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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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M9 Going Cheap
Old 12-09-2012   #1
Clark.EE
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M9 Going Cheap

M9 just sold on Ebay UK for 2350.00.
Nice M8 went for 1500.00.
Another 2 months & i will get an M9 & 50 quid cash back in exchange for my M8!
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Old 12-09-2012   #2
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Of course that's ignoring all the M8s going for 975 - 1075, and even the recent one that went for 748!
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Old 12-09-2012   #3
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Of course that's ignoring all the M8s going for 975 - 1075, and even the recent one that went for 748!
Are you serious?
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Old 12-09-2012   #4
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The prices are going down pretty quick! I might be able to afford an M9 soon!
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Old 12-09-2012   #5
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It's funny how my own feelings towards the M9 seem to echo the feelings of the market. Half a year ago I would have loved to pay the price that a used M9 is going for right now.
But right now, with prices falling and the new M around the corner I won't. It's like however much the price is going down, a used M9 is always 500 too expensive.
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Old 12-09-2012   #6
Pickett Wilson
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So what is it that is so lacking with the M9 that will cause so many to upgrade?
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Old 12-09-2012   #7
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Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson View Post
So what is it that is so lacking with the M9 that will cause so many to upgrade?
I personally like the increased ISO range and, hopefully, better high ISO performance from the new Leica M. That's a huge selling point as the M9's ISO 2500 is arguably unusable. Video, Leica R compatibility and the large number of accessories that can be had are also huge selling points. If I was an M9 user, I might sell it in favor of the new M because of those added features. Beyond that, I don't think I'd feel the need to upgrade. I wish the ISO range would go a bit further though, seeing as the Monochrom can get up to 10,000.

There are also the people that just want the latest and greatest. This isn't just a Leica thing, it's seen across all brands, and goes way beyond photography. It benefits us that shop in the used market (y)
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Old 12-09-2012   #8
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Even if the new M does great high ISO, stupefying HD video, 7-8 fps, has geotagging, LV and even gives me a happy ending, I don't see a reason why I'd sell my M9

Best/worst case scenario, I'll buy the new one but the m9 classic goes to the grave with me
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Old 12-09-2012   #9
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Are you serious?
Yes - these are approximations of recent eBay sales - mostly in the US, but quoted in pounds for consistency with the OP. You can see many M8s priced at $1700-1800US that languish in the private sale forums. I think it takes a price around $1500 to sell pretty quickly. As the M9 prices drop, the M8 will be dropping as well.
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Old 12-10-2012   #10
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Of course that's ignoring all the M8s going for 975 - 1075, and even the recent one that went for 748!
on US eBay....the M8s are mostly still selling between $1700 and $2000. it's been like this since August. M9s for between 3800 and $4500. Prices have fallen....but not that much.
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Old 12-10-2012   #11
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there is one on keh.com for $4236.05. i'm hoping the $4000 barrier is passed soon )
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Old 12-10-2012   #12
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So what is it that is so lacking with the M9 that will cause so many to upgrade?
oh, that lcd screen...
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Old 12-10-2012   #13
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So what is it that is so lacking with the M9 that will cause so many to upgrade?
It's not new enough. How many of us are changing cameras for genuine improvements rather than lust? Some people genuinely need high ISO performance (but want a sexy range finder more than a boring Canon), but I think most of us hobbyists are just buying for lust. I don't think I've ever bought a camera for a feature I genuinely needed.
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Old 12-10-2012   #14
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these digital M price threads are always mix of wishful thinking of potential buyers and bitterness of current owners.
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Old 12-10-2012   #15
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Paid 1125 for my M8, 35k shutter, about 2 months ago. Think it was a fair purchase. At 700 I may be looking for a backup body soon.

I think either the M8s are too cheap, or 20 year old M6's with potentially flaky meters are too expensive. Market's a bit odd.

All in all though, the devaluation is in line with most digital pro equipment. Look at how much you can buy a Nikon D2x nowadays....
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Old 12-10-2012   #16
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Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
on US eBay....the M8s are mostly still selling between $1700 and $2000. it's been like this since August. M9s for between 3800 and $4500. Prices have fallen....but not that much.
Of course you'll always find people overpaying on eBay - that is why you can find an M9 that sold for $4999 recently. That was my point to the OP - you generally can't look at a single low (or high) price on eBay and claim that is the market. And you surely can't expect M9 prices to drop below that of an M8!

