new here

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

I've been peeking in and out of this forum for a while but this is my first time posting. I'm also "fairly" new to rangefinders (borrowed a friend's Leica but have never owned one). But, I've put my name on the R3a list at a camera store here in Tokyo where they will be released sometime towards the end of this month at an "estimated" 65,000 yen. I do a lot of street photography and am looking forward to the R3a but I'm a Voightlander-Bessa virgin and I'm not sure which lens to get yet. I initially want to buy a 35mm and 50mm (I'd be using the 35mm w/ an external finder). I've read some people here started with the 35mm Color Skopar and were quite happy with it and that's probably the first lens I'll buy. Also, which 35mm finder would you recommend? I looked through the metal and plastic 35's - seems the plastic feels, of course, more flimsy, but has higher magnification. I'd greatly appreciate it if some of you more experienced VC users would give me your thoughts and advice. I like to travel as light and simply as possible. Until now, I've been using an Olympus OM-4t w/ 35mm lens exclusively. Anything to avoid or look out for?

RML · 10-09-2004

Welcome, Allen! I'm sure you find RFF a nice place.

Woh! 65.000 yen is a lot of money! That's about $650, right?

If you're quick you can benefit from the offer at http://www.cameraquest.com . Until the end of Photokina Stephen Gandy waves the shipping costs of all items ordered during Photokina. You can order the R3A at cameraquest for $499. That beats the price of your local camera store.

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

RML, thanks for the welcome! Actually, 65,000 yen is closer to about 580 u.s. dollars and, after I convert money at the bank here, I would only be saving about 50 dollars. I'd rather just buy the camera the day it's available here and be done with it - problem with impatience you could say. Any thoughts/advice on lens/external finder out there?

BillG · 10-09-2004

I am a little confused. If you want to use a 35 and 50 lens to start with, why are you ordering an R3A, not an R2A.

The R3A has framelines for 40, 50, 75 and 90. and the 1:1 viewfinder.

The R2A has framelines for 35, 50, 75, and 90. and doesnt have 1:1 viewfinder.

I have used and like very much the viewfinder on a Bessa R. I have use the 35mm f2.5 CV Classic. Great combination for travel. I have used the 35mm plastic ext. viewfinder slipped into the cold shoe top mount of the Bessa T101. Works well for me. The T has no viewfinder, just a rangefinder window. It is very good for focusing longer lenses like a 90 or 135. You will need an external viewfinder for any lens on the Bessa T or T 101.

I am not sure what the advantage of the 1:1 viewfinder of the Bessa R3A is exactly. I have read some comments on this type of view that has been the viewfinder in some old Canon RF cameras. I have never looked through one.

I guess you had the opportunity to compare an R2A and an R3a.

I have been generally very, very happy with the CV Bessa equipment, bodies and lenses that I have purchased. The only complaint I have is that the ASA dial on the T101 and I guess the T doesnt lock into place, and can very easily get nudged to the wrong speed. So when shooting with the T you need to keep checking that dial, and actively second guess any odd meter readings that start to happen. If you are out and take the camera out of a camera bag it could get nudged. A small point but it sticks out because everything else works so very, very well.

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Bill, I'm getting the R3a for the higher mag viewfinder which I can use with a 50mm lens. I'm planning on just using an external finder for the 35mm. I don't foresee any serious problems with this as long as I'm careful w/ the external finder and don't break it. If I ever decide to go longer than 50mm (who knows), then the R3a will be better suited for that also.

BillG · 10-09-2004

As for travel gear - Took a road trip down from Canada to South Carolina last year. I took along a Nikon 5700, Canon elan 7e with some prime lenses, 20, 28, 50 85, and a T 101 with a Heliar 50mm 3.5 lens, and the Cv 35mm f2.5.

Early on the T101 and the CV 35mm lens with external finder, was the camera I kept reaching for and using. The 5700 gave some shots as well.

I got rid of the Canon gear, I found the viewfinder awkward.

The best viewfinder on an SLR that I have found is a Nikon N8008s.

