Just How Reliable is a Leica ?

Picture Guy · 10-07-2003

This is NOT a flame. I 'd really like to hear some personal testimonials by Leica users.

Say I bought a brand new Leica MP, and gave it good care. How many years of trouble free operation can I reasonably anticipate? Say about 10 rolls a month?

5? 10? 15 ? 20?

When is first service due?

dll927 · 10-07-2003

First off, I think I'd go for the M7. It's the logical successor to the M6.

Servicing would depend largely on how much you use the camera. Going to the Leitz website should help on that one, and there may be other posters with ideas.

Reliability is a Leica trait. Have you seen the one about Gary Winogrand's M4? According to the story, it had had so much film run through it that there was an impression of the film on the metal pressure plate. I've seen many stories of Leicas being used in combat zones, for instance, and kept right on working, even when the exteriors were worn down to look, let's say, WELL used. Most of us don't put that kind of use on a camera, so if it can withstand that, the rest of us should do well.

Oldprof · 10-07-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by dll927
... Have you seen the one about Gary Winogrand's M4? According to the story, it had had so much film run through it that there was an impression of the film on the metal pressure plate ...

You can see this at:

http://cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm

SolaresLarrave · 10-07-2003

Leica resiliency is proverbial... in the non-metered models. There's a lot of talk now about the M6 meters going bunkus because of age (they started making the little gem in 1984), so talking about certain kinds of durability of M6 (and their different colors) and M7 can be tricky. Remember how delicate these electronic parts can be.

However, on the other hand, the bodies are built to last. You can hit a thief in the head with the same M6 he may want to steal from you and still have a working meter! I don't think that'd be the case with a M5, but...

In any case, Pic Guy, it all seems these cameras were made to last mechanically for years on end. Their electronics are another story. But then, many Leica owners aren't professional journalists, so they don't submit their gear to the extremes others did. I can't remember where I read, for instance, that the shutter in any given Leica should last 400,000 cycles before starting to fail. Imagine all the photos that these many operations take!

SolaresLarrave · 10-07-2003

To address your question...

Assuming 10 rolls per month, your batteries may last a bit less than a year. Now, service would be something to consider in about 10 or 15 years, if the M6 case should be considered an indication.

BTW, I have NO experience on these things yet. As you know, I have only a couple of weeks of having realized my Leica dream, but lots of months of preparation. Apparently, I'll have years of enjoyment. Take the plunge, my friend! You deserve it!

Heck!! Everybody here deserves one!

Oldprof · 10-07-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by SolaresLarrave
... Heck!! Everybody here deserves one!

Love your enthusiasm Francisco!

I hate to tell you this, but I have no desire to own a Leica. I know they're wonderful cameras, but I have always been the type of person who looks for an excellent price-performance ratio. On that basis, I don't go for Leica. On the other hand, you could argue that Leicas have greater resale value than just about anything else. But the initial investment is too steep for my sensibilities.

jdos2 · 10-07-2003

From what I've read, Leica has a 30 year parts collection- you'll be guaranteed parts for that long from the factory, in the event they stop making the MP.

Rich Silfver · 10-07-2003

How often would you send in a Lecia for CLA?
The only camera I have a regular service plan is my hassey and that's every 18 months.

Picture Guy · 10-08-2003

Francisco,

With my Bessa R 2 gear, I can ease into Leica "modularly", one component at a time!

I think the final determinate is just how good can I see through the machine with eyeglasses. I tried an M3, but it was a no go.

Anyway, it will be next year, at the earliest.

Sould have VC Ultron 35mm 1.7 in a day or two !!!!

znapschatz · 10-08-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by rsilfverberg
How often would you send in a Lecia for CLA?
The only camera I have a regular service plan is my hassey and that's every 18 months.

That's a lot of CLA for a Hasselblad

Mine goes in only when needed, except for the mags, which are on a 3 year schedule to change the dark slide light seals. I am not a great believer in preventative maintenance for photo gear. When cameras break, they get fixed or pitched. Other than that, they get to fend for themselves. The only exceptions are new used high end cameras because I don't know how much use, disuse or abuse they've had. Some of the best items I ever owned were bought cheap in non-functioning condition and brought back by CLA, which fixes almost anything. In fact, the only item I ever sent in for a PM CLA was a Nikon which was duly and permanently botched by Camtronics Camera & Video Repair in Columbus, OH ( Q: How can you tell I am still annoyed by this?).

