C41 Dev and Scan

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

My usual place that does a C41 dev, index and scan to CD is out of action.

Recently their price has been €6 for this service. They scan at 1,200dpi.

I went to the 'other place' today on the other side of town. The young guy clearly had never been asked about this weird combo before and quoted me €5.

But he had to phone his father for advice, and during the call I browsed around his store and made sure he saw my camera slung over my shoulder. He was whispering but I heard the word 'Leica'. Odd because I had a Voigtlander.

I asked about the scan resoloution and he said 300dpi. So I acted shocked and said that I was used to getting *at least 4,000* dpi and he said ok he would do that resolution at the same €5 price.

Pickup tomorrow at around 11.00.

What do you pay, and what do you get?

dmr · 01-09-2006

$5 and change (US) for develop and CD at Walgreens, the local drug store chain. My guess it is around 1200 dpi, about 1 meg files.

$8 and change (US) at a local independent lab. Again, I think it's around 1200 dpi but the files are just over 3 meg, so I assume they use less jpg compression.

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Try looking here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/servi....34.5.98&lc=en

Also:

http://bermangraphics.com/press/frontier.htm

Quote:

Scanning 35mm Slides with the Frontier Printer
Not many people know about this, but the Frontier printer can also produce high resolution scans (3000 pixels per inch) from 35mm slides and negatives for a remarkably low cost. (Costco's price was 59 cents each!) Over a one week period we had 100 of Larry’s old slides scanned to create a new Film Gallery and two galleries of images for sale on BermanArt.com. The scanned files were 4535x3035 pixels and were saved as 12 to 19 megabyte high quality Jpeg’s. These opened in Photoshop as a 39 megabyte PSD files. Not all Frontiers’ will output at this resolution; it will depend on the IC (image control) software in use. Ask the operator to scan for a 10x15 inch print and that will set the unit to output at its highest quality.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

It's a new ball game and they don't know what to charge.

I used to pay €3, then bit by bit it increased to €6 for dev, index and scan.

But another place nearby is asking for €35!

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

Yes, the Fuji Frontier can scan at HIRES but the operators seem not to know about it.

Problem is, a HIRES scan of a 135/36 takes some time (about thirty minutes I think), and they would rather be pushing 300dpi films through the same machine in a fraction of the time.

bmattock · 01-09-2006

For what it may be worth, I still believe that if a person wants scans done on a frequent basis, it is far cheaper to buy a dedicated film scanner and amortize the cost over time. I get far better scans than any one-hour or even your basic pro lab can offer - and I paid $300 for a scanner that is now available for $200. I fail to see the advantage to having it done and paying, and paying, and paying for inferior scans.

But to each their own.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

Yeah, I know you're right Bill. But a good scanner is going to cost me €750 or so. The minilab does it for maybe €3, I don't know exactly as it's a bundle with the dev and index.

So if it is €3 I'll need to scan 250 films to break even, and I only do about 100 a year.

dmr · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmattock

For what it may be worth, I still believe that if a person wants scans done on a frequent basis, it is far cheaper to buy a dedicated film scanner and amortize the cost over time. I get far better scans than any one-hour or even your basic pro lab can offer - and I paid $300 for a scanner that is now available for $200. I fail to see the advantage to having it done and paying, and paying, and paying for inferior scans.

I planned to, and use the film scanner for the real good ones only, those I want a very good scan of.

For those I want just casual prints of, or maybe for e-mail and the web, it's much easier to pay a couple bucks for the CD when it's being processed.

It takes a few minutes total per scan, when taking time to do it right, on the Dual IV, that's an hour at least for a 24 exposure roll. IMAO it's money well spent to get a medium-res scan of each frame.

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Yeah, I know you're right Bill. But a good scanner is going to cost me €750 or so. The minilab does it for maybe €3, I don't know exactly as it's a bundle with the dev and index.

So if it is €3 I'll need to scan 250 films to break even, and I only do about 100 a year.

