Minolta scan dual IV tips

[shaaktiman]

I've already spent a while searching the archives looking for some help but I've decided to put this popular question forward once more since I still need help.

What are people using to run their scan dual IVs? Both driver-wise and process-wise.

I have an epson 4990 but since I've started shooting less medium format and more 35mm I decided to go for a dedicated slide scanner. I pretty much exclusively shoot black and white. I picked up the scanner yesterday and tried a test, using the packaged software and noise ninja to get the best possible scan.

The following are detail scans of a b/w neg from my epson 4990, then from the dual scan scanned in as a b/w neg and finally from the dual scan but scanned in as RGB and then desaturated and inverted. Clearly that one is the best in terms of the grain/detail seesaw. But how can I get it better than this? Will vuescan help? Can anyone give me specific advice?

It is frustrating that I spent so much money on a leica and crazy expensive glass but I can't seem to pull the detail out of the neg in the scan! I feel like I might as well be using a snappy cam sometimes.

[xcapekey]

bump for this thread...as i'd be interested too in any scanning tips...

[dcsang]

VueScan.

B&W is a b1tch to scan because there is no "ICE" or "ROC" or "GEM" or "GRANITE" (ok ok.. I made up the last one) for the film.

Use Vuescan and try to judiciously remove the scratches and such via PS.

VueScan does do multiple samples too which may help somewhat.

Cheers and good luck,
Dave

[jja]

I certainly cannot claim to be a scanning expert, I feel I'm still learning my Scan Dual IV after about 200 scans. My software is Vuescan. I was scanning as BW, and my results were pretty muddy. I scan as Color Neg now, following the advice I saw on a thread here a couple of months ago (look in the digital darkroom forum and you will find that really excellent thread).

So basically, I scan as Color Neg, and all the other settings are the standard pre-sets in Vuescan. in the Color tab, I adjust the Curve and various Brightness settings until it looks satisfactory.

Lately, I've been scanning a lot of HP5+ @800, and the grain has been acceptable. Sometimes I use a very light grain reduction in the Filter tab.

I've scanned various color films and the results have not been satisfying, really washed out colors. Fuji Neopan 400 has come out really washed out and grainy too, but I've used it very little. I've had good luck with HP5+, Tri-x, and Kodak's BW400CN.

It's very important to start with a clean neg, as you know already. Here are the straight scans (HP5+ @ 800), downsized for the web. The first is the whole neg, and the second is a section of the neg. Let's see what you think.

[jja]

And here's the thread with Vuescan tips:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...hlight=vuescan

[dmr]

The tips I would recommend are:

1. Scan at max res, 16bit, multi samples, even if you will reduce later.

2. Don't make big adjustments when scanning, do later in Photoshop or Gimp.

3. Pay attention to technique, like film handling, de-dusting, etc.

Vuescan has its fans, but I haven't found any real shortcoming in the K-M software. I don't think it will scan faster, or give better quality.

[jja]

Tri-x @ 400:

[amateriat]

Whew...a lot of territory to cover.

I have a Minolta 5400 (I). I spend half my scanning time between the Minolta driver in Photoshop (mostly with color) and VueScan (mostly b/w, including XP2 chromogenic). VueScan simply offers more control, and I generally scan straight greyscale, no RGB, no chaser, and with relatively little extra tweaking in PS (there are exceptions, of course). I've set up several DS IVs for others and have gotten fairly close results with VS (note: I work largely in Mac OS X, and a little in OS 9). As jja mentions, a good deal rides on the quality of the negs (in terms of conventional b/w film), but great results can be had with these scanners. And I regard VueScan as something of a crazy bargain for what it delivers.

- Barrett

[shaaktiman]

OK, this is weird. After playing with this scanner for a few days I've found that sometimes I get great scans and sometimes I get weird ones with blown highlights and super high contrast. The only difference though was the brand of film I was trying to scan!

Acros scans beautifully. A little better than the same frames scanned in on my 4990.
Neopan 400 scans like crapola. WAY worse than the same frames scanned in on the 4990. (so I know that it isn't my negs.)

WTF???!!!

[dmr]

Originally Posted by shaaktiman

OK, this is weird. After playing with this scanner for a few days I've found that sometimes I get great scans and sometimes I get weird ones with blown highlights and super high contrast. The only difference though was the brand of film I was trying to scan!

Acros scans beautifully. A little better than the same frames scanned in on my 4990.
Neopan 400 scans like crapola. WAY worse than the same frames scanned in on the 4990. (so I know that it isn't my negs.)

WTF???!!!

Are you using that Auto-dustbrush thing? If so, try turning it off.

Also, are you doing auto exposure on it?

Have you tried scanning the B&W as color? For me I've found little difference on a good negative, but others swear it gives them better results by scanning in color (as positive) and converting to monochrome later.

Hope this helps.