I wear bifocals.

I could have got 90% of my travel keeper shots with the Bessa T101 and the 35mm lens. The remaining long range, telephoto shots, I caught with the Nikon Coolpix 5700.

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Bill, how has the plastic 35mm finder held up? Also, I'm not used to adjusting for parallax error w/ an external finder. I'm assuming that, at close range, I will have to adjust vertically on a Bessa. Is there any adjustment that has to be made horizontally also? The reason I'm asking is I do a lot of street photography w/ subjects closer than 2 meters!

peter_n · 10-09-2004

Allen welcome to the forum!!

I don't have a CV camera but from all the accounts here from owners I think you will love it. I do have the CV 35mm Color Skopar, albeit the now discontinued first pancake version. It's a really good lens, very sharp with good color rendition and the resolution on my particular sample is excellent. It's just a really good lens and I highly recommend it.

Given that you are buying an R3A and it has a 40mm frameline, have you considered the new 40/1.4 Nokton rather than a 35/50 combo? I am sorely tempted by this lens myself, and I have the 35 and a 50. My experience of the 35 is that it is the perfect lens for a rangefinder, but I sometimes wish that it was just a little less wide.

If you got the 40, then a great addition for travel would be the 75mm/f2.5 Color Heliar. People here really like that lens - small, light and very sharp. Something to think about...

Sorry, don't have any experience with the 35mm finder...

Pherdinand · 10-09-2004

Hey, Allen! Can't giv you advices (though, lots of folks here play with the idea of the new cv 40mm f/1.4), -just thought i will say hello! And, cool photo you posted. (Especially the first one.)

rover · 10-09-2004

Hi Allen, I use the CV 21mm finder which I think is very good. It is plastic, but I don't see that ever being a problem for me. Street shooting may be a little more rough on your gear than my family shooting though. Do you wear glasses? Do you ever imagine adding a 28mm lens to your kit? CV also offers a 28/35 combo mini finder. It is very compact, metal construction and supposed to be very good. I have read though that it is difficult to see the 28mm framelines when wearing glasses.

Let us know what you end up with.

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Thanks Peter and Pherdinand!

Peter, I thought about the 40mm, but for the type of photography I do, wider is better. I'd also been debating about going with a 28 instead of a 35, but I'm gonna stick with the 35 for right now. It's tried and true for me. I'm wondering if there is a significant difference between the pancake versions I and II. I hear a lot of good things about the first version but nothing really about the second version. Hmm...

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Rover, didn't see your post! Yes, I'd been thinking about the 28mm also - that's for later in the game. I looked through the 28/35mm minifinder and thought that the 28 and 35mm separate finders were much better. I couldn't really even see the parallax correction lines in the 28/35. But I only looked through them for a few minutes at the store. I'm going to look again. Thanks for your comments though. It's great to get users' opinions on this!

peter_n · 10-09-2004

Allen I have not seen/used the pancake II but from what I have read it is just as good a lens as the pancake I. If I didn't have the older pancake I would have no hesitation in buying the II.

You might want to do a forum search at photo.net for the pancake II as there are a number of posts about the lens there.

taffer · 10-09-2004

Welcome Allen !

I like a lot that first shot of yours, thanks for sharing !

About a 35, I own the 35 pancake I myself and I highly recommend that lens, however, as others said, maybe you could also consider the new 40/1.4. People using the Pancake II here seem to be also very happy users.

And if you're looking for a CV 50, there's a CV Skopar one for sale here at a very good price.

Good luck !

Oscar

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Thanks guys - you're really helpful here. I'm doing research in between posts here, and, as you both said, Pancake II users seem to be quite happy with the lens. Thanks for the tip on the 50mm too Taffer!

Here's another photo...

peter_n · 10-09-2004

Cool photo, Allen.

You should post some of your pics into the gallery here. Would like to see more...

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Thanks Peter. I'll probably upload some photos into the gallery tomorrow. I'm just browsing around the forum right now and trying to get a feel for everything. There are some really cool friendly people here!

