Old 12-12-2012   #81
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I thought we already determined that both of you are correct?
Yes, it has been established that both NicoM and I are correct.
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Old 12-12-2012   #82
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Yes, it has been established that both NicoM and I are correct.
no...both of you are just making up stuff. i am the only person who has actually made any sort of calculations-----thus making me most correct, obviously
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Old 12-12-2012   #83
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no...both of you are just making up stuff. i am the only person who has actually made any sort of calculations-----thus making me most correct, obviously
You seem to be reality challenged!
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Old 12-12-2012   #84
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nah, you are all wrong, the actual market price for used M8s is $8.902.972.50

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Old 12-12-2012   #85
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You seem to be reality challenged!
lol @ the person who is exaggerating claims calling the person who evaluated the numbers "reality challenged". that's rich.
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Old 12-12-2012   #86
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Average price for M8 & 9 in the last month.
13 No. M8 & 21 No M9.
Ebay completed listings.
Worldwide from Ebay UK.
M8 £1186.00
M9 £2651.00

Interesting.
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Old 12-12-2012   #87
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lol @ the person who is exaggerating claims calling the person who evaluated the numbers "reality challenged". that's rich.
Wow, don't get too heated up. Like I said earlier, there's no point in arguing about this anymore. No one is going to change anyone's mind. I just know that I won't ever consider buying an M8 in the $1800-1900 price range, because I've seen cameras that were $1600 as they were available, multiple times. Your experience may be different. It's whatever.

Since you're helping your friend look for an M8, I'd encourage you to look out for the low prices. Another camera just went for $1,650 today. Not mint, but not bad at all. An M8 also went for $1700 yesterday with a few extras. The second one is a little beat u though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-10-...item2ec4608dfc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-10-...item35c275318e
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Old 12-12-2012   #88
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Originally Posted by Clark.EE View Post
Average price for M8 & 9 in the last month.
13 No. M8 & 21 No M9.
Ebay completed listings.
Worldwide from Ebay UK.
M8 £1186.00
M9 £2651.00

Interesting.
Sorry for the lack of knowledge of conversion to USD but what does that mean in USD? Like the fact that its making the M9 more financially accessible for me though lens will always be premium.... thanks
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Old 12-12-2012   #89
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Sorry for the lack of knowledge of conversion to USD but what does that mean in USD?

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=GBP&To=USD
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Old 12-12-2012   #90
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Wow, don't get too heated up. Like I said earlier, there's no point in arguing about this anymore. No one is going to change anyone's mind. I just know that I won't ever consider buying an M8 in the $1800-1900 price range, because I've seen cameras that were $1600 as they were available, multiple times. Your experience may be different. It's whatever.

Since you're helping your friend look for an M8, I'd encourage you to look out for the low prices. Another camera just went for $1,650 today. Not mint, but not bad at all. An M8 also went for $1700 yesterday with a few extras. The second one is a little beat u though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-10-...item2ec4608dfc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-10-...item35c275318e

I think there may be a need for a buyers service to help those who are not very savvy shoppers (the sticker-payers). Maybe we can team up on the venture?
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Old 01-04-2013   #91
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Just a quick update, to show that patience can pay off...

I missed the pretty nice M8 that went for $1325 in the classifieds here a few weeks back - I wasn't paying attention! But a couple of weeks ago, I did find a very nice one with about 6500 shots on it for about $1125 ( after accounting for a few extras that came with it). It may need some pixels mapped eventually if I want to use high ISO a lot without tweaking with Pixel Fixer, but since I'll mostly use it for IR, I doubt it will prove too much trouble.

I watched a lot of them sit unsold at $1700 plus, but I think sellers will eventually realize the trend and prices will settle a couple hundred lower than that. It's a pretty good time to get into an M8 if you can live with its idiosyncrasies!

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Old 01-04-2013   #92
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Just a quick update, to show that patience can pay off...

I missed the pretty nice M8 that went for $1325 in the classifieds here a few weeks back - I wasn't paying attention! But a couple of weeks ago, I did find a very nice one with about 6500 shots on it for about $1125 ( after accounting for a few extras that came with it). It may need some pixels mapped eventually if I want to use high ISO a lot without tweaking with Pixel Fixer, but since I'll mostly use it for IR, I doubt it will prove too much trouble.

I watched a lot of them sit unsold at $1700 plus, but I think sellers will eventually realize the trend and prices will settle a couple hundred lower than that. It's a pretty good time to get into an M8 if you can live with its idiosyncrasies!

"after accounting for extras"? what does that mean? where did you buy it and what was the actual buying price?

