Have you bought and sold an MM?

[xdayv]

Vince, I'm optimistic you'll turn to like the MM and it will hopefully exceed your expectations vis-a-vis the M9. Can't wait to see your shots soon.

[Vince Lupo]

I hope so -- for example, this is a shot I did with my M9 a couple of months ago. Granted, I did a bit of PP work to get this final look, but I'll be interested to see if the MM can somehow move me beyond this in a variety of situations.

[xdayv]

Originally Posted by Vince Lupo

I hope so -- for example, this is a shot I did with my M9 a couple of months ago. Granted, I did a bit of PP work to get this final look, but I'll be interested to see if the MM can somehow move me beyond this in a variety of situations.

Vince, first of all that is well done shot to begin with. It's probably gonna take the MM a whole lot of proving to a very able photographer like you using an M9 for years.

What probably I can think where the MM will have an edge: The whole idea of being limited to a camera that can only produce purely B&W images only. I think it might have its way (for the better) on how we perceive things photographically when that limitation is set. When color is an option, it's another whole creative idea that is set on one's mind. With the limitation set, I think more creativity to produce B&W images will emerge. (I hope I make sense.)

[Calzone]

Originally Posted by kokoshawnuff

No one can say they'll "never" sell it. What happens when the MMM/MM.2 comes out? Or when parts can't be sourced in 8 years?

That said I have seen 3 used for sale thus far (not including those wishing to trade a black for a silver or vis versa)

I have a Nikon F3P that I bought used that I have owned for almost 24 years. I tend to buy to keep because through frequent use I tend to bond with a camera in the same manner that a musician bonds with his instrument. Over time I found that some possessions just become an extention of my body like wearing a watch or having a ponytail.

If a new version comes along it would not be an update , but an addition. Also I'm hopeful that the MM will be more durable than you suggest.

Cal

[srtiwari]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Um... Yes. Tell me the difference.

Cheers,

R.

The difference is rather obvious...to me. One can buy something after considerable researching and pondering, and yet find it unsuitable in actual use. Buying "on a whim" suggests responding to GAS.

[Godfrey]

Originally Posted by srtiwari

The difference is rather obvious...to me. One can buy something after considerable researching and pondering, and yet find it unsuitable in actual use. Buying "on a whim" suggests responding to GAS.

I agree. I've bought several cameras after a great deal of study and subsequent anticipation of their merits only to find that, in use, they didn't pan out as I had expected. It's always a big let down.

I've also bought on a whim and found myself so thoroughly delighted with a camera to the point that I sold others that it replaced.

G

[fotomeow]

I have only seen one used MM for sale, which tells me the owners tend to keep 'em, a niche market for sure, but a loyal niche market.

However, this will all change in 1-2 years, as a consequence of continued marketing, more than a consequence of improved tech.

[icebear]

Originally Posted by airfrogusmc

....I get depresses when I can't get out and shoot with it.

+1 , LOL, exact same here !!! .

I think I made a careful decision on this. I went to a Leica Monochrom workshop in NYC and tried it for about two hrs shooting time. Easy decision afterwards, once I saw the shots on my monitor screen at home.

[icebear]

Originally Posted by Vince Lupo

I hope so -- for example, this is a shot I did with my M9 a couple of months ago. Granted, I did a bit of PP work to get this final look, but I'll be interested to see if the MM can somehow move me beyond this in a variety of situations.

Hello Vince,

I yesterday was playing around with a still life as I found some odd shaped peppers shopping for dinner.
Here's a Monochrom shot :



I also took a few shots with the M9, as the peppers where red, calling almost to capture this also in color. After looking at the MM files and the M9 files I deleted all of the M9 shots... it's just no comparison, I can't really explain it other than the stupid argument "trust me" .

If you have a chance to try a MM with your own SD card (format in camera !) do it and see for yourself.
Everything you can see on the web doesn't cut it, really it doesn't.

[algrove]

My situation is different from most since my wife got an MM from her dealer and then soon after Photokina I received my MM. We decided to have 2 in the same house was crazy so I sold one with about 2500 actuations.

The one I currently have is a keeper. The MM has done wonders for my digital skill level.

[peter_n]

Originally Posted by icebear

See my gallery or the "Monochrom best pictures" thread.

Just had a look at the Monochrom pictures thread and those pics are not like B&W film at all. The camera isn't a replacement for a film M as the look is just so different.

[icebear]

Originally Posted by peter_n

Just had a look at the Monochrom pictures thread and those pics are not like B&W film at all. The camera isn't a replacement for a film M as the look is just so different.

Hello Peter,

you are right, the MM files do look different. They are much cleaner and you have the impression you look at the scene itself and not at a picture of it (not on the downsized jpg's of course).

It is so much more realistic - but yes, it is clearly different than film.
If you want what you are used to, there's Nik SFx. I don't have the desire to mimic any film type/style and I was playing around with SFx but for me this is clearly degrading the IQ from the MM. So I don't use it. But that's a personal preference and starting from the MM files you can achieve whatever you want.

