12mm images on R-D1 please?

pfogle · 12-16-2005

Hi all,

I've just ordered the famous 12mm, and would like to see how other photogs are using this lens on the R-D1. There have been a couple of people mention it, but I haven't found any images. I'm talking real-world pix here, not lens tests.

Anyone got links to pix I could see?

Also, I haven't yet ordered the D finder, and I'm interested to know how you find it (no pun intended!) - can you use the lens without the D finder, and is the D finder accurate enough to really be useful? I don't want to fork out another hundred quid if it's of marginal use.

Any advice gratefully received.

cheers
Phil

chanyik · 12-17-2005

Here is a few pics taken with my RD1 + 12mm ultra wide heliar:

http://www.fotop.net/stephenchan/_D______05/EPSN1149 Macau

http://www.fotop.net/stephenchan/Snap/EPSN1407 Hong Kong Clear water bay

http://www.fotop.net/stephenchan/Snap/EPSN1353

http://www.fotop.net/stephenchan/Snap/EPSN1353

http://www.fotop.net/stephenchan/People/EPSN0920

Hope it helps

pfogle · 12-17-2005

Hi, thanks, they're great - just what I was looking for.

the lens arrived today

I only ordered it yesterday afternoon! I've taped up the viewfinder with strips of masking tape, and it's perfect - saved 100 quid

attached is a full frame about half size, and a couple of 100% crops from my first tryout at dusk. ISO 800, f8 and infinity focus.

Andy Riddle · 12-27-2005

I was wondering if you had more information on taping up the viewfinder for the 12mm lens.

Thanks,
Andy

saxshooter · 12-28-2005

Are you guys correcting for vignetting in the raw plugin? Stuff looks great. I use the 15mm and have been eyeing the 12mm...

rami G · 12-28-2005

just got a nice present yesterday.... yes, the 12mm VC I am leaving new york tomorrow for few long weeks and I am planning to take the 12mm the 21 asph elmarit, the 35 lux asph and the 75 lux. with the 12mm even with the RD-1 with it crop comes close to the best combo I have ever had. (still hoping for 35 filed of view lux to travel with one lens as I often did with my Leicas)
hope to have helpful suggestions (and pictures) after using the lens for a while,

pfogle · 12-29-2005

Hi Andy, I was hoping to post a pic of the viewfinder, but I've hurt my back, so it'll have to be another day.

The CV 12mm viewfinder has no brighline frame, so you just use the (blurry) outline of the viewfinder to frame. So all I did was cut four narrow strips of packaging tape, and literally just stick them on the front element of the viewfinder, to match the view of the lens. This is easy to do with the camera on a tripod - take a scene, get it on the LCD and then match the viewfinder frame to the LCD image. Takes 5 minutes, and the result is surprisingly accurate. I'd say I get better framing on my homemade 12mm than I do on the CV 21D viewfinder that I bought for the 21mm Elmarit.

I know I'm a lens tart (fickle

) but the 12mm hasn't come off the camera since I got it. Just waiting on some good weather to post some images.

Saxshooter - no, I don't correct for vignetting, though I would if I needed to. The amount of vignetting is surprisingly low with this lens, and it's pretty consistent across apertures.

Sean Reid · 12-29-2005

"no, I don't correct for vignetting, though I would if I needed to. The amount of vignetting is surprisingly low with this lens, and it's pretty consistent across apertures."

That's very true - I much prefer the 12 to the 15 for just this reason.

Cheers,

Sean

saxshooter · 12-29-2005

Phil, that's very impressive performance of the 12mm. I saw in Sean's wide angle lens tests it vignetted less than the 15mm (seeing the white wall tests) but in practical use you can hardly see any vignetting at all. When I use the 15mm and have skies in frame, you really see the vignetting. I'll mull over switching over to the 12mm...

Thanks, Charlie

Sean Reid · 12-29-2005

Hi Charlie,

Yes, the snowy field pictures were really a torture test for vignetting. My experience was that I did certainly notice vignetting with normal subjects with the 15 but very little (again with normal subjects) with the 12. A little vignetting can work well - a lot of vignetting isn't my cup of tea.

