Elmar/Hektor Black Barrel Database

doubs43 · 02-22-2006

Joe, if you can make this a "sticky" under the Leica Screw Mount Forum, I'd appreciate it.

I'd like to put together a database of 9cm/90mm Elmar and 13.5cm/135mm Hektor screw-mount lenses in BLACK BARREL only. That means pre-war to the late 1940's. I'm not certain when production changed to chrome barrels but it was late 1940's I'm pretty certain.

Any data I collect will be available to all members who are interested.

The data I'd like to have is:

Focal Length - 9cm or 90mm & 13.5cm or 135mm as marked

Serial number - complete if possible

Focusing scale - feet or meters

Aperture Range - i.e., f/4 - f/36

Elmar or Hektor

Coated or uncoated

Pictures of the lens would be nice; side view and view showing the serial number, model etc.

The names of the owners are not necessary.

Please PM the information or email me at: doubs43@cox.net.

Thanks to everyone.

Walker

doubs43 · 02-22-2006

Bump....... I've had my first reply..... a 1947 Hektor.

Joe, can you make my request for data a sticky? PLEEEEEEEEZE!!??

Walker

laptoprob · 02-22-2006

I have one coming up, Walker. The one William got. I will try it in a Hektor screw moount to get rangefinder coupling.
More when I have it.

cheers, Rob.

doubs43 · 02-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by laptoprob

I have one coming up, Walker. The one William got. I will try it in a Hektor screw moount to get rangefinder coupling.
More when I have it. cheers, Rob.

Thanks, Rob. I have input from two RFF members now. I personally have two Hektors and an Elmar in 13.5cm length and one 9cm Elmar.

I should have also asked for black barrel Elmar 13.5cm lenses. Think I'll go back and do that.

I'm also keeping an eye on ebay offerings as many times the data I seek is in the pictures or descriptions.

I appreciate any information anyone can provide and I'll happily share whatever I get.

Walker

John Shriver · 03-03-2006

Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 596514. Meter, has some remains of coating. (A dog.)
Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 556563. Meter, uncoated.
Hektor f=13,5cm No 600125. Meter, coated.

All to f:36 minimum aperture, continental scale.

doubs43 · 03-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Shriver

Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 596514. Meter, has some remains of coating. (A dog.)
Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 556563. Meter, uncoated.
Hektor f=13,5cm No 600125. Meter, coated.

All to f:36 minimum aperture, continental scale.

John, thank you very much for the data. Elmar #556563 is a 1940 lens. #596514 is an early 1945 lens while the Hektor is a late 1945 lens.

While my data is much too sketchy at the moment to tell anything for certain, what I've been able to find on ebay plus what RFF members have sent me, it appears that Leitz was coating their lenses by at least some point in 1944. Whether they were coating all or only military destined lenses is also not known. That's what I hope to eventually determine if it hasn't already been recorded somewhere. I haven't seen that data in print myself but it could be.

Thanks again.

Walker

laptoprob · 03-03-2006

Walker, I got Williams black Elmar 135 a few days ago. William has given you the info on numbers etc. Do you have all the info you want? It is the uncoupled one.
It is possible to mount the Elmar lens on a later Hektor body, but the Elmar body is shorter, so no real use there. I would like to use the uncoupled Elmar on a coupled body. Maybe I can get an okd-style coupled lens body somewhere.
Do you know how long a black Hektor body is, from flange until the end of the focusing mount (at infinity)?

cheers, Rob.

Ronald M · 03-06-2006

As soon as I fine mine, I`ll forward info

90 and 135 uncoated-- both black- both RF coupled

laptoprob · 03-06-2006

I already mailed these to Walker: I have been searching Ebay for info on different types of lensheads with corresponding barrel lengths.
Reason: I would like to be able to use my 1930 Elmar 135mm (not cm!) on a coupled barrel.
I think there are two lengths: 9,24cm for the old type and 10,71cm for the newer type. Measured when set for infinity.
The two types of lensheads are easily distinguishable.

Can anyone confirm this?

thanks, Rob.

march 11: things become clear. The shorter barrel is Elmar, the longer Hektor.

