocket which cannot possibly hold anything other than a thin card. The previous owner of the camera, who had bought it new a year or two after WW 2 ended, told me that the pocket had held such a card. Finally, I remember coming across a reference to this card, which Leitz provided, and to its five-letter code. The long leader method is indeed the one which you will find in the operating instructions of all screw mount Leicas, but Leitz themselves did not consider it gospel.

[Valkir1987]

In the back of my Zorki case is a card, this card however is used to write down exposure times, calculations etc. I use it to write down the aperture and shutter time for some frames. The Leica case also has a card holder for a small exposure calculator or table.

I never use it to load film. For loading film I take a Leitz Film cutter and a sharp blade. My father owns a prewar leica, and some books about it. The film cutter was orginally used for cutting film after loading a cartridge with film from a spool. Film cartridges (Agfa, Leica and Ilford for example) had a long film leader for the Leica. Orwo films had a long film leader as well.

Greetings,

[Sylvaticus]

Haven't noticed anyone mwention one other point for cutting a longer leader. It's very important not to cut through or even slightly nick a sprocket hole at the inner end of the leader; a damaged sprocket hole will catch somehere in the camera and you can get bits of torn film floating around inside.

[payasam]

Valkir, in the 1940s and earlier, it would have been difficult indeed to find a writing instrument which would work on a very smooth surface: the ink would simply smudge or rub off. I know that it was close to impossible even in the 1960s. A card of that size, besides, could not hold much information. Whenever I needed to keep a record, whether of news photos or of exposure settings, I did that on a small note-pad. The card a reference to which I came across was specifically meant for use in loading film. I cannot see why else Leitz would have given it a five-letter code. You're quite right that many makes of film used to come with long leaders. For some while, both were made in parallel. I remember being asked, at shops, if I wanted long or short.

Sylvaticus, if you look around you will find that many people have written of the need to avoid sharp edges and loose corners anywhere on leaders. Given that film is both brittle and delicate, this should be self evident.