Leicas can go for decades without service under "normal" use. If they have been exposed to a lot of photo-unfriendly environments, such as sea spray, sand etc., it might be a good idea to have them cleaned soon thereafter. Generally, however, when you get to know a camera well, it's easy to tell if there is something that requires attention.

The best thing you can do for a Leica is to use it. When you let cameras sit too long, lubricants tend to migrate and cause mischief. I am not at all surprised to learn that Gary Winogrand's M4 is still in use, even after the legendary workout he gave it.

There are no guarantees with machinery, however. I once owned a troublesome M4 and a bulletproof Ricoh, so go figure.

Doug · 10-09-2003

My M2 was made in 1957, and I got it in 1967. The previous owner may have been a pro, as it showed clear signs of use. I couldn't say how many rolls I've run through it in 35 years as an amateur... And this isn't my only camera.

It has needed two visits to the shop for RF misalignment. I noticed earlie this year that it had developed a slight squeak upon winding the film, of course unrepeatable in front of the service tech! So it went in for its first CLA this summer.

Oh, I paid $150 for the body at Olympic Camera in Seattle, so it's been a good value!

SolaresLarrave · 10-09-2003

Pic Guy,

I wanted to get into Leica the "modular way", like you, but I just got impatient and shot the moon.

Now... I'm really interested on the Ultron you mentioned. Please, report to us soon!

Thanks!

Picture Guy · 10-10-2003

Got Ultron TODAY! (Fast efficent service from Steve Gandy at Camera Quest.)

Looks solid, lens built like tank, focus smooth. The small lens hood slightly impinges on the 35mm frame. They have a cool looking square hood that might eliminate problem entirely for $49, which I forego for the momemt.

The only real test of a lens is color slide film, and I'm doing B & W at the moment.

It may be a few days.

SolaresLarrave · 11-06-2003

PicGuy, what kind of Ultron did you get, a black or a chrome one? What's the filter size? Is it 39mm too? Any chance to take a look at your shots?

kajabbi · 11-07-2003

My M3 was purchased in 1954. This year I found that the shutter was not opening at speeds of 1/500 and 1/1000. I sent it to Sherry for servive(whatever it needed). It was cleaned, relubricated, and adjusted to the original specs. It looks, and soundfs brand new. Now, if I can only live to 119 so I can have it CLA'd again.
I use m5s most of the time now and they all still work and sound like new. I did have the viewfinders replaced so I could take advantage of the 28Mm and 75MM framelines. the battery system neede to be changed to compensate for the demise of mercury batteries. The M5s are youngsters by comparason, be made in 1975.

jdos2 · 11-07-2003

The RB and Universals are on a 3 year schedule for back seals. The lenses go when the "one second" setting takes two to close the shutter.

I never do anything with the Kievs- they are all broken. I'm getting one (next week!!) that's been tuned by a pro, so I will do maintenance on it.

The Leica- I had one with lots of troubles- lenses, shutter problems, finder difficulties. All machines have trouble. The Leica was no more reliable than any other older camera- I just sort of accept it.

The fixer is thrown out when I can't clear Illford 3200 in less than 20 minutes.

Developer, when it turns brown.

POP I throw out when it turns really yellow or won't print a decent negative in less than an hour (my attention span).

I'll repolish my daguerrian plates, though.

Everything wears out.

Picture Guy · 11-07-2003

Francisco,

I got the black Ultron 35mm 1.7. Looks cool!

I just sent the first slide test roll out, be a few days to get back.

Sorry to hear about the M6 , is it going back a SECOND time?

saldimarcojr · 11-10-2003

In 1968 when I got my first two Leicas, I asked how often they needed regular service. The answer was "every five years unless you spend a lot of time in the desert or do something stupid." I was a photographer for a major metropolitan daily back then, and I'm a magazine photojournalist now. I still try to follow that advice. Happy Snaps, Sal

back alley · 11-10-2003

hey sal,
welcome to the forum.

good to have a 'pro' here, maybe we can learn something from you. no pressure...

joe