Kiev or Zorki?

wlewisiii · 10-15-2004

Ok, I'm setting the pennies aside and with the hope of a wing and a prayer, might have the $$$ for a new camera in the not so near future.

I'm thinking about a russian RF. The question is Zorki (4 or 6) or Kiev (4m or 4am). The search function here has been profoundly unhelpful, so I am here with my question.

Two bits, I dearly love the tessar in my Iskra. Are any of the misc lenses tessars? Also, I fully expect to get the whole Jupiter lens series eventually, so is one of them a tessar design?

Thanks,

William

back alley · 10-15-2004

i can't speak to quality differences but the contax copy kiev is mighty fine looking camera.
of course i bought a nice looking fed 2 and it don't work!

on the other hand, i just know that someday i'm gonna buy a kiev 4? (the one without the ugly meter on top)

joe

rover · 10-15-2004

I am also drawn to the Kiev, but haven't jumped due to all the mixed luck folks have with FSU stuff. I don't have it in me to be mailing packages back and forth to get something that works right. But a nice Kiev with a J8 and J9 would be nice.

guinness · 10-15-2004

I would say buy both (I did), but it does seem like the Leica copies have a larger selection of lenes (Jupiters and Industars for the LTM), but I feel that the Kiev is built better than the FED, the Zorki I can't comment on.

As for the Jupiters, the Jupiter 3 and 8 are Ziess Sonnar copies, those do seem to run a little bit cheaper in the Contax-mount on Ebay.

Brian Sweeney · 10-15-2004

I cannot think of an inexpensive Tessar copy for the Kiev. It seems strange as it is such a simple mount for the 50mm focal length: no helical! You can get a Zeiss Tessar in Contax mount, but they are not cheap. I sold one for a friend; it went for over $200.

The Industar is a copy of the Elmar, which is a Tessar formula. The one sample that I have is no where near as sharp as my Elmar 5cm f3.5 on the IIIf. Quality control is an issue, and variation between samples is high.

But if you really want a Tessar, some Kodak Retina's and other folder's such as the Certo Dollina of the '30s were equipped with the Zeiss lens. And Zeiss fixed-lens cameras were equipped with the Tessar.

Oldprof · 10-15-2004

As Guinness says, buy both. But you are allowed to start with one.

Bear in mind that any 40-50 year-old camera can have flaws, regardless of where it was made. Fifty year-old Leicas and Contaxes often have problems too. Some of the common problems, such as light leaks and pinholes in cloth shutter curtains can be fixed on a do-it-yourself basis. You can find lots of support on the BestStuff Russian Camera Forum at:

http://www.beststuff.com/forum/list.php?f=21

Shop as carefully as you can. If you go the eBay route, look very carefully at the seller's feedback, the photos in the ad, and the statements made about the camera in the ad. Look for sellers with lots of transactions and a feedback rating that is over 97 percent positive. Try to find items whose condition is described as "mint minus" or "excellent." They may cost a little more, but are usually worth it.

FSU cameras sell for ridiculously low prices, so if you get a bad one it isn't the end of the world. I have purchased six (a FED 1g, a FED 5b, a Zorki 1e, a Zorki 4, a Kiev 4a, and a Kiev 4am) and have been very happy with them. I did have to do some home repairs on two of them, but it was no big deal. In fact, I enjoyed it. The history of these cameras is also very interesting and fun to research.

sfaust · 10-15-2004

I bought a black Kiev 4a (without meter) and it came with a Jupiter-8M (not sure what the M stands for). I only ran one roll of C41 film through it, but was pleased with the results. Next step is to run some E6 and check it under a loupe to get a better idea of lens quality. Other than it being a pain to load film, the ergonomics of the Contax grip, and a being spoiled by the R2 viewfinder, it seems to handle well.

