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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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Old 12-10-2012   #26
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And there's the whole different market different price range aspect to this currently very US-centric discussion. My feeling is that $2000 for an M8 is still fairly buyer-friendly around here; many stores are asking for about $2600 for an M8 and even $3900 for M8.2 (used, not new). I don't think (m)any M8.2's move at that price, though.
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Old 12-10-2012   #27
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I paid 1320 for my M8 in mid March.
Very very cheap!
Just an M8 (mint, low actuations), charger, instructions & battery.
No box, passport etc.
Until i dropped it, it was still mint.
When it comes back from Leica, it will be a "new" camera,
Very battered, but with a warranty etc.
What will it be worth tho?
I bought it as a user. And will use it again in preference to the M9 Leica lent me.
Will it be worth more or less than a "mint" low actuations M8?
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Old 12-10-2012   #28
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Prices are falling, inevitably I'd argue, with the new digital M around the corner. As models get older they will get even cheaper. Good for anyone who wants such a thing.
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Old 12-10-2012   #29
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M9

How does 2052.00 sound?
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Old 12-10-2012   #30
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I guess the range is more like 1500-2000 rather than the narrow ranges we mentioned. I guess I've just been keeping track of prices in the lower end of the range.
Exactly. However, unless your M8 is in like new condition and has low accuations, I would imagine you are looking at $1700-1800 realistically.
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Old 12-10-2012   #31
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How does 2052.00 sound?
Great, but this sold low because the seller doesn't have a track record on ebay. The only other thing he sold was a coin set.
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Old 12-10-2012   #32
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Prices are falling, inevitably I'd argue, with the new digital M around the corner. As models get older they will get even cheaper. Good for anyone who wants such a thing.
Fully agreed. It's unreasonable to expect prices to remain high forever. As you say, I would expect another big hit on the prices once the M starts shipping.
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Old 12-10-2012   #33
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Great, but this sold low because the seller doesn't have a track record on ebay. The only other thing he sold was a coin set.
You're saying that because I never ever sold anything on ebay I should start selling some very nice toeclippers I have?

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Old 12-10-2012   #34
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You're saying that because I never ever sold anything on ebay I should start selling some very nice toeclippers I have?

Nescio
I'm saying people trust people with a track record more on ebay... like items in the past with positive feedback puts the buyer at ease. Do whatever you like with your toeclippers.
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Old 12-10-2012   #35
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I'm saying people trust people with a track record more on ebay... like items in the past with positive feedback puts the buyer at ease. Do whatever you like with your toeclippers.
If ever in need, I'll sell them as is for $1000 with a 28 Elmarit as a free gift .
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Old 12-10-2012   #36
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I bought a used M9 a couple of months ago for $4k US. I've not seen prices fall since then.
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Old 12-10-2012   #37
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I bought a used M9 a couple of months ago for $4k US. I've not seen prices fall since then.
I don't think the price of the M9 will fall to much. The introduction of the M-E, being identical to the M9, will allow the M9/M9-P to remain current.

EDIT: Things might drastically change when the M is released though. If many M9 user sell the camera in favor of the new M, we might se a whole lot of them in the used market. If sellers aren't able to sell an M9 at $4000 because of the large quantities M9s being sold, the price will probably go down. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Old 12-10-2012   #38
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I don't think the price of the M9 will fall to much. The introduction of the M-E, being identical to the M9, will allow the M9/M9-P to remain current.