I'm sorry it will cost you that much. May I ask why? I know that prices are not the same everywhere, VAT, etc, but that much more? A ScanDual IV is a pretty good scanner, you're saying it costs 750 Euros where you are? Ouch!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Nikon Bob · 01-09-2006

I pay $3.44 Canadian (2.44 Euro), including taxes, for develope only with a Kodak Photo CD and index sheet. I have no idea what the rez is and neither do the operaters interestingly enough. I just use the CD to see which I may want to scan at home. Another strange thing is that the develope only is the same price as including the CD and index. If the develope only was cheaper I would not bother with the CD.

Bob

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmr

I planned to, and use the film scanner for the real good ones only, those I want a very good scan of.

For those I want just casual prints of, or maybe for e-mail and the web, it's much easier to pay a couple bucks for the CD when it's being processed.

It takes a few minutes total per scan, when taking time to do it right, on the Dual IV, that's an hour at least for a 24 exposure roll. IMAO it's money well spent to get a medium-res scan of each frame.

Again, just my 2 cents - but once a roll of film has been commercially scanned, in my experience and opinion, it is hopelessly scratched up - your milage may vary.

I does not take a few minutes per scan to scan your negs at low rez at home. Much much less. Plus, you can be doing other things while scanning - I do it all the time.

If you're looking to do a low-cost 'index' scan sort of thing, the latest flatbeds with transparency adapters will do something like 24 frames at a whack. That's your whole roll in most cases. Not the greastest compared to a dedicated scanner, but heck - I think I could make a case for buying both a flatbed and a dedicated scanner - using the flatbed for 'index scan' type scanning if time is that much of an issue.

Of course it is your money and your choice. Frankly, I could not begin to afford it with the amount of film I shoot - I'd be spending a thousand or more a year on just scanning. And money spent on having scans done is gone - you don't own anything but a CD at the end of it. When I've amortized my investment in scanners, I still have the scanners. For the remaining life of the scanners, the scans they produce are essentially free.

It all comes down to personal choice though. I can't see paying to have it done, but those are my circumstances.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Bob

I pay $3.44 Canadian (2.44 Euro), including taxes, for develope only with a Kodak Photo CD and index sheet. I have no idea what the rez is and neither do the operaters interestingly enough. I just use the CD to see which I may want to scan at home. Another strange thing is that the develope only is the same price as including the CD and index. If the develope only was cheaper I would not bother with the CD.

Bob

I'd say you're getting a pretty good deal. I pay $2 US for process only, no scan, no prints. That's about what, $3 CDN?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

A decent scanner is the thick end of £500, at £ x 1.45 = € that won't be far off €750 once delivery is included.

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

A decent scanner is the thick end of £500, at £ x 1.45 = € that won't be far off €750 once delivery is included.

Wow, that's really awful. I'm sorry to hear it. I would not be able to afford a decent scanner for a long time with prices like that. I wonder why they're so high where you are?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

Some things are very expensive in Europe.

Ten dollars a gallon for gas always surprises US visitors.

Nikon Bob · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmattock

I'd say you're getting a pretty good deal. I pay $2 US for process only, no scan, no prints. That's about what, $3 CDN?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

If the currency calculator is right, then $2 US = $2.38 Canadian. I might try skipping the CD next time and see if it results in better condition negs as you have suggested but when it is included for the smae price it is hard to resist. To put it another way $3.44 CAD = $2.94 US. There seems to be great variences on what is being charged for similar services in different parts of the globe but then that is no surprise either.

Bob

Nikon Bob · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Some things are very expensive in Europe.

Ten dollars a gallon for gas always surprises US visitors.

Gas I can live without when visiting Europe but smokes are a real killer, pun intended.

Bob

jtzordon · 01-09-2006

I used to use my Epson 3170 for proof scans until it went *KAPUT*. Lately I've been using the local Walmart for about $5 a pop for 1200x1800 pixel scans. MUCH better than my local photo lab. It would cost about $9 per roll for 1000x1500 pixel scans that look like crap!