It also seems to be well built, as I managed to get in some near destructive testing purley by accident (dropped it twice - dont ask

). And I rarely ever drop cameras.

khingdheano · 10-15-2004

my 2c, worth less than that---
I have two Zorki 4's that I am absolutely in love with. Also have a Zorki C which would probably be my #1 Russian shooter, except for the bottom loading pain in the, well, the bottom. I have just this evening bought on eBay a Kiev 4, $31 including shipping from the fomer USSR. All those add up to about $150 total expenditure, a pittance in the camera world. Buy them both, I say. Buy all of them, you will in the end, it is inevitable.

Laika · 10-16-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by wlewisiii
I'm thinking about a russian RF. The question is Zorki (4 or 6) or Kiev (4m or 4am). The search function here has been profoundly unhelpful, so I am here with my question.

Two bits, I dearly love the tessar in my Iskra. Are any of the misc lenses tessars? Also, I fully expect to get the whole Jupiter lens series eventually, so is one of them a tessar design?

Thanks,

William

Hi William,
All of the cameras you mention are good users, It would come down to a personal preference.

I have a Kiev 4AM but it doesn’t see a lot of use as I prefer the LTM bodies. The Kiev's are nice having a full range of speeds (up 1000th), quiet shutters (more of a 'squish' than a 'clunk') and a solid feel. Downside for me is the shutter design is more complicated should it go wrong, I don’t really like the focus wheel (coming from a SLR background I guess) and the Kiev's seem not to be as nicely finished as the FED/Zorki's IMO. Image quality from the Kiev's is very good from what I've seen but I find the lens mount more limiting (One reason I like the LTM bodies more)

Zorki 4 - again a full range of shutter speeds up to 1/500th (at the cost of the RF base length, only an issue with the 135mm, 85mm or fast 50mm at or near wide open), viewfinder about the same as the Kiev and Z6. The knob style winder is not the best to use with the cameras high top cover so the 4K with its thumb lever is preferred by most. I find the Z4 a bit boxy and top heavy but this is only noticeable in the company of the other Soviet models like the FED2 and Zorki 5, 6. If you do go for a Z4 I would look for a nice 4K with a black J8 lens or an early model 4 with engraved shutter speed dial and top cover markings.

Zorki 6 - Saving the best till last IMO

. This model lacks the slow shutter speeds but in my experience if a Soviet camera is going to play up its going to be the slow speeds (I have a few). I don’t feel short changed without the slow speeds, Its not that often I'll hand hold slower than 1/25th or 1/30th and if I do I should have loaded faster film or have a tripod handy (using 'B'). The viewfinder is the same as the Z4 but it has the long base like the Kiev, great focusing accuracy for faster 50's and longer lenses. This model has a very slick (for a Soviet) thumb winder mechanism that leaves any 4K I've handled feeling rough. Another plus is the hinged film back, very user friendly. Try and find a nice Z6 with a J8 and even better if its a export model as they tend to be a bit better finished as a rule (All Soviet export models are marked 'Made in USSR').

A far as tessar design Soviet lenses you want to get yourself a FED2 with a Industar 50 or 53mm f2.8 (Ind-26m, Ind-61, Ind-61 L/D…they are all tessar’s)…. No Soviet RF users in his right mind should be without a FED2 … Look out for a nice twin logo late model FED2 with a 'Panda' lens … MMmmm nice

Good Hunting!

wlewisiii · 10-22-2004

Well, I've been considering this and then discovered a book. I work part time at a used book store and found a copy of "The Contax Way" by H. Frietag (6th edition, 1956). Reading through it, I decided to go that way and ordered a Kiev 4AM body and a Jupiter 8m from Fedka tonight. Now comes the hard part - waiting over the weekend to get it!

Thanks all for all the great advice. This is a really helpfull and enjoyable place.

William

agfa100 · 10-23-2004

I think you will have fun with the Kiev, also I agree that they seem better built then the other russian rf's. Also Fedka is very good to deal with, over the last couple of years I have picked up 5 Kiev cameras from a late 2 to a 4am and all have worked and not needed any work.