98% of the M8s are STILL selling for over $1700. So your deal, if that's what you paid for it....is not typical for sure.

http://www.ebay.com/csc/Digital-Came...H_Sold=1&rt=nc
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Old 01-04-2013   #93
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"after accounting for extras"? what does that mean? where did you buy it and what was the actual buying price?
That means I subtracted the value of added accessories from the selling price, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
98% of the M8s are STILL selling for over $1700. So your deal, if that's what you paid for it....is not typical for sure.

http://www.ebay.com/csc/Digital-Came...H_Sold=1&rt=nc
I'm not going to bother analyzing eBay sales, but your link shows a lot of them selling for < $1500 to 1700. But in the end you are right that a lot sell for over $1700 (though I question your 98% estimate).

I just wanted to update this to show that I was able to find one at what I consider a pretty good price.

EDIT: Though my price doesn't look that great after finding this!! : http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEICA-STEEL-...item35c25f863b

Last edited by gdi : 01-04-2013 at 15:23.
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Old 01-04-2013   #94
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This is still an issue?
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Old 01-04-2013   #95
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Just bought my M8 last week from a dealer (LCE with 6 months warranty) for £1200 with the Leica M8 grip and original base. Boxed with spare battery etc. great condition and 10200 actuations. Very pleased with it.

When I got it the box had £1695 on the price sticker, so must have been in their stock for a while!
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Old 01-06-2013   #96
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so where do we think M9 prices will settle after the new-m is released?
my guess is around $3.5k - anyone else?
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Old 01-06-2013   #97
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so where do we think M9 prices will settle after the new-m is released? my guess is around $3.5k - anyone else?
Many of the posts in this thread talk about pricing on ebay. The problem that I see with ebay is the credibility of the vendors related to their quality ratings of the cameras. A camera in excellent condition according to a vendor on ebay may not receive so high of a quality rating from credible vendors like KEH, Adorama, or B&H Photo. The nice aspect of ebay, though, is that they represent a more fluid market. If the three vendors I just mentioned all set their prices high, it may take weeks before they lower their prices in response to market forces. Whereas ebay prices change with each 'auction' -- albeit not always justifiably.

I would re-articulate your question, lhotse, in two basic ways: what do you think will be the average price of a Leica M9 camera in any functioning condition in the coming months on ebay; and, what do you think will be the average price be of a Leica M9 camera in excellent condition on sites like KEH?

For some, the lowest price to be found for an M9 in reasonably good condition is fine. In which case, an ebay purchase may be their better choice. With such a wide range of qualities on ebay, I think it's difficult to say with probability of accuracy what the average price might be.

For me, for such a large purchase, I prefer to buy an M9 from a vendor like KEH and I'd prefer that its condition be at least what they would classify as excellent or thereabout. They had one in EX- condition that they priced at $4200 a few weeks ago. So I think soon they will be selling ones in excellent condition for $4000, maybe as low as $3800. I hope, though, that they will go to $3500 as you suggest. That would be sweet. It would make my life easier.
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Old 01-06-2013   #98
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Man, everything I don't like about RFF going on in this stream ...

Let me try to change to flow ... Here's an eBay listing for an M9P. I have absolutely no part in the sale--and would have already snapped it up if I weren't waiting to see what the M holds.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370701164076...84.m1438.l2649
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Old 01-06-2013   #99
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I get a very negative vib from this post,think it is time to log off.
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Old 01-07-2013   #100
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I prefer to buy an M9 from a vendor like KEH and I'd prefer that its condition be at least what they would classify as excellent or thereabout. They had one in EX- condition that they priced at $4200 a few weeks ago. So I think soon they will be selling ones in excellent condition for $4000, maybe as low as $3800. I hope, though, that they will go to $3500 as you suggest. That would be sweet. It would make my life easier.
...like this silver one at adorama for $3.999? it's the first sub $4k I see on a main vendor.
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Old 01-07-2013   #101
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When you buy something that costs 4-6 times the cost of comparable products, I guess you do have to watch the prices closely because you are holding a ticking time bomb of devaluation. Three philosophies that will help avoid this "stock market" watching:

1. When you buy high quality, just assume it will last longer for you, and ignore the higher cost. Keep it as long as you can keep using it. My Toyota 1995 4Runner cost me $15,000 in 1996. I sold it a few months ago for $7,000. Yeah it depreciated, but I used it for my kids young years, road trips, hunting, 4WD boondoggles, and we put 260,000 miles on it with no repairs. If you buy an M-9, just keep it and quit sweating it.

2. Buy at the bottom of the depreciation curve. I never can figure out people that upgrade every 6 months (see above). But they usually are buying the Next New Thing at the highest price, then scrambling to sell it before it depreciates. I get the second or third older model. My G1 has been a great digital....at about $200. So buy that M8 or M9 when the next model comes out.

3. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Why get a M9 for 3-4-5 thousand, when you can get an Olympus OM-D, Fujifilm x100, X-E1 for $1000? Or is price discussion the main point of an M8 or M9? Buy the Toyota, not the Ferrari.
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Old 01-07-2013   #102
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Buy the Toyota, not the Ferrari.