IMO, anyone paying $2000 for an M8, unless it is brand new with warranty, is over paying by at least $300-350. I arrive at this by looking at eBay to see what the lower ones are going for and then comparing to other forums where there is a larger trust factor in making a deal (like RFF). If M8s are posted on forums by established members for $1700-1800 and they don't move quickly, then they are priced too high, in general.

The M8 is getting very old in digital terms, but it has held its value very well. But right now, IMO (and I am considering getting back into an M8, due to the price drops), those in the market for an M8 should be looking to pick one up at a target price of about $1500. If you are impatient, then plan for $1700 or so. $2000-2100 would be my target for an M8.2 (not upgrade!), but I probably do not see enough advantages to pay the extra $500.

If you're selling an M8, and want the hassle of trying to wring out every last dime, then go to eBay and put a 30day auction out there for $2000 or Best Offer, you may get it. But if you want to sell it quickly and much more safely, then post it here for $1500-1700.
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Old 12-10-2012   #17
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I have been perfectly fine with paying 2500 EUR (USD 3500 at the time) for an MP or an M7, however, I am not at all fine with an idea of paying more for a new digital camera, than a couple of years (warranty period) of film, plus, let's say 1000 EUR on top (this is max of what I would be willing to pay for any kind of second hand digital contraption without warranty). As I average about 200 rolls of film a year, for an estimated expense of 1000 EUR including the chemistry cost. It means, that my expense limit would be EUR 3000. I think that the next Leica will be about 7000 EUR new - at least - so I do not have any interest in it.
Moreover, I am still waiting for a full frame ( or even better 645 or 6x7) camera, that would be mirrorless, and would have an EVF decent enough to skip rangefinder or optical DSLR style VF. Finally, there's the eternal problem with B&W tonality - I think it will probably take chips with a computing capacity which does not yet exist, to replicate the typical highlight response curve of silver film.
If anything, I expect that something feasible at an acceptable price, will be made first in Japan or Korea, rather than in Germany.
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Old 12-10-2012   #18
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Of course you'll always find people overpaying on eBay - that is why you can find an M9 that sold for $4999 recently. That was my point to the OP - you generally can't look at a single low (or high) price on eBay and claim that is the market. And you surely can't expect M9 prices to drop below that of an M8!

IMO, anyone paying $2000 for an M8, unless it is brand new with warranty, is over paying by at least $300-350. I arrive at this by looking at eBay to see what the lower ones are going for and then comparing to other forums where there is a larger trust factor in making a deal (like RFF). If M8s are posted on forums by established members for $1700-1800 and they don't move quickly, then they are priced too high, in general.

The M8 is getting very old in digital terms, but it has held its value very well. But right now, IMO (and I am considering getting back into an M8, due to the price drops), those in the market for an M8 should be looking to pick one up at a target price of about $1500. If you are impatient, then plan for $1700 or so. $2000-2100 would be my target for an M8.2 (not upgrade!), but I probably do not see enough advantages to pay the extra $500.

If you're selling an M8, and want the hassle of trying to wring out every last dime, then go to eBay and put a 30day auction out there for $2000 or Best Offer, you may get it. But if you want to sell it quickly and much more safely, then post it here for $1500-1700.
MOST M8s on the forums and ebay are selling for over $1800 to $2000. By you saying they should be $1500 doesn't make them sell for that much....i know YOU want it to be $1500 so you can buy one....but that attempt to lower prices won't work, mate....but nice try

I paid around $2k for my fully updated (M8.1/M8U) back in August. Since that time in August.....prices have fallen very little. The M8 is retaining very good values overall, considering all the hooplah and all the talk about it being 'old'....it is still a fantastic camera and can still outshoot a lot of digital cameras out there....especially in B&W where it is enjoying a resurgence of new buyers for.
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Old 12-10-2012   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
MOST M8s on the forums and ebay are selling for over $1800 to $2000. By you saying they should be $1500 doesn't make them sell for that much....i know YOU want it to be $1500 so you can buy one....but that attempt to lower prices won't work, mate....but nice try

