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Old 01-08-2013   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post
Apart from the humor factor 3/4...
Color shift :
In digital times of manual white balance (you all do it, right !??) this should be a totally moot point.
I also feel that when posting such a high caliber review/test you should at least get your "its" and "it's" sorted out.
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Old 01-08-2013   #42
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despite some legitimate factual gripes, lenses not being calibrated, etc., i still appreciate that Kristian's effort and the fact that he put it up.
Exactly. In the past he would have posted it here, but he's learned his lesson. You cannot make RFF happy when it comes to loosely constructed tests. Everybody expects perfection instead of just being happy that someone did something for fun.
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Old 01-08-2013   #43
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i wish i could just ban picky people...i can't believe some of the 'complaints' listed here...
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Old 01-08-2013   #44
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Exactly. In the past he would have posted it here, but he's learned his lesson. You cannot make RFF happy when it comes to loosely constructed tests. Everybody expects perfection instead of just being happy that someone did something for fun.
and for free, Its hard to understand the bashing on the net.
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Old 01-08-2013   #45
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There may be a certain amount of envy for anyone who can get their hands on that lot.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 01-08-2013   #46
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I used to have a Noctilux 1/50. Nice lens, but I sold it and switched to a Summilux for several reasons.

- It was too big and heavy for everyday use.

- The focus throw was very long, making it difficult to react quickly

- DOF at f1 and 1m was about 1cm. If you and your subject did not synchronize your breathing the highlight on their pupil would be out of focus. I also refuse to stop drinking coffee. I found f1 to be most usable with the talent being at least 2m away.

- The Noct basically does not flare, even under extreme circumstances, which can make the images it produces look somewhat sterile.

- The bokeh was unpredictable. It ranged from liquid to schizophrenic. Somehow it reminded be of the signature of a Sonnar, which can also be erratic. I prefer the bokeh of the .95 Noct, which appears to be more predictable

I found the 50 Lux to offer a perfect balance of sharpness, tonality, size and speed.

I sometimes miss the Noct. It was unique, but unless I hit the lottery it's too expensive a piece of gear to use on that rare occasion, where its qualities are called for.

I've considered a few more affordable alternatives, notably the Sonnar-C 1.5/50, the Nikkor 1.2/55 and 58mm and the new Nocton 1.1/50
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Old 01-08-2013   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
There may be a certain amount of envy for anyone who can get their hands on that lot.

Cheers,

R.
I agree with you Roger.
There is no doubt that these lenses are beautiful and impressive.
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Old 01-08-2013   #48
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Ah Raid, you have nice stuff... don't sweat it!
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Old 01-08-2013   #49
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Thanks to Kristian for sharing this. Some of the used gear probably will never end up in most people's hands, so it's fantastic to see, what these lenses look like (and who the f cares about laboratory approved rigging - seriously be grateful for what you got to see and stop moaning this and that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
Does anyone here own the Nokton and uses it on an M9 or Monochrom? I've been sitting on the fence about buying one, as the Noctilux is out of reach at the moment (spent all my $$$ on the Monochrom!).

Regardless of its more affordable price, is it a good lens?
Vince, I can't help with the Nokton, as I didn't shoot one long enough to get a opinion on it's imaging but I do have a 50/1 v4 and an older v2 50 Summilux and can tell you, that they share a lot of similarities in rendering @ƒ1.4 and ƒ2.

If the budget isn't covering a Noctilux, a v2 Summilux (in any of it's many guises) is a fantastic lens, to use instead.

As I commented - similarities.
You won't get the shallow DOF, if that's what you're after, you won't get the 1 stop more light (with the Mono though I find, that ƒ1.4 lenses really allow to shoot in the deep night, where the Noctilux was my most used low light lens on the M8 and M9).

You won't get the look with strong vignetting, as any of the ƒ1 Noctilux lenses will give (and no, this specific look cannot be done in post processing, one can only ape it, if that's, what is wanted, but it will never look the same).

The files though have remarkable similarities in detail and rendering, especially around ƒ2.

You won't get the very smooth background rendering with the Summilux - it somehow seems more distracting @ ƒ1.4 (which is, where I don't like the v2 Summilux lens actually - the v2 Summilux really, really sings @ ƒ2, where I just adore it).
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Old 01-09-2013   #50
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"There is a persistant opinion, reproduced in almost all publications, that the Noctilux has only special qualities at full aperture and is not useable at smaller apertures. That is definitely not true. The original Noctilux 1,2/50mm (the one with the aspherical surfaces) recorded image outlines with medium to high contrast, but lost out in the recording of fine image details. When stopping down the image quality did not improve very much. It might be possible that these characteristics have been projected into the new Noctilux-M 1.0/50 because the name is the same. The latter lens however is a quantum leap better than its illustrious predecessor."

