Bronica ETRS(i) or Mamiya M645?

[kuzano]

Originally Posted by Spanik

I do have a 55mm leaf shutter lens for my camera. It works fine without a dual release and without the umbilical cord.

You can use it manually, by cocking it with the ring at the front of the lens and then it works automatically if you put the camera slower than 1/8s as it is actuated by the diaphragm lever. If you use the umbilical cord with the WG401 (?) grip, then the cocking is motorised and powered by the grip.

If you need a dual release, Pentacon made one to be used when you do macro with and inverted lens. They had an adaptor ring that actuated the diaphragm.

Good to know... thanks for that. I have a 70mm Mamiya 645 Leaf lens, and I have never been able to get it to work.

[efix]

Thanks for your input, everyone! I am watching a Bronica ETRS w/ 120 back and 75/2.8 lens and an M645 1000s with 80/2.8 lens right now. Both with metered prism finder, but the M645 also has an extra waist level finder. Both are in good condition according to the repsective seller. We'll see which one I'll end up with :-)

[sevo]

Originally Posted by kuzano

Good to know... thanks for that. I have a 70mm Mamiya 645 Leaf lens, and I have never been able to get it to work.

Just dug out mine. Quick how-to: Set it to A on the tiny tab next to the cable release socket, set a time (between 1/500 and 1/30) on the front ring, cock it with the cocking tabs right behind the front ring, check that the camera shutter is to a time longer than 1/30, and release. To bypass the leaf shutter, set the time ring on lens to F and cock the lens. The cable release is only needed in M/MU mode, which operates like the mirror unlock mode on the RB/RZ, and with the same double cable release (or by releasing the camera, set to B, on the body, holding down the camera release knob until you have tripped the lens shutter cable release).

[RObert Budding]

I'd go with the Bronica because of the leaf shutters (leaf shutters on the Mamiya are a real kludge). As for lens quality - the later Bronica lenses are very nice. You'll see a huge improvement over 35mm when factoring in lesser enlargement.

[kuzano]

Mamiya in the "tank" M model 645s used film inserts... no removable backs. you can preload and carry inserts but once they are in the camera, no mid roll changes. The next model, the Super had issues in the electronics of the shutter. I experience two bad ones.

The next evolusion of the Mamiya 645 was the Pro, and was a good camera, AND the first Mamiya 645 with a fully removable film back and dark slide for mid roll changes. Mid roll changing was not really an issue for me. Usually shot full rolls when I was using Mamiya's.

The Bronica's... ETR, ETRS, and ETRSi all used fully removable/dark slide type backs. There were single latch backs and double latch backs. They were all fine for me, but references show a preference for the dual latch backs.

[ruby.monkey]

Don't forget the ETRC - also restricted to film inserts, but it might offer a cheap route to ETRS-level Bronica love.

[Spanik]

The next evolusion of the Mamiya 645 was the Pro, and was a good camera, AND the first Mamiya 645 with a fully removable film back and dark slide for mid roll changes.

The Super was the first one with removable backs and mid-roll change. As a fact, it uses the same backs as the Pro/ProTL. Th inserts inside the removable backs are the same as used in the older series 645.

The problematic electronics of the Super is an often returning point. So far I haven't had any issues.

[pdh]

Originally Posted by kuzano

The Bronica ETRsi camera is much lighter than the early M645 cameras and a bit smaller.

Really?

I'm also sniffing around after a 645-format camera and it was my impression that the M645J was pretty much the most compact of the "boxy" types.

Having said that, it is hard to get a sense without handling them, and it's difficult to find either except online these days

[ruby.monkey]

Put a waist-level finder and an 80mm f/2.8 on it, and the Mamiya 645 Pro is a compact little package. Even the earlier M645 series are reasonably small in that configuration.

[slappyfin3]

sorry for the shameless plug (moderator please delete this if it's inappropriate)

if the poster, or anyone on this forum for that matter, is interested in a Mamiya 645 1000s I have one with the 80mm 1.9 lens and a waist-level finder that I'm thinking of selling. Let me know if you're interested!

[Spanik]

The M645J with nothing else than the waist level viewfinder is the lightest of the whole Mamiya 645 range. If you want a prism then the 645E is the lightest option but you loose the option of changing the viewfinder and back.

[Evanjoe610]

I agree that the Mamiya 645 and the 1000S were TANKs in its quality built and weight. With the eyelevel prism (Not the meter version) and the removable WLF, it is a superb beginner camera body that has a straight path for future upgrades to the Mamiya 645 Pro.

If you must have flash synch at all shutter speed, then the Bronica ERTSi is the way top go. My brother-in-law has the Bronica ERTSi with 3 lenses. He was pleasd with this option and also with the removable back. I sold a 3 lens setup for a Hassleblad 500CM to him and he never touched the Bronica ERTSi again.