I paid around $2k for my fully updated (M8.1/M8U) back in August. Since that time in August.....prices have fallen very little. The M8 is retaining very good values overall, considering all the hooplah and all the talk about it being 'old'....it is still a fantastic camera and can still outshoot a lot of digital cameras out there....especially in B&W where it is enjoying a resurgence of new buyers for.
In the past 2 months, I've seen 3-4 M8s for for $1500-1600 on APUG. I believe 2 of them were from RFF forum members as well. Yours was an updated M8, so I guess what you paid was about the average price.
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Old 12-10-2012   #20
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In the past 2 months, I've seen 3-4 M8s for for $1500-1600 on APUG. I believe 2 of them were from RFF forum members as well. Yours was an updated M8, so I guess what you paid was about the average price.
$1500 is abnormally low for any M8....a hell of a bargain for that much. if you look through many different sites the average is around $1800 to $2000....my M8.1 was VERY low for August. M8.1s were selling for $2300-2400 then....i got mine for a helluva discount.

If you look on RFF...M8s are selling for the range i'm telling you as well. A friend of mine is still looking for an M8, so i know the prices quite well from helping him....
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Old 12-10-2012   #21
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Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
$1500 is abnormally low for any M8....a hell of a bargain for that much. if you look through many different sites the average is around $1800 to $2000....my M8.1 was VERY low for August. M8.1s were selling for $2300-2400 then....i got mine for a helluva discount.

If you look on RFF...M8s are selling for the range i'm telling you as well. A friend of mine is still looking for an M8, so i know the prices quite well from helping him....
I was talking about all the ones that sold, not the average price of those that were listed. Maybe they are being listed for $1800-2000, but few have been selling. If you look at the ones on RRF, none are getting sold and the prices are being lowered.

From what I can tell, eBay and other auction sites are not a very good indication for average price. Even film M cameras are being listed for much higher than what they usually sell for. Forums, from my experience, always have the best prices (unless you find one of those once in a blue moon ebay deals)
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Old 12-10-2012   #22
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I was talking about all the ones that sold, not the average price of those that were listed. Maybe they are being listed for $1800-2000, but few have been selling. If you look at the ones on RRF, none are getting sold and the prices are being lowered.

From what I can tell, eBay and other auction sites are not a very good indication for average price. Even film M cameras are being listed for much higher than what they usually sell for. Forums, from my experience, always have the best prices (unless you find one of those once in a blue moon ebay deals)
i've just briefly looked around fred miranda, get dpi, rff, l-forums...have not seen a single one in the range you are mentioning.

ebay is actually a pretty decent indicator----you just have to go into the 'completed auctions' area to see how much they are selling for.
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Old 12-10-2012   #23
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Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
i've just briefly looked around fred miranda, get dpi, rff, l-forums...have not seen a single one in the range you are mentioning.

ebay is actually a pretty decent indicator----you just have to go into the 'completed auctions' area to see how much they are selling for.
I can't remember who sold the other cameras. It was sold on getdpi, not APUG as I previously stated. I also recall one user condition being sold for $1500CAD. Not trying to say you're wrong, I'm just letting you know what I've seen. Maybe I've just more aware when I see low prices.

The reason I feel that eBay is not a good indicator is because the average selling price on forums is a lot less. Compare all M3s M2s M6s, even M8s and M9s. They generally sell for less on forums. Maybe it's because they take into account ebay fees and such, idk.
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Old 12-10-2012   #24
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You're both right. In the completed auctions there are some that sold for $1500-1650, but more recently they are back to $1700-2100... though M8.2 are sometimes at the $2000 level, but mostly higher.
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Old 12-10-2012   #25
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You're both right. In the completed auctions there are some that sold for $1500-1650, but more recently they are back to $1700-2100... though M8.2 are sometimes at the $2000 level, but mostly higher.
I guess the range is more like 1500-2000 rather than the narrow ranges we mentioned. I guess I've just been keeping track of prices in the lower end of the range.
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