Will FED3 Lenses work on an M39 Zenit?

[Kane77077]

Hello all.

I've lurked at this excellent forum for a few weeks after purchasing a FED3 through an online auction. (I haven't even recieved it yet, but I'm already itching to buy accessory lenses!)

I've read that the M39 LTM lenses for the early Zenit won't work properly on my FED3 and could even damage the camera because of a difference in the focal plane depth.

My question is this: Will the FED3 lenses work on a Zenit? That is - will the RF lenses work on an SLR?

(I'd like to buy an FSU SLR and thought that it might be nice to only need one set of lenses...)

Thanks in advance!

[Fred]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

From my rather limited knowledge I guess the film registration will be a mile out when using RF LTM lenses on an SLR as the lens mount to film plane distance will be much bigger with the Zenit than the FED.

LTM lenses (RF that is) may be very good for close up macro though (shorter lens - film registration mounted further away) as will the odd enlarger lens. The thing with the SLR is that you'll be able to focus be sight.

I wouldn't mind an old Zenit EM (M42) if I could find one local that still had a working meter.

[Scarpia]

I have both M49 Zenits and a Fed and a Zorki as well as three M39 Bessas. Certainly the RF lenses fit the Zenit and do not interfere with the mirror, but only focus to about a foot and a half or thereabouts due to the very different registration. The other way around, with a proper adapter (which I have) the M39 Zenit lenses work perfectly well with the RF's albeit with scale focussing only. I have used my M39 Helios 44 with adapter on several of my RF's with excellent results just for the fun of it. Some of the wide angle RF lenses might interfere with the Zenit mirror, however.
Kurt M.

[Nickfed]

Originally Posted by Kane77077

Hello all.

I've read that the M39 LTM lenses for the early Zenit won't work properly on my FED3 and could even damage the camera because of a difference in the focal plane depth.

My question is this: Will the FED3 lenses work on a Zenit? That is - will the RF lenses work on an SLR?

(I'd like to buy an FSU SLR and thought that it might be nice to only need one set of lenses...)

I understand the lens mount on the M-39 Zenit is in the same position as the M-42 model. Therefore, while the FED lens will screw on, it will be about 18mm too far from the film to focus on infinity. It will work as a macro lens, thereby focussing down to about 180mm, which could be pretty useful. Dont believe everything you read, I can't see how a Zenit lens could possibly damage the FED but putting some FED lenses, like a Jupiter-12, on a Zenit would not be a good idea.
I don't think the M-39 Zenit has any value more than as a curiosity.

[Scarpia]

Here is a scan I just made from a print dating from 2003. It is of a historic building in downtown Glens Falls NY that was saved from the wreckers ball during a 1960's urban renewal project. I took this picture with a Bessa L which is a 39mm LTM body and a Zenit Helios 44 M39 lens dating from 1962. I used a Kilfit adapter designed for use with a Kilfit lens originally designed as part of a system which functioned the same way as a visoflex. The adapter (and Kilfit 90mm lens) dates from 1952 and I have used that lens without that adapter and a 39 to 42mm adapter plus a 42mm (pentax mount) to Canon EOS adapter on my Rebel 2000. This is known as lens hacking and Bill Mattocks of this forum is quite an expert on it.
Kurt M.

[Kane77077]

Thank you all for the quick answers!

So, if I want to share the lenses between a FED3 (its a 3B, actually) and an early (M39) Zenit, I should buy the SLR lenses and an adapter to fit the FED 3?

I imagine I'll have a hard time locating a Kilfit adapter - is there one you suggest that might be more easily acquired?

[Scarpia]

This adapter and 90mm lens outfit which I bought used somewhere in Europe ca. 1964 is the only one I have ever seen. The adapter is the largest one of three macro rings that came with the lens but perfectly adapts to match a 39mm Zenit lens to a 39mm RF or an M mount RF with 39mm adapter. However there is another solution. If you have an Industar 50 (f3.5 50mm) RF lens (not the same lens in SLR mount or the collapsable RF version) unscrew the barrel piece. It will function equally well as such an adapter for the simple reason as the only difference between the RF version and the SLR version is the barrel piece and the RF cam. I know because I have the RF version and have done this. Unfortunately I cannot remove the RF cam as it is on too tight; if I could I could use the lens on my Zenit SLR and on my two Canon Rebels with the 39mm to 42mm adapter plus the 42mm to EOS adapter. I am not short of lenses but it would be fun to see what this Elmar clone could do on a modern SLR.
Kurt M.
P.S. I have used a Pentax SMC Takumar f1.4 50mm on my rebels with great results. No autofocus or AE, of course.

