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Chemical Storage --Keeping the air out
Old 01-09-2006   #1
ikiru
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Chemical Storage --Keeping the air out

Recent Threads mentioned HC-110 have had me wandering around google. I've recently been thinking that I need a second developer in addition to Diafine + Tri-X. I ran acrossThis Site .

He States that: "On opening a 16-ounce or 500-mL bottle of HC-110, I decant the syrup into four amber glass medicine bottles, three of which are filled to the brim to exclude all air. I withdraw the syrup with an oral medicine syringe (designed for giving liquid medicines to babies; not used with needles and not restricted by law anywhere). Then I spray "Dust-Off" gas into the bottle to displace the air that was let in."

This is an image of the bottle tops used

My Questions are

1) Where do you get your bottles and more importantly the lids

2) How do you spray dust off inside, without it just escaping and being replaced by air again, do the caps have some sort of valve?

More detailed advice from anyone else who uses this method of chemical storage would be great.

-jay
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Old 01-09-2006   #2
pvdhaar
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What you need are Vacuvin wine savers: www.vacuvin.nl

Although intended for keeping wine fresh for a couple of days after opening a bottle (what a truely Dutch concept it is!), and sized for wine bottles, they are useful for any liquid (like developer, fixer, stopper), that needs to be kept fresh. Just as long as it's not carbonated

There's a nifty vacuum pump that goes with them, so it even works with bottles that are half full or so. I can't imagine using a syringe to pump out half a litre of air..


You can get them through amazon as well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=284507

Hope this helps..
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Last edited by pvdhaar : 01-09-2006 at 22:25. Reason: copy/paste error in link
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Old 01-10-2006   #3
kaiyen
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I'm not sure where you're located but...you can get amber glass bottles at a number of places. Asking at your local pharmacy is one, actually, though the two I've asked here have turned me down. You can get them online from a number of places - just google "amber glass bottles."

The canned air (dust off) is supposed to be heavier than air. Therefore, when you spray it in, it should not just float back out immediately. Throw the cap on there and you're set. However, there have been remarks that it isn't as effective anymore for some reason or another (I forget).

You're easiest solution is to just buy a lot of glass bottles in different sizes. Decant into 1L bottles. As you use them, decant into .5 liter bottles. Then to 250ml, etc. This is harder with HC-110, I know, since it's so thick.

Having said all that, I keep a number of developers around for quite a while, starting them off in gallon bottles. I do use the canned air (I always have several cans around anyway) as I use them up. I do not decant into smaller bottles as of right now. I have kept D76 and Microphen around for at least 6 months using this technique, with no apparent degradation in activity. The only one I've had die on me is FX-39, but that's a really short-lived developer. If I were to continue to use it or its cousin, FX-50, I'd get amber bottles.

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Old 01-10-2006   #4
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I have heard of old-timers putting clean glass marbles in the bottles to replace the missing volume as the liquid level drops. The oxidation process requires air/chemical interface, so if you can keep the liquid level up into the neck of the bottle, there is less surface being exposed to air. That's the theory anyway.

Frankly, I don't do any of that stuff. I tend to make small batches of D76 and use it before it goes flat.

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Old 01-10-2006   #5
traveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiyen
I'm not sure where you're located but...you can get amber glass bottles at a number of places. Asking at your local pharmacy is one, actually, though the two I've asked here have turned me down. You can get them online from a number of places - just google "amber glass bottles."
I don't know the regulations in Canada or the USA, but look for laboratory glassware dealers. There you can get the real good laboratory bottles from Schott even in square form (saves a lot of place). Better yet if you know someone who is studying or working in a laboratory, If he (or she) is able to buy these bottles at special conditions it will save you a lot of money .

John

Edit: I forgot to mention, why not spray a little bit gas (from refiller bottles for cigarette lighters) into the bottle? The gas is heavier then air and you don't need much.

Last edited by traveller : 01-10-2006 at 09:50.
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Old 01-10-2006   #6
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Good theory and it works in practice, too. I personally use old 16 oz. Steen's cane syrup bottles for my XTOL. I fill each one to the top with XTOL, so there is only a tiny air bubble.

For your HC110 decanting into small bottles is a PITA, but if you are slow in using the stuff, it may be more reassurring.

I think it was Jorge who recommended displacing the remaining air with a couple of shots of butane.
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Old 01-10-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveller
I forgot to mention, why not spray a little bit gas (from refiller bottles for cigarette lighters) into the bottle? The gas is heavier then air and you don't need much.
Oh, I don't know. Hot flaming death, maybe?

Seems like a tremendously bad idea to me. But that's just me.

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Old 01-10-2006   #8
traveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmattock
Oh, I don't know. Hot flaming death, maybe?
I hope you don't smoke while developing films

It's just butane and your spray only a little bit. Do you know Protectan Spray from Tetenal? The same stuff but a lot more expensive.

Best regards

john
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Old 01-10-2006   #9
ikiru
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Ahhh I see.I had no idea dust off and the like moved so slow! I thought those lids shown in the photographs were needed for the task. I plan on using hc110 and diafine, so I'll be using it at a slow rate, hence the need for proper storage. The fellow on the site claims a few years! Thanks for the responses.

-jay
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Old 01-10-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmattock
I have heard of old-timers putting clean glass marbles in the bottles to replace the missing volume as the liquid level drops.
That's exactly what old-timer Gene does ... drops marbles in the top until the liquid rises the top again.

Then, at some point late in the cycle, when there are more marbles than HC-110, I pour the remaining liquid into a small brown glass jar that once contained PhotoFlo.

Then shake out the marbles into a strainer, rinse well, dry, and they're ready for the next big bottle of HC-110

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Old 01-10-2006   #11
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You can use any kind of glass bottle with just plain old cork, Just paint the bottle black.
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Old 01-11-2006   #12
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I use marbles as well. Just don't lose them!

Accordian bottles are another way. In my large containers, I use floating lids.
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Old 01-11-2006   #13
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I have used propane for years to displace air in paint and varnish containers. Works perfectly. Use a standard hand held propane torch. Direct the torch tip into the container and give it a shot.

Since I settled on Diafine years ago, I have not had to worry about it for storing my developer.

Tom
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Old 01-12-2006   #14
titrisol
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Decanting HC-110?
That sounds like a not very brilliant idea.
I always thought that syrup was made so that you wouldn;t have to worry about oxidation and would have a very long life.

Other developers that are dissolved in water (Xtol, D76, LPD, etc) yes it is a good idea to break the 1 gallon into smalles bottles, but not those in organic solvents (HC-110, PC-TEA, etc)
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