But then you're stuck DRIVING a Toyota!
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Old 01-10-2013   #103
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there was one at keh.com yesterday for $3650, BGN, black. lowest price I've seen so far. tried to buy it but just couldn't: blocked card because I had done a $5 purchase of two popsicles 10mins before and the credit card company thought it was "suspect activity" to right afterwards make such an expensive purchase... pissed off but laughing at the ridiculous situation.
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Old 01-17-2013   #104
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No one has considered the economy. Everything is a little cheaper in a sagging economy.
The economy seems to be picking up (realistically or not) and as that perception holds, consumer confidence picks up. Therefore, sagging M8 prices and even M9 for that matter are now beginning to tighten up.

As for the merits of the M8, it is true that the M9 has a better sensor, better higher ISO and is full frame. But the M8 will remain the IR king for now due to its weaker AA filter and consequent higher IR sensitivity. I've just started to play with IR and the M8 is producing amazing results.
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Old 01-17-2013   #105
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Can I hire the $3,500 M9 people to scout one for me? I offer $150 finder fee :P
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Old 01-17-2013   #106
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I wonder that the recent price drop of used Leica digital dody is probably because of Fuji X. A friend of mine sold M9 and his 2 Leica lenses a few months after he got X Pro1 and then he got X100. He said he doesn't love Fuji X as much as his M9, but the image quality is on par or better than M9 with cron. AF is OK, he said.
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Old 01-17-2013   #107
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I wonder that the recent price drop of used Leica digital dody is probably because of Fuji X. A friend of mine sold M9 and his 2 Leica lenses a few months after he got X Pro1 and then he got X100. He said he doesn't love Fuji X as much as his M9, but the image quality is on par or better than M9 with cron. AF is OK, he said.
i doubt it....i briefly used the X-Pro 1 last month and thought it was OK----but nowhere in the realm of a Leica M!

i do think that the arrival of the new M240 is leading to the decline in prices and increased cameras on sale right now----as people prepare to change their current digital leica.
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Old 01-18-2013   #108
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i doubt it....i briefly used the X-Pro 1 last month and thought it was OK----but nowhere in the realm of a Leica M!
Nowhere in the realm? With regard to what? Perhaps ergonomics, but in other categories? ... please explain to me as a user of both.
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Old 01-18-2013   #109
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But then you're stuck DRIVING a Toyota!
Well, the choice I guess is to drive the Toyota with $250,000 in your bank account or drive the Ferarri with $zero in your bank account
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Old 01-18-2013   #110
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Nowhere in the realm? With regard to what? Perhaps ergonomics, but in other categories? ... please explain to me as a user of both.
i mean in terms of build quality, lack of rangefinder, overcomplicated menus on the fuji, and overall a less 'pure' device IMO. It feels like a mass produced camera....it's a nice one in that respect, however i don't think it really stands up to an M.

there are lots of cameras that can produce quality images, however the user experience and the intangibles is often what makes us love using a particular device....
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Old 01-18-2013   #111
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i mean in terms of build quality, lack of rangefinder, overcomplicated menus on the fuji, and overall a less 'pure' device IMO. It feels like a mass produced camera....it's a nice one in that respect, however i don't think it really stands up to an M.

there are lots of cameras that can produce quality images, however the user experience and the intangibles is often what makes us love using a particular device....
I agree... but let's not forget the difference in price though. We cannot expect the X-Pro1 to feel like a M9 for 1/4 of the price (new vs. new at the time of release). That said, the Fuji still feels great, its menus are less convoluted than many of its peers, and it will outperform the M9 in many situations.
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Old 01-18-2013   #112
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I sold an M9 after a very brief spell with it but lately due to a change in circumstances I'm starting to think of trying one again. I didn't like it too much back then but now that prices are starting to get closer to what I think it's actually worth then maybe I should try again with a little more patience.
It would also give me a chance to use my Leica lenses more.
Average M9 prices for a low count one seem to be €3300 ish. When the new one delivers I don't think it will take long for that to dip into under €3000 territory at which point I'm all in again!
I'm amazed at how low an M8 can be had now and given another year or so it will probably be the same for M9's.
Great news for those wanting to get into FF r/f. It's a shame that Leica charge so much in the first place. Depreciation on these things is similar to buying luxury cars new!
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Old 01-18-2013   #113
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Well, the choice I guess is to drive the Toyota with $250,000 in your bank account or drive the Ferarri with $zero in your bank account
No, the people who can afford the Ferrari have multiples of $250,000 in their bank account after buying the Ferrari. No, I'm not one of them, but I don't mind.

However, I am planning to get an M9/9-P/E one of these days, and regardless of the price of the used ones I am actually very tempted by the M-E, both in its design and in the fact of it being new with a warranty. If I spend that much on a camera I prefer not to take chances, and would much prefer brand new. Are there enough people out there with a similar attitude that it will anchor M9 prices at their current level as long as the M-E is on the market?
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