Nikon Bob · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Yeah, I know you're right Bill. But a good scanner is going to cost me €750 or so. The minilab does it for maybe €3, I don't know exactly as it's a bundle with the dev and index.

So if it is €3 I'll need to scan 250 films to break even, and I only do about 100 a year.

Jon

I think you and Bill are talking about two different levels of scanners. I realize Europe is more expensive but a scanner like a Minolta 5400 II is more than a Minolta similar to what Bill uses ( sorry forgot the model Bill). I am just thinking of the apples to oranges thing maybe happening here. No matter which model the cost will be more in Europe but not by that margin, I hope.

Bob

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

Smokes price varies a lot.

Portugal is very cheap compared to Britain. About half the price.

But go to a shop in Algarve and there will always be touts by the door offering no-brand cigarettes for 50% discount so long as you buy a whole case.

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Bob

If the currency calculator is right, then $2 US = $2.38 Canadian. I might try skipping the CD next time and see if it results in better condition negs as you have suggested but when it is included for the smae price it is hard to resist. To put it another way $3.44 CAD = $2.94 US. There seems to be great variences on what is being charged for similar services in different parts of the globe but then that is no surprise either.

Bob

Bob, I'd say that if your highest-rez scans don't show problems with scratches and dust and etc, then you probably won't gain anything by not scanning. It has just been my experience that for me, it was a night-and-day difference. In retrospect, it seems obvious to me now that a mechanized system that drags the film strip here and there for enlarging, scanning, and etc is more likely to damage the negs in a variety of ways than simply taking the negs out of the soup, drying and cutting them and putting them into sleeves.

I got so tired of spending hours in The Gimp (or PS Elements before that) to try to remove scratches, thumbprints, dust, and so on - on a single frame of film, just to make it useable.

And I could never explain why the process was damaging to the film when talking to the photo shop operators and managers - after all, a 4x6 print would never show the damage - even an 8x10 optical enlargement can blur tiny damage until it is nearly invisible. But if you scan at nearly 4,000 dpi and look at 1:1 views, you see it. If you crop much and then print, you see it. And it was driving me crazy.

Anyway, it works for me. You might give it a try at some point if you like.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon Bob

Jon

I think you and Bill are talking about two different levels of scanners. I realize Europe is more expensive but a scanner like a Minolta 5400 II is more than a Minolta similar to what Bill uses ( sorry forgot the model Bill). I am just thinking of the apples to oranges thing maybe happening here. No matter which model the cost will be more in Europe but not by that margin, I hope.

Bob

I use the Konica-Minolta Scan Dual IV, which I paid just over $300 US for a year and some odd months ago. It is now just over $200 US. I used to use the Minolta Scan Dual III, which I also found acceptable (I got a defective one, and later sold it).

The Scan Elite 5400 II is currently about $500 in the US. I am contemplating it, although at present I cannot afford it - if I am going to shoot film for stock, I may need it.

However, I must add that I am entirely satisfied with my scans from my SD IV. I have printed at 20x30 from 35mm negs - and the results were eye-popping. Hey, I won a contest that paid the cost of the scanner in the first place, so how bad can it be?

If a $200 US scanner costs 750 Euros, I feel very bad for you guys, seriously!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

ClaremontPhoto · 01-09-2006

Last week I was looking into a Nikon Coolscan V or a Minolta 5400. Both are about the same price. £450 - £500.

bmattock · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Last week I was looking into a Nikon Coolscan V or a Minolta 5400. Both are about the same price. £450 - £500.

Yes, here they are $400 to $500 USD. So more where you are, by about 1.5 factor? But the SD IV is $200 here, so 300 Euros where you are?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Nikon Bob · 01-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Claremont

Last week I was looking into a Nikon Coolscan V or a Minolta 5400. Both are about the same price. £450 - £500.

I thought that the difference was too much and it appears that you are both talking about different models and their costs. There still is a healthy difference when you compare the Minolta 5400II at 450 GBP = $795 US and a US cost of $500.

Bob