GeneW · 10-09-2004

Allan, I have a Bessa R2 and I use a 40mm lens on it, using the 35mm frameline. There's not a BIG difference between the two and so far I've had no framing mishaps.

You could as easily use a 35mm with the 40mm frameline and save yourself the expense and be able to keep your eye in the main VF. That's what I'd do anyway ...

Glad to meet another Olympus OM shooter. I still have nice working pair of OM-1's.

Gene

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Gene, could you explain that a little more? I assume that you mean the 35mm lens covers just a tad more than the 40mm framelines. Do you know what the whole viewfinder coverage is by chance? BTW, same here about the OM's- great cameras! I'll still be using mine along with the rangefinder.

back alley · 10-09-2004

gene beat me to it.
buy the 35 and use the 40 framelines. i'm big on the guesstimation game, i guess.

i use a bessa r (great finder) with 35/2.5 & 75/2.5 combo. the camera is very comfortable and natural to use and the lenses are great. i have the classic version of the 35 - the only knock i've heard about the pancake version is that for bigger hands it's less comfy to focus and it's not that much smaller than the classic.
the 75 is a perfect lens, size, quality and sharpness wise.

if you are seriously thinking about a 50, maybe p.m. ben to let him know.(i saw your post there)
i have a 50/1.8 canon lens for my 'p' and it's amazing how, after using a 35 mostly, it feels like a short tele lens.

anyway ---welcome to the forum--we're pretty friendly in these here parts...

joe

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Thanks for the info Joe! I just got an e-mail from Ben actually so I may have a 50mm before the 35mm. As for the 35mm, I don't think I'd have problems focusing with it - skinny fingers. I'll be back at the camera shop tomorrow to check out the lenses a little more. BTW, love those Winogrand lines - and those Winogrand photos too.

Doug · 10-09-2004

Welcome, Allen... The Voigtlander finders are excellent, whatever the construction manterials. But I would certainly recommend from my experience that you not count on external finders for a primary use lens. Since it sits on or near the camera's horizontal center, there's no perceptible horizontal parallax, but its high position increases vertical parallax. The camera body's built-in finder has an automatic correction for parallax, very handy to avoid slicing off bits of your subject!

If you figure the 35mm lens to be your main lens for street photos at short range, I think you'll be better served with a body having parallax-corrected 35mm framelines in the body.

I agree the 40mm is a great choice too, especially in combination with a 28mm. Those who've seen the R3a at Photokina have said the 40mm framelines are hard to see for glasses wearers, whereas the R2a's 35mm framelines are easy.

In the case of the 28mm and 35mm choices, there is also a choice of faster & slower lenses, with wider maximum aperture at the expense of weight and bulk. In an SLR, the wider aperture helps focusing, but this is not a factor for an RF camera. If you figure on needing a wide aperture for low-light use, you'll need to accept the narrow DoF along with that extra size and weight. Obviously a balance of priorities all-round!

Honu-Hugger · 10-09-2004

A warm welcome to the forum, Allen. Sorry that I can not offer any advice with the Bessa cameras, however there are plenty in use by other members and I'm sure that they will share any information they can. Nice photos -- I especially like the stairs. I hope we see more in the future.

D2 (another Doug precedes me here)

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Doug, thanks for the advice. It does make me sit back and consider whether I would really be better off with the R3a. You'll have to forgive me - I'm a bit new to this. Do the framelines adjust for parallax correction when focused at a particular distance? If so, this wouldn't really work in my favor as I zone focus most of the time.

Another question: have you heard anything about the sound of the shutter from anyone who handled the new Bessas at Photokina? I'm wondering if there is a considerable difference between the R2 and the newer models. This is one reason why I'm going to a rangefinder camera.

About the choice of a slower/faster lens, I don't need the fastest lenses in the lineup. I do shoot in low-light but weight and size are just as important for me.

Thanks for the good advice.

Allen Gilman · 10-09-2004

Thanks Doug2 for the warm welcome! I'll definitely post more.