Cheers,

Sean

saxshooter · 12-30-2005

Sean, thanks. I also noticed when I overexposed slightly with the 15mm the vignetting wasn't as pronounced, but I guess that is one's eyes playing tricks... a brighter center but not so vignetted edges. Trying to decide between the 28 1.9 ultron (I already have an Elmarit 28) or the 12mm Super Heliar... Hmmm...

Or will keep saving my clams for that rainy day (Digital M)

Cheers, Charlie

dsaa · 01-01-2006

hi everyone
great pix by chanyik, but i notice the (what i assume is) falloff that causes an orange band along the left edge of <http://www.fotop.net/stephenchan/People/EPSN0920>.
i have this problem with my r-d1, usually at 1600 with my zeiss 28 or voigtlander 15 but not with my leica 50.
anyone else notice a similar problem ?
btw i love my r-d1 and have barely touched my canon 5d since the epson arrived. like many others i bought the r-d1 after re-reading sean's great and through review (thank you sean).
d

PaulN · 01-01-2006

Given that the lense is f5.6 are people predominately using these for landscape shots & daytime street shots? The lense has definitely piqued my interest, I'm just not sure if it would work with my typically poorly lit interior people shots.

-Paul

pfogle · 01-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulN

Given that the lense is f5.6 are people predominately using these for landscape shots & daytime street shots? The lense has definitely piqued my interest, I'm just not sure if it would work with my typically poorly lit interior people shots.

-Paul

here are a couple of shots at night with the 12mm - f5.6, ISO 1600. You can easily hand-hold this lens at 1/15th sec.

saxshooter · 01-02-2006

FWIW I shoot mostly people shots and often find myself shooting my 15mm 4.5 (only a smidgen faster than the 12mm) handheld at 1/15 or even down to 1/2 second. I often bump the ASA up to 800/1600 too. You miss some due to subject or operator movement, but the size of the lens can't be beat.

What click focus distances does the 12mm have?

pfogle · 01-02-2006

Click focus at 1m and 0.5m - I would prefer one at 2m which is my main focus setting. The scale says that the DOF at 1m goes to inf, but for me it doesn't really cut it. But you quickly learn where 2m is by feel.

It's a funny lens... it gives the feeling of being a bit soft, but it does sharpen up quite well. But it's very even across the frame - surprisingly good at the corners at the cost of not being stellar at the centre.

But for me, just to have that wide angle with very little distortion is fantastic! On an SLR I'd be having to correct for distortion on most frames.

loretdem · 01-02-2006

...dude, take a Valium. That kind of ranting is bad for the blood pressure.
-there's no such thing as a 24mm 2.8 'Cron. In fact there are no 2.8 'Crons at all.
-I'm glad you realized after the fact that your math is way off. It obliterated half of what you wrote in one fell swoop.
-8MP beat the crap out of 6MP sensor? Are you on something stronger than Valium? 6 vs 8 MP is not worth getting all sweaty about. Just chill.
-No R-D2. You're right there, but if Seiko-Epson has enough coin to pay for your group shows and take you out to fancy dinners then obviously they don't minding losing money. Just kidding, of course!!!
-You love to say beat the crap, don't you? That slow slow f5.6 Heliar is actually very cool on the R-D1. I guess it's just not your cup of tea.
-I take it you don't have an R-D1 because from your rant it seems apparent that you just don't "get it". This is a camera you either love or hate. It's not about the megapixels or some whiz bang tech features. It is what it is. And there's nothing else quite like it. Regardless of no R-D2 and even with the coming digital Leica M, the R-D1 fills an important niche. Kudos to Epson for having the guts to create this controversial (!) first digital rangefinder (too bad they don't have the guts to support it!). If you're more interested in the latest-and-greatest digital rat race then enjoy your neverending shopping spree.
-Carlos

Taipei-metro · 01-02-2006

You are right, please accept my apology.