[matu]

Same thing to me, I got mine a week a go and for some reason I get blown highlights sometimes, even when I use it with vuescan. Resetting the computer didn´t help.
I think that it´s not the Scanner problem maybe its the PC.
I´ve seen that Mac users don´t argue about their scanner.
As soon as I pay my current gas attack I'm going to switch to Mac.

[shaaktiman]

It's weird. I really can't fix it. It's an incredible pain.
I think I'm going to return it, I don't have the energy for this kind of fiddling anymore. I spent 2 months learning how to get really great scans from my 4990. I'd love to get even better ones, but I'm not investing another 2 mos. I want to take pictures not fight with gear.

[shaaktiman]

Sure does. But I've been having extremely spotty performance compared with my epson. When the minolta works well, then it work great! But about half my scans are unusable and it seems to mostly depend on the type of film that I happen to be using.

I dunno. Maybe mine is a lemon, it is a refurb model. I would recommend that you buy it from someone that has a good return policy in case you run into the same issues. (Or if it's being bought secondhand, that the original owner can attest to the fact that it works well.)

[stnolan]

I just bought the Scan Dual IV and was having problems with pink banding on my scans of some old slides while using the packaged software. It was recommended that I use Vuescan. I bought the Vuescan software and immediately saw an amazing improvement. It's very easy to use. I will follow up when I get the chance to scan some negs.

[shaaktiman]

Actually, I just had a thought. The driver that came with it says that it works on Mac OS 10.3.

I am running 10.4. Maybe there's a conflict. What OS are you guys using?

I think I'll buy vuescan and see if that helps at all. I got the demo but it only worked for a few scans before mysteriously freezing the scanner.

*sigh* Maybe it just isn't meant to be between us.

[jan normandale]

Originally Posted by matu

Same thing to me, I got mine a week a go and for some reason I get blown highlights sometimes, even when I use it with vuescan. Resetting the computer didn´t help.
I think that it´s not the Scanner problem maybe its the PC.
I´ve seen that Mac users don´t argue about their scanner.
As soon as I pay my current gas attack I'm going to switch to Mac.

I'm using a KMSD IV and a Mac running 10.4.5. Everything works well for me. I'm not experiencing any of the issues tabled here.

[dmr]

Originally Posted by matu

Same thing to me, I got mine a week a go and for some reason I get blown highlights sometimes, even when I use it with vuescan.

I discovered something today when playing around, which I described on another thread. I have always scanned negatives with auto exposure on, but today I scanned a normal-contrast negative with auto exposure off and I got most definitely clipped highlights and shadows.

At the suggestion of the gang here, I played around with the manual exposure control to get the feel of it. I found, on this particular negative, at least, that I could shift the entire histogram, thus fixing the clipping on the highlights or the shadows, but never both.

Scanning as a B&W negative with auto exposure gave the full tonal range. Scanning as a color positive with or without auto exposure gave full tonal range as well.

However, on this particular negative, scanning as a B&W negative with auto exposure off it gave a bad scan which was not correctable by the single enabled exposure slider.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Shaak: I've beaten this horse before...

The software that comes bundled with the scanner is crap. It's ok if you're Mr. or Mrs. I-don't-care-that-much-really-how-my-scans-look, but I saw the light when I got SilverFast SE

Others report VueScan as their scan saviour. It's not the scanner: it's the scanning software.

[jja]

I'm running Mac OS 10.4.5, and have no problems running Vuescan. The Minolta software, as gabrielma notes, is crapola. I can't even get it to start up anymore (after several re-installs).

That is not to say, however, that Vuescan is perfect, as so many posters attest. It is right down fiddly, and don't even get me started on its color scanning performance, that would require a whole new thread, and I could really use advice on scanning in color. Probably best to scan as "generic" in the color tab, but I wish one of the film/speed combos actually matched the colors I was seeing when I shot the film. (I think the color labs I use in my area are to blame, who knows what they do to the film when they process it.)

Shaaktiman, I do not blame you for wanting to send the scanner back, esp. if you were happy with the Epson. My scanner has already been out for repairs, under warranty. It was exhibiting banding on the entire negative. It is working now, but I do not want to overwork it--like making it do multi-pass.

Okay, I realize I'm not providing much by the way of "tips." I'm going to try to document my workflow more closely and pass on anything I find useful.

[matu]

It's weird to see that the KM IV is the more recomended scanner because of its price-quality but lately I've seen some of us having a lot of trouble with it. I believe that this may depend on the health of the Computer.
Anyhow I like it a lot. The only issue apart from it's temeperemental behaviour is the dust removing problem. Lately I found the dust & scratch removing plugin bundled on Photoshop Elements a great way to get rid of the anoying marks.

[amateriat]

I know the KM IV can seem daunting, but it's a matter of getting it dialed-in with your system, and getting to know the software. No film scanner I've worked with was exactly turnkey-simple, so it takes bit of time - even moreso with b/w scanning. I've set up and handful of these for clients, some of whom are using them largely for b/w scanning. Decent stuff can be done even with KM's software; better, more fine-tuned scanning can be done via VueScan.

- Barrett