In the end, the final decision you made will have to last you till you have additional cash in the future to either upgrade or go onto another system.

Sometime in near term future some thoughts to ponder: if you continue with a Mamiya 645 system, the better lenses available are the 35mm N, 50mm Shift, 80mmF1.9, 110mmF2.8, 145mm SF, 150mmF2.8 N, and the 200mmF2.8.

Originally Posted by kuzano

Mamiya in the "tank" M model 645s used film inserts... no removable backs. you can preload and carry inserts but once they are in the camera, no mid roll changes. The next model, the Super had issues in the electronics of the shutter. I experience two bad ones.

The next evolusion of the Mamiya 645 was the Pro, and was a good camera, AND the first Mamiya 645 with a fully removable film back and dark slide for mid roll changes. Mid roll changing was not really an issue for me. Usually shot full rolls when I was using Mamiya's.

The Bronica's... ETR, ETRS, and ETRSi all used fully removable/dark slide type backs. There were single latch backs and double latch backs. They were all fine for me, but references show a preference for the dual latch backs.

[Spanik]

Sometime in near term future some thoughts to ponder: if you continue with a Mamiya 645 system, the better lenses available are the 35mm N, 50mm Shift, 80mmF1.9, 110mmF2.8, 145mm SF, 150mmF2.8 N, and the 200mmF2.8.

I find that a strange selection. Probably because it isn't really my range of focal lengths (the long ones). But I'll consider them as "to look out for" on your recommendation.

[efix]

The Mamiya 645 1000s it is. Got a very good deal on it.

[Peter_wrote:]

congrats! have a lot of fun!

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Evanjoe610

Sometime in near term future some thoughts to ponder: if you continue with a Mamiya 645 system, the better lenses available are the 35mm N, 50mm Shift, 80mmF1.9, 110mmF2.8, 145mm SF, 150mmF2.8 N, and the 200mmF2.8.

All M645 Sekor 35mm versions have the same schematics - the only thing the N will give you there are better coatings (and in the final revision, doing away with the annoying silver trim on the focus ring). The 45mm is the one that was completely redesigned between C and N. The 80mm f/1.9 is the speed king in medium format, but if small DOF is not your primary concern, any of the other normals is just as good, each of them strongest in one discipline - the 80mm/2.8 N is the highest contrast, the 80mm Macro the highest resolution and the 70mm/2.8 is a true normal (i.e. with the focal length the same as the format diagonal).

The 145SF is nice and the bokeh king of them all, but with so much focus shift that it has (and needs) a extra (barrel push) stop-down mechanism for focusing. Personally I find it near impossible to use outside bright sunlight or studio light situations.

[Prest_400]

I looked around KEH and the prices scream bargain! However, for us on the other side of the pond it might not be feasible accounting shipping + customs.

Have researched both systems and believe that any you choose are great. Afterall, even after many decades and the digital revolution; they are still pro cameras and some of the best in it's day.

[Spanik]

If you look around a bit then you can find them as bargains in Europe as well. Some people want to get rid of those cameras. Paid 175 euro for a (dusty) fully functioning 645J with a plain prism and a mint 80 N macro. You don't find those every day but if pays if you're not in a hurry.

[efix]

It has arrived, lo and behold! (Just a quick Insta snap and size comparison with my minute Contax T)



Quickly went through the manual and loaded it with a roll of Fomapan 400 last night. Can't wait to properly test it, but that won't be before the weekend.

EDIT: My son's (4 yrs) first comment when I took a quick snap of him this morning was: "Wow, this is making a lot of noise!" Indeed it is :-)

[Spanik]

Looks in good shape. Have fun with it.

My son's (4 yrs) first comment when I took a quick snap of him this morning was: "Wow, this is making a lot of noise!" Indeed it is :-)

Just use a Kiev 60 next time, then he'll know what noise is

[efix]

Proof that I'm actually using it:


Selfie with the M645 by efixphoto, on Flickr

[Johnmcd]

Originally Posted by mfogiel

MF20122801 by mfogiel, on Flickr

I am in love.

[Spanik]

Don't know if you're in love with the model or the camera but it is a gorgeous shot.

Got a 80N/L and 150N/L last week. Still have to check them but they are in splendid condition. Next on the list is the 145SF. Have been reading nice things about that one. Then I'll need some longer focal lenghts.

[Johnmcd]

Originally Posted by Spanik

Don't know if you're in love with the model or the camera but it is a gorgeous shot.

Got a 80N/L and 150N/L last week. Still have to check them but they are in splendid condition. Next on the list is the 145SF. Have been reading nice things about that one. Then I'll need some longer focal lenghts.

Both Beautiful combination.

[cary]

I used the Bronica ETRSi for fifteen years five days a week, running between five and fifteen rolls a day, as an Industrial/Scientific photographer. Never had a problem.