Erwin Puts on the Noct 1.0

The Noct 1.0 is underrated in Kristians comparison, IMO. It is large and heavy, but not a one-stop lens.

This one was f:2.8 (1/4000 ISO 320, MM), I had to stop down (no ND filter)


100% crop
coat.jpg

Stopped down to f:5.6 it is still really sharp (1/1000 sec, ISO 320)
L1001606.jpg

100% crop
hat.jpg

What drives me nuts sometimes is the field curvature, making it very hard to compose sometimes.

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Old 01-09-2013   #51
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What, no SLR Magic lens in the mix?
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Old 01-09-2013   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Ah Raid, you have nice stuff... don't sweat it!
Yes, I have wonderful "stuff". I do not miss having the exotic lenses, such as a 60/1.2 Konica or a 50/1.2 Leica lens. I still have my 75/1.4 Lux and 35/1.4 Lux and 50/2 Summicron and other "lower cost items", as compared with the prices of the ultra fast lenses shown in this thread.

Most of the times, I prefer using f 8.0 anyways.
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Old 01-09-2013   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C_R View Post
"There is a persistant opinion, reproduced in almost all publications, that the Noctilux has only special qualities at full aperture and is not useable at smaller apertures. That is definitely not true. The original Noctilux 1,2/50mm (the one with the aspherical surfaces) recorded image outlines with medium to high contrast, but lost out in the recording of fine image details. When stopping down the image quality did not improve very much. It might be possible that these characteristics have been projected into the new Noctilux-M 1.0/50 because the name is the same. The latter lens however is a quantum leap better than its illustrious predecessor."

Erwin Puts on the Noct 1.0
Carsten, my experience aligns with Erwin Puts on the f1.2. Those that understand optics could explain it better, but stuff in the background had a swirl that didn't progress in a uniform way across the frame. Neither did resolution. It was plenty sharp (for me) in the center 1/3 at f1.2, but if your subject was outside that area, resolution dropped off quickly. The f1 noctilux has a similar problem with curvature of field, but it seemed more uniform and workable to me.
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Old 01-09-2013   #54
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Quote:
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Carsten, my experience aligns with Erwin Puts on the f1.2. Those that understand optics could explain it better, but stuff in the background had a swirl that didn't progress in a uniform way across the frame. Neither did resolution. It was plenty sharp (for me) in the center 1/3 at f1.2, but if your subject was outside that area, resolution dropped off quickly. The f1 noctilux has a similar problem with curvature of field, but it seemed more uniform and workable to me.
i believe Carsten was defending the f/1, not disagreeing with what Puts said about the f/1.2.

i thought he was trying to illustrate that it was not a one-trick pony, but maybe i'm wrong?

as for the curvature of field, that's one of the reasons i love it
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Old 01-09-2013   #55
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A couple of comments:

1) Kristian's shots are out of focus. And the DOF of fast 50s being "so thin" is a poor excuse. Normal short teles (85 or 90/2) have a thinner DOF and are harder to focus, and many of us use these routinely. Since using digital, he could chimp, had a model that he could ask to move, etc., not exactly a "decisive shot" scenario ....

2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by C_R View Post
The Noct 1.0 is underrated in Kristians comparison, IMO. It is large and heavy, but not a one-stop lens.
Agree. I'm a firm believer that the fast Mandler lenses are made for general purpose medium to far distance, journalistic type shooting. Even though everybody talks about wide open bokeh at close focus when "testing" them, in these conditions, they all develop swirly bokeh, veiling flare, etc. Dirk: the strength of the Summilux v2 at f1.4 is contrast, center resolution and lack of coma at far distances ....

3) Want a fast lens for hand holding in available light ? Get the 35/1.2. Beats anything Kristian tested due to the wider FOV. DOF is easier to handle, too.

4) Want to get close for portraits, etc ? Use a 75/1.4 with 0.7m min. focus. Wine bottles, etc., help

5) Mike: I still cann't believe you didn't let me play with your 50/1.2. Found that old shot of you using the 50/1 ....



Shot with a slow 21/4, BTW

Roland.
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Old 01-09-2013   #56
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The patches are shdows from the trees LHS, in front light with dodging and upped contrast for the foreground and house area. I liked the kind of surreal look. Just wanted to show the sharpness around f:2.8.


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Old 01-09-2013   #57
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Quote:
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...as for the curvature of field, that's one of the reasons i love it
why ? Field curvature makes it difficult to predict what is in focus and what is not.
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Old 01-09-2013   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
5) Mike: I still cann't believe you didn't let me play with your 50/1.2.