LCT · 01-02-2006

Funny that some people don't like other people to have fun.
Happy new year to all.
Best,
LCT

LCT · 01-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by LCT

Funny that some people don't like other people to have fun.
Happy new year to all.
Best,
LCT

Sorry i missed your response Taipei.
All the best,
LCT

Taipei-metro · 01-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by LCT

Sorry i missed your response Taipei.
All the best,
LCT

Well, I made the mistake on the lens cropping factor of RD1 for 2x, I'm thinking about Sony R-1 and Olympus E500. It's 1.5x. Canon XT 1.6x 20d 1.55x...
I did not google Leica 28mm 2.8, correct named Elmarit, a Cron is a f2 28mm. Big deal here.
I don't want to betray( or bad-mouthing) Epson again, they donated at least US $20,000 for our last group photo show.
Loretdem's 1st language is English, I lose right there. It's very hard for me, a Mandarin guy to type English. I visited US many times, 'improved' from beat the '****' to 'crap'.
I'm talking image quality and the cost of producing such images. He is talking about imitation film M method w digitals.
If he's happy, fine, football's on...

saxshooter · 01-03-2006

Phil, click stop at .5 meters would be great for me! I do lots of close foreground snapshots and I often inadvertantly back focus with the 15mm since there are no click focus stops on that lens and closer distances are not marked. I'll be posting the 15mm w corrected VF for sale here if I do!

pfogle · 01-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxshooter

Phil, click stop at .5 meters would be great for me! I do lots of close foreground snapshots and I often inadvertantly back focus with the 15mm since there are no click focus stops on that lens and closer distances are not marked. I'll be posting the 15mm w corrected VF for sale here if I do!

Hi Charlie (hope I got that right!),

yes, the 0.5m click is good, and so is the closest setting (0.3m - about 1ft) though to be honest, I find the DOF less than I expected - you still have to take a bit of care to get the forground sharp - and forget about bokeh! I'm thinking of carrying a bit of string of the right length to line up shots with a close foreground - like the old chain that came with the minox spy camera - remember those? You would dangle it onto a copy to get the right focus distance. A string with knots at 0.5m and 0.3m would be very useful, I think.

I'm planning to leave this lens on the camera for the next few weeks to get familiar with it. I've used wides before, but this is something else, particularly as it's not on an SLR body. I think you'd really notice the extra angle over the 15mm - I used to use the Sigma 15-30 at the wide end on my EOS 20D, and this is in another league.

rami G · 01-03-2006

just to add my own impressions from my new 12mm lens. This lens is so much better than the 15mm on the RD-1. I was using for a whole day the Leica Elmarit asph 21mm allong with the 12 and it was very hard for me to separate the pictures. The even illunation and low distortion makes it look on the 1.5 crop lack the typical wide angel look (which the 21 also lacks, even on film). the lens is an unbelivable bargain and with the useful 1600 iso of the RD-1 and very wide depth of field the combination is so useful that it is tempting just to leave it on the camera all the time. If Leica would not have been on News now with the M7D I would have definitely been tempted at that stage to get an extra RD-1 and to leave the 12mm on one body all the time.

pfogle · 01-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by rami G

just to add my own impressions from my new 12mm lens. This lens is so much better than the 15mm on the RD-1. I was using for a whole day the Leica Elmarit asph 21mm allong with the 12 and it was very hard for me to separate the pictures. The even illunation and low distortion makes it look on the 1.5 crop lack the typical wide angel look (which the 21 also lacks, even on film). the lens is an unbelivable bargain and with the useful 1600 iso of the RD-1 and very wide depth of field the combination is so useful that it is tempting just to leave it on the camera all the time. If Leica would not have been on News now with the M7D I would have definitely been tempted at that stage to get an extra RD-1 and to leave the 12mm on one body all the time.

Rami... couldn't agree more, except I can't see any way I will be able to afford a digital Leica in the next 2-3 years! But the thought of a 12mm on a 1.3 crop body

As an aside, does anyone know how the 12mm fares for diffraction? I'd have thought that below f8 it would fall off quite a bit, but I haven't seen any reports on this. For myself, I haven't shot below f8 yet; will try soon, time permitting.