JimG · 03-06-2006

Walker I sent info. for my black 9cm.

John Shriver · 03-06-2006

Rob, you would need a focusing mount calibrated for the focal length of your Elmar head. Focusing it to infinity isn't enough, the slope of the cam depends on the focal length.

That's why you want the penciled or engraved number in the focusing mount to match the last three digits of the serial number of the head.

John Shriver · 03-06-2006

According to Puts' book, consumer Hektor 135/4.5 lenses were coated starting at serial 600000. Wartime lenses were coated as early as 1941, but only for sales to the military. (For instance, Summitars for the military were coated starting at 587001.)

laptoprob · 03-11-2006

So now I have two very early Elmars 135mm. Or rather an uncoupled numberless 135mm (meters, possibly 1390, scratch no. 41316) and a coupled 13,5cm (feet, possibly 1932 or '33 no. 142101).

The latest just arrived today from a misnamed Ebay auction. It is not a Hektor! So it may well be that all Elmars have the slightly shorter mount.

Since I am not that much of a collector, the appearantly very rare uncoupled version is for sale. Please make me an offer.

cheers, Rob.

Rich Silfver · 03-11-2006

My Elmar 90/4.
Serial # 372160 (1937)

Ronald M · 03-12-2006

Finally found my lenses

90 4.0 Elmar #576855 uncoated A 36 Feet only marking

135 4.5 Elmar #415351 uncoated A36 Meter only marking

Both are black finish both coupled RF

doubs43 · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Shriver

According to Puts' book, consumer Hektor 135/4.5 lenses were coated starting at serial 600000. Wartime lenses were coated as early as 1941, but only for sales to the military. (For instance, Summitars for the military were coated starting at 587001.)

John, thanks for the information from Puts. That's the first printed information of it's kind that I'm aware of and it dovetails nicely with what I had suspected about the coating of Leitz lenses. One explaination for the way it was distributed is that lens coating may well have been a military secret. It's also possible that the process wasn't sufficiently developed to allow coating of all lenses.

Walker

doubs43 · 03-13-2006

Rob, Rich and Ronald; thanks for the lens information. I'm entering them into my data base.

Walker

Bill Snell · 03-26-2006

Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 177712 (1933). Metres. uncoated.
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 414995 (1937). Feet. uncoated

doubs43 · 03-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Snell

Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 177712 (1933). Metres. uncoated.
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 414995 (1937). Feet. uncoated

Bill, thank you. Your 1933 Elmar is the earliest one I've encountered so far.

Walker

laptoprob · 03-29-2006

Hey Walker, I sold the uncoupled 135 Elmar to a guy who has a same-period non-standard 1(C). He informed me about his camera and 50 Elmar serial no.: 48679. The 135 Elmar is 49316. The first standardized Leica camera is appearantly a serial 55404.
Hektor 135's start at 156.000 in 1933.

Bill Snell · 03-30-2006

Walker, The 1933 Elmar is in great condition. Thought you might like to see acouple of shots.

doubs43 · 03-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Snell

Walker, The 1933 Elmar is in great condition. Thought you might like to see acouple of shots.

Bill, both of those shots are very nice. I like the colors and they show that the old uncoated lenses, if in good condition, are capable of first class results. I have a 1938 vintage 9cm Elmar on the way and I hope it'll do as well. My father's 1937 Elmar is well-worn but turns in outstanding results.

Thanks for posting thos pictures.

Walker

jkelly · 03-31-2006

Does anyone have a pic of their 9cm mounted on a Barnack body? I'm thnking of getting one for my IIIa, but it seems that it might be rather unwieldy.

doubs43 · 03-31-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkelly

Does anyone have a pic of their 9cm mounted on a Barnack body? I'm thnking of getting one for my IIIa, but it seems that it might be rather unwieldy.

Here's a Leica III with the 9cm Elmar & Imarect Finder mounted. The quarter gives size reference. The combination is not in the least difficult to handle. It's actually a very nice combination.

Walker

VictorM. · 04-04-2006

Forgot about my black Elmar: 9cm 1:4, s/n 596758, coated, meters, distance ring is ivory paint, not chrome, older f-stop numbers, f/36 minimum.