Roland.
I emailed you, but you wouldn't trade me your Nikkor 3.5cm f1.8 for it!

And that photo was taken when a used noctilux was over-priced at $2000.
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Old 01-09-2013   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C_R View Post
why ? Field curvature makes it difficult to predict what is in focus and what is not.
part of the fun

seriously, it adds a certain je ne sais quoi to an image that i adore... plus, i really can pretty much predict what will be in focus as i've used the lens so much. fast focusing moving objects in low light and obviously subpar handholding skills, make field of curvature the least of my worries.

btw, love the lens at f/2.8 as well -- especially at nearest focusing.
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Old 01-10-2013   #60
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Wow, it's been a while since I've been here, and nice to see people are enjoying it. I know it's not the greatest article but I did the best with the time I had, I can assure you. Would have loved to do some night work too. Cheers guys
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Old 01-10-2013   #61
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Most of my shots were in focus. Steve chose the samples to show, not me. Those 100% crops he showed were shot around minimum distance and I just did not have the time to focus bracket to ensure accurate focus all the time.

When it comes to focusing an M, I can assure you, I sorta know what i'm doing, and many of those shots were taken in a rush, and only 1 frame.

Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, I can't please everyone


Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
A couple of comments:

1) Kristian's shots are out of focus. And the DOF of fast 50s being "so thin" is a poor excuse. Normal short teles (85 or 90/2) have a thinner DOF and are harder to focus, and many of us use these routinely. Since using digital, he could chimp, had a model that he could ask to move, etc., not exactly a "decisive shot" scenario ....

2)



Agree. I'm a firm believer that the fast Mandler lenses are made for general purpose medium to far distance, journalistic type shooting. Even though everybody talks about wide open bokeh at close focus when "testing" them, in these conditions, they all develop swirly bokeh, veiling flare, etc. Dirk: the strength of the Summilux v2 at f1.4 is contrast, center resolution and lack of coma at far distances ....

3) Want a fast lens for hand holding in available light ? Get the 35/1.2. Beats anything Kristian tested due to the wider FOV. DOF is easier to handle, too.

4) Want to get close for portraits, etc ? Use a 75/1.4 with 0.7m min. focus. Wine bottles, etc., help

5) Mike: I still cann't believe you didn't let me play with your 50/1.2. Found that old shot of you using the 50/1 ....



Shot with a slow 21/4, BTW

Roland.
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Old 01-10-2013   #62
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Wow, it's been a while since I've been here, and nice to see people are enjoying it. I know it's not the greatest article but I did the best with the time I had, I can assure you. Would have loved to do some night work too. Cheers guys
thank you, again, Kristian.

it would be great if you could do some nighttime shots with the Monochrom, with a comparison of lenses you own (or have at hand). i know you have some fast ones in your arsenal, even if they're not the same focal length.

thank you!
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Old 01-10-2013   #63
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Quote:
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thank you, again, Kristian.

it would be great if you could do some nighttime shots with the Monochrom, with a comparison of lenses you own (or have at hand). i know you have some fast ones in your arsenal, even if they're not the same focal length.

thank you!
I may have access to these lenses some time soon so I'll see what I can do. Right now I have the Nokton 35/1.2 II as usual and the Rigid Summicron. May have access to some of those lenses soon. Without a doubt, the two Hexanons are extremely special and my favorites in the review. I wouldn't really use the 1956 V1 for color though. But in Monochrome it is gorgeous with the right light to make it's personality sing. The V2 is a no compromise legend that delivers. On the Mononchrom these lenses perform better than they ever have, on any camera.
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Old 01-10-2013   #64
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I may have access to these lenses some time soon so I'll see what I can do. Right now I have the Nokton 35/1.2 II as usual and the Rigid Summicron. May have access to some of those lenses soon. Without a doubt, the two Hexanons are extremely special and my favorites in the review. I wouldn't really use the 1956 V1 for color though. But in Monochrome it is gorgeous with the right light to make it's personality sing. The V2 is a no compromise legend that delivers. On the Mononchrom these lenses perform better than they ever have, on any camera.
thank you! i would be quite happy to even see the two lenses you mentioned right now -- at night, on the Monochrom... you've been tempting me with the 25/1.2 for long enough, lol! as for the Cron, is that a Rigid you're talking about? seriously, i would love to see some night images from both.

and i agree that the Monochrom *does* seems to bring out the full characteristics of older lenses! i think i may actually prefer them to the newer, but i'm still in the very early days... (speaking of character, i actually think i may have preferred the earlier Hexanon -- it seemed more dreamy wide open.)
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Old 01-10-2013   #65
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Thanks Kristian for taking the time, preparing this and sharing the outcome!

Some very, very special lenses there, and yes, night shots we all want to see ;-)
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