EDIT: Things might drastically change when the M is released though. If many M9 user sell the camera in favor of the new M, we might se a whole lot of them in the used market. If sellers aren't able to sell an M9 at $4000 because of the large quantities M9s being sold, the price will probably go down. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
When i bought my M8 in August....prices of the M8 were almost the same as now. M9s were selling for $5500-$6000. Now the M9 is easily attainable for $4k. They are falling fast! I still don't know why they are falling so fast...perhaps because a lot of M9 owners are planning to upgrade to the M.
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Old 12-10-2012   #39
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When i bought my M8 in August....prices of the M8 were almost the same as now. M9s were selling for $5500-$6000. Now the M9 is easily attainable for $4k. They are falling fast! I still don't know why they are falling so fast...perhaps because a lot of M9 owners are planning to upgrade to the M.
Because the M-E is $5500. Used always sells for 70-80% of new unless it is in demand and unavailable. Since the M9 is effectively the same as a M-E (don't nitpick), it is going to sell for about 75% of new. It was selling for $5000-5500 when the new price was $7000.
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Old 12-10-2012   #40
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Because the M-E is $5500. Used always sells for 70-80% of new unless it is in demand and unavailable. Since the M9 is effectively the same as a M-E (don't nitpick), it is going to sell for about 75% of new. It was selling for $5000-5500 when the new price was $7000.
true. the M-E is essentially an M9P for a big discount. The 2nd hand market has adjusted accordingly.

I would love to get a 2nd hand M-E...but after it goes down a bit. It's funny as brand new/demo M-Es are already selling for $500 off sticker price! The M-E is not too popular...good news for the 2nd hand market for M-Es i suppose.
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Old 12-10-2012   #41
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true. the M-E is essentially an M9P for a big discount. The 2nd hand market has adjusted accordingly.

I would love to get a 2nd hand M-E...but after it goes down a bit. It's funny as brand new/demo M-Es are already selling for $500 off sticker price! The M-E is not too popular...good news for the 2nd hand market for M-Es i suppose.
Yeah, I'm not sure if the M-E will do too well. It just didn't make too much sense to me. I'm sure a huge part of it was to be able to use what would have been M9-P parts on a camera that Leica could advertise as being "new".
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Old 12-10-2012   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
When i bought my M8 in August....prices of the M8 were almost the same as now. M9s were selling for $5500-$6000. Now the M9 is easily attainable for $4k. They are falling fast! I still don't know why they are falling so fast...perhaps because a lot of M9 owners are planning to upgrade to the M.
That was all before the M and ME announcement. But even before that, I think used M9s were already bellow $5000. When the M9-P was announced, the price of the M9 dropped by $1000. At that point, new M9s were around $6000 and used M9s went bellow $5000. It's really scary how these prices drop so much.
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Old 12-10-2012   #43
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Yeah, I'm not sure if the M-E will do too well. It just didn't make too much sense to me.
It needed to be priced lower apparently.
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Old 12-10-2012   #44
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Yeah, the M-E is an interesting wrinkle in the whole thing. I think it will hold used M9 prices to around $4000-$4500 for a while, especially once more used M-Es start coming to market. I know that I'd rather have a used M9 than a used M-E, assuming they're in similar condition, simply because of the frame lever and availability in black (don't really care about the USB port, either way,) so I'd probably pay a little more for a used M9.
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Old 12-10-2012   #45
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MOST M8s on the forums and ebay are selling for over $1800 to $2000. By you saying they should be $1500 doesn't make them sell for that much....i know YOU want it to be $1500 so you can buy one....but that attempt to lower prices won't work, mate....but nice try

I paid around $2k for my fully updated (M8.1/M8U) back in August. Since that time in August.....prices have fallen very little. The M8 is retaining very good values overall, considering all the hooplah and all the talk about it being 'old'....it is still a fantastic camera and can still outshoot a lot of digital cameras out there....especially in B&W where it is enjoying a resurgence of new buyers for.
Don't get so worked up, Buddy. I'm not attempting to manipulate the M8 market; I have had and sold an M8 and an M9, it's not as big a deal to own one as you imagine - I just think I could use a cheap M-Mount IR camera. I. am just stating my opinion on what price it makes sense to pay for an M8 ( that's why I had the "IMO" in my post!) And, I have rationale for my opinion.