[Scarpia]

And here is a photo taken during some road repair in front of my summer home two years ago with my Rebel 2000 and the Kilfit lens with a short macro ring that came with the set and a 39 to 42mm adapter plus the 42mm to EOS adapter. The lens is a 90mm f3.5 and was manufactured exactly 50 years before the camera. Not great art but lots of fun.
Kurt M.

[Nickfed]

Originally Posted by Kane77077

Thank you all for the quick answers!

So, if I want to share the lenses between a FED3 (its a 3B, actually) and an early (M39) Zenit, I should buy the SLR lenses and an adapter to fit the FED 3?

I imagine I'll have a hard time locating a Kilfit adapter - is there one you suggest that might be more easily acquired?

I respectfully submit that this a truly stupid idea and you would be far better off relieving your bad case of GAS in a more sensible arena - like buying a proper SLR.

The Kilfitt adapter is a pointless exercise.

The SLR lens, any SLR lens, will not provide rangefinder coupling to your FED unless you get an adapter made with that facility. They exist. They cost serious dollars. It will be cheaper to buy a Summicron and getting the job done right in the first place.

The simplest solution is get a Leica thread extension tube 17.8mm long and forego the rangefinder coupling. Your chances of getting one are pretty well zilch, or maybe a bit less. Nobody will be dumb enough to make such a thing and getting one specially made will cost more than a new Industar-50, which is all you are likely to get from the Zenith, indeed more than a proper RF coupled Industar-50 complete with FED-3 serving as a rear cap.

If you really must tilt at this windmill, you can get a proper M-42 thread SLR. Adapters to fit M-42 > L-39 are freely availbale on eBay for about $10 - sans RF coupling, needless to say. There is some merit in this for wide angle lenses for the impecunious but it's not that good an idea. Trust me, I'm one who has done it, as the picture below shows.......

[Kane77077]

Originally Posted by Nickfed

I respectfully submit that this a truly stupid idea and you would be far better off relieving your bad case of GAS in a more sensible arena - like buying a proper SLR.

I appreciate your candor, and I know now what I need to do: buy lenses for the FED3 and buy lenses for whichever SLR I purchase.

Now, I realize this is the "RANGEFINDERforum", but which FSU SLR would you folks recommend?

[Nickfed]

The more modern Zenits are rare, not-so-cheap and I believe a bit of an unknown quantity. The standard old Zenit-B w/ 58mm f2 Helios is essentially an SLR Zorki-6 and equally plain-vanilla. They are ridiculously cheap and I suspect they simply don't attract the attention that the RF cameras get. This is probably because Japanese SLRs are so cheap anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if a Copal shutter Cosina comes for only a few dollars more and is a far better proposition than any FSU SLR.

[Scarpia]

I bought a Zenit 122 from E.P. Levine of Boston off their internet site two years ago. It came with a Helios 44-7 f2, 58mm lens and cost $49.95. It works perfectly and the lens (a 42mm pentax screw mount compatible) is excellent. But Nickfed is right. With proper serendipity you can do very well with a Russian LSR. But as a group they are not very reliable; you would be much better off with a Japanese LSR although all but the top of the line are today made elsewhere in the far east.
Kurt M.

[ErnestoJL]

I have a Zenit 12 XP which is working perfectly, with the exception of the TTL meter which is not working. I´ve bought it secondhand for about USD 30 (a fair price for a good lens with a metal body behind) and it was intended to be a backup body for all my other SLRs with M42 mount. Mechanically it´s not better than any other older Zenit, but far better than some newer ones like the Z 122 (or 122K with Pentax K mount) which have a lot of plastic (weak) parts both inside and outside. The Zeniths got a bad history of loose curtain stripes, of which I´ve seen some but not too many so as to be troubled by this fact. In fact if it ever breaks, you can replace it at a very low price.
In Favour: low price, if it works OK it will for a long time, lens is excellent (Helios 44M or 44MC), mechanics are very simple, there are lots of cheap M42 lens to dress it.
In against: reduced set of shutter speeds (B+1/30 to 1/500) slow speeds are at your fingertips. Body is heavy and mirror travel very noisy, finder is a dark in comparison with other japanese cameras. Mechanicaly it has some weak points, like the shutter trip that´s quite long, the auto iris is finger operated (it would lead to some blurred shots at low speed).

If you do not have an SLR, It´s Ok to start with a Zenith, then with that low price you can save some money from the beginning to buy lenses. Later if this arrangement fits your wishes, you can buy another M42 body, but perhaps a Pentax Spotmatic or a Cosina , or if you prefer something from behind the Iron Curtain, a Praktica Super TL or a newer type which are far better and featured than Zeniths.

Ernesto