Starting from a clean file and add grain effects is easy, trying the other way around, i.e. to remove noise and grain will bring a loss in detail.

[Calzone]

Originally Posted by peter_n

Just had a look at the Monochrom pictures thread and those pics are not like B&W film at all. The camera isn't a replacement for a film M as the look is just so different.

Peter,

To me the higher resolution is a step towards medium format and the look can be like Fuji Arcos which some people say looks too digital. I welcome the look because I like Arcos and also because I shoot a lot of MF.

Sometimes I wonder how many people on this forum would object to large format just because it has a clean look, is highly detailed and because of its lack of grain.

Cal

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by fotomeow

I have only seen one used MM for sale, which tells me the owners tend to keep 'em, a niche market for sure, but a loyal niche market.

There weren't that many of them made, they haven't even shipped them all, and they are shipped all around the world. It would make sense to not see so many for sale, but it's not because their owners tend to keep them. It's way too early to tell.

[Vince Lupo]

Has anyone here ever had any MM files printed using the Leica baryta print service that is offered to MM owners? If so, how do they compare to 'traditional' prints?

[Calzone]

Originally Posted by Vince Lupo

Has anyone here ever had any MM files printed using the Leica baryta print service that is offered to MM owners? If so, how do they compare to 'traditional' prints?

This is an interesting question. Another question is the costs. I believe the lab is in England.

Cal

[peter_n]

Originally Posted by icebear

you are right, the MM files do look different.

Yes and I only made the comment that they don't look like film because someone in the thread made the point that they were persuasive enough to go to digital and leave film behind. I assumed that he/she saw some kind of connection but now I see that it's the difference that's persuasive, not any perceived similarity.

The pictures are extremely vivid and I'm not sure that I see with such clarity, and I have 20/20 vision. To my rather untutored eye they are too vivid as if sharpness has been over-emphasized without the artifacts. It reminds me a bit of the over-saturation you see in color everywhere. I can imagine though that these shots printed big from a RAW processed file would be very interesting to look at on a wall.

[malland]

The M-Monocjrom is a great camera. Better than the M9 for B&W? Yes! Better than film? It depends. One could say it's better than film in the sense that most people on Leica forums say the Summilux-50 ASPH is better than the Summilux-50 pre ASPH, but I much prefer the properties — shall we say "character"? — of the latter. In the same way, many people will prefer film. However, the M-Monochrom files are so robust, and have so much dynamic range from the what can be recovered from the shadows, that you can process them for a wide variety of look. And processing is very easy in LR4, particularly the way the Black and White sliders work.

My own interest in the M-Monochrom right now is to be able to produce the type of high-contrast prints that I like while maintaining midtone gradation as in the following pictures — I often shoot in the harsh ("mad dogs and Englishmen") light of noon in Thailand:


Chiang Mai [Summicron-28]

Chiang Mai by Mitch Alland, on Flickr




Chiang Mai by Mitch Alland, on Flickr


—Mitch/Chiang Mai
Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project)

[icebear]

Originally Posted by peter_n

...

The pictures are extremely vivid and I'm not sure that I see with such clarity, and I have 20/20 vision. To my rather untutored eye they are too vivid as if sharpness has been over-emphasized without the artifacts. ...

Peter,
the files from the MM do provide just a starting point. What people do with contrast or clarity slider in LR4 to achieve what they like, is very much a personal preference. The downsizing to jpg for posting will increase certain aspects of the process.

If you prefer a more subtle approach to contrast, no big deal. The information is all there.

Here is an example straight from the camera, no corrections what so ever, just down sized for posting:


To evaluate the capacity of the MM you will need to shoot the MM yourself and load the orginal files on your own desktop and use a calibrated monitor. Everything you see on the web is nothing more than a nice teaser. Even the Leica examples on their website or what has been shown at the Monochrom workshop in NYC (Macbook via projector to screen) was not really convincing. I did not really understand their argument the MM is "100% better than the M9" until I saw the files on my monitor at home.

[Satijntje]

On the German Ebay, there is currently a 5 days old MM "for sale" for 1000 Euro above the official price here in Germany.
It seems that somebody intends to make money out of it

John

[Vince Lupo]

Just got an email today from my Leica 'source' -- I should have a Monochrom this week!

Now I just have to justify its ownership by making good photos......

[Vince Lupo]

Oh yeah!

[Calzone]

Originally Posted by Vince Lupo

Oh yeah!

Congrats.

It seems Leica closes down for a Christmas to New Years break. I'm number 4 on a list, and it seems more and more likely my MM will come in January.

Cal

[NicoM]

Originally Posted by Vince Lupo

Oh yeah!

I'm a little jealous. Just kidding, I'm very jelous! Enjoy your now camera

[Vince Lupo]

The challenge now is to justify its ownership and make some worthy photos.