When the market on a product drops, as with these cameras, a rational buyer will try to get as close as possible to the lowest price observed. It is always possible that a one or two low priced transactions are an anomaly that can't be matched - the same can be said for high priced transactions. But when, as we have here, multiple examples of M8s selling around $1500-1600 at auction and on forums (as stated by another poster) and multiple examples of them not selling at around $1800, one is wise to take notice if they are in the market to buy.

That should be the target price for a buyer, but you may need patience; the impatient will pay more. Same with sellers, if you are patient you may be able to get $2200, $2900, or $One Million for your M8; the less patient will sell for $1500.

But don't worry, unless you sell your M8, you will not have realized a loss- go enjoy it and don't worry so much!
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Old 12-10-2012   #46
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That was all before the M and ME announcement. But even before that, I think used M9s were already bellow $5000. When the M9-P was announced, the price of the M9 dropped by $1000. At that point, new M9s were around $6000 and used M9s went bellow $5000. It's really scary how these prices drop so much.

Exactly, the new models always have an effect on the used market and it is exacerbated in the current situation. The M8 is dropping, not only because the new new ME and M were announced, but also because the M9 is taking a beating from them.

Nothing unusual about it, but it is a roller coaster. But still I think Leicas hold their value better than most digitals. The M8 retained value is amazing right now considering the lack of availability of the parts fix LCD failures or coffee staining. This is a credit to Leica's generous trade up policy, of course.
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Old 12-11-2012   #47
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I have been perfectly fine with paying 2500 EUR (USD 3500 at the time) for an MP or an M7, however, I am not at all fine with an idea of paying more for a new digital camera, than a couple of years (warranty period) of film, plus, let's say 1000 EUR on top (this is max of what I would be willing to pay for any kind of second hand digital contraption without warranty). .
I have the opposite opinion, the cost of film and scanning is prohibitive and makes an M9 less (possibly much) then the cost of film over 3 years, if we say its 3000 GBP (which most are still over in the UK, despite the postings here). I prefer the flexibility of digital and the general quality, albeit I dip into film occasionally to remind me of all this.

I notice that the average ebay value for a good M9 is 3500 GBP, ones below that seem to sell quite fast

So I think, in contrary to the views expressed here, the M9 price is holding up quite well. And why not, its a FF camera which is as much as most people will need. The M240 is more of a subtle improvement for non-gear heads.
The M9 and M9-P seem to be following the M8.2 depreciation curve quite closely, albeit at an elevated level as the M9's introduction price was 1000 more and the premium ascribed to FF by most shooters.

There can be some dips as some M9 users panic sell in lieu of an M240. Always suspicious of this as how can a real photographer be without a camera for 6 months or more ??

A new M240 at 5100 and a good second hand M9 at 3000 sounds like a difference that will remain for some time
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Old 12-11-2012   #48
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multiple examples of M8s selling around $1500-1600 at auction and on forums (as stated by another poster) and multiple examples of them not selling at around $1800, one is wise to take notice if they are in the market to buy.

But don't worry, unless you sell your M8, you will not have realized a loss- go enjoy it and don't worry so much!
i'm not worried...at all. but you are exaggerating the prices. there are FAR MORE selling for higher than that than whatever amounts you are stating....i haven't found what you're saying to be true anywhere online.
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Old 12-11-2012   #49
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i'm not worried...at all. but you are exaggerating the prices. there are FAR MORE selling for higher than that than whatever amounts you are stating....i haven't found what you're saying to be true anywhere online.
Look at ebay closed auctions... there is a $1500 and $1625 right there. Sure, they don't routinely sell for this, but YES, they do at times.
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Old 12-11-2012   #50
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Look at ebay closed auctions... there is a $1500 and $1625 right there. Sure, they don't routinely sell for this, but YES, they do at times.
But anything does
I have seen a Leica lenses go for scarily low prices as the owner obviously needs the money, or perhaps doesn't care

However I have been observing ebay very closely for over a year. There was a step drop when the 240 was announced but no significant changes since then. I expect M9 prices to be fairly stable for some time now.
There are people waiting for bargains but this will mostly be in vain.
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