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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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Old 12-06-2012   #26
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Vince, I'm optimistic you'll turn to like the MM and it will hopefully exceed your expectations vis-a-vis the M9. Can't wait to see your shots soon.
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Old 12-06-2012   #27
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I hope so -- for example, this is a shot I did with my M9 a couple of months ago. Granted, I did a bit of PP work to get this final look, but I'll be interested to see if the MM can somehow move me beyond this in a variety of situations.

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Old 12-06-2012   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
I hope so -- for example, this is a shot I did with my M9 a couple of months ago. Granted, I did a bit of PP work to get this final look, but I'll be interested to see if the MM can somehow move me beyond this in a variety of situations.

Vince, first of all that is well done shot to begin with. It's probably gonna take the MM a whole lot of proving to a very able photographer like you using an M9 for years.

What probably I can think where the MM will have an edge: The whole idea of being limited to a camera that can only produce purely B&W images only. I think it might have its way (for the better) on how we perceive things photographically when that limitation is set. When color is an option, it's another whole creative idea that is set on one's mind. With the limitation set, I think more creativity to produce B&W images will emerge. (I hope I make sense.)
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Old 12-06-2012   #29
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Originally Posted by kokoshawnuff View Post
No one can say they'll "never" sell it. What happens when the MMM/MM.2 comes out? Or when parts can't be sourced in 8 years?

That said I have seen 3 used for sale thus far (not including those wishing to trade a black for a silver or vis versa)
I have a Nikon F3P that I bought used that I have owned for almost 24 years. I tend to buy to keep because through frequent use I tend to bond with a camera in the same manner that a musician bonds with his instrument. Over time I found that some possessions just become an extention of my body like wearing a watch or having a ponytail.

If a new version comes along it would not be an update , but an addition. Also I'm hopeful that the MM will be more durable than you suggest.

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Old 12-06-2012   #30
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Um... Yes. Tell me the difference.

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The difference is rather obvious...to me. One can buy something after considerable researching and pondering, and yet find it unsuitable in actual use. Buying "on a whim" suggests responding to GAS.
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Old 12-06-2012   #31
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Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
The difference is rather obvious...to me. One can buy something after considerable researching and pondering, and yet find it unsuitable in actual use. Buying "on a whim" suggests responding to GAS.
I agree. I've bought several cameras after a great deal of study and subsequent anticipation of their merits only to find that, in use, they didn't pan out as I had expected. It's always a big let down.

I've also bought on a whim and found myself so thoroughly delighted with a camera to the point that I sold others that it replaced.

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Old 12-06-2012   #32
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I have only seen one used MM for sale, which tells me the owners tend to keep 'em, a niche market for sure, but a loyal niche market.

However, this will all change in 1-2 years, as a consequence of continued marketing, more than a consequence of improved tech.
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Old 12-06-2012   #33
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....I get depresses when I can't get out and shoot with it.
+1 , LOL, exact same here !!! .

I think I made a careful decision on this. I went to a Leica Monochrom workshop in NYC and tried it for about two hrs shooting time. Easy decision afterwards, once I saw the shots on my monitor screen at home.
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Old 12-06-2012   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
I hope so -- for example, this is a shot I did with my M9 a couple of months ago. Granted, I did a bit of PP work to get this final look, but I'll be interested to see if the MM can somehow move me beyond this in a variety of situations.
Hello Vince,

I yesterday was playing around with a still life as I found some odd shaped peppers shopping for dinner.
Here's a Monochrom shot :



I also took a few shots with the M9, as the peppers where red, calling almost to capture this also in color. After looking at the MM files and the M9 files I deleted all of the M9 shots... it's just no comparison, I can't really explain it other than the stupid argument "trust me" .

If you have a chance to try a MM with your own SD card (format in camera !) do it and see for yourself.
Everything you can see on the web doesn't cut it, really it doesn't.
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Old 12-06-2012   #35
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My situation is different from most since my wife got an MM from her dealer and then soon after Photokina I received my MM. We decided to have 2 in the same house was crazy so I sold one with about 2500 actuations.

The one I currently have is a keeper. The MM has done wonders for my digital skill level.
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Old 12-07-2012   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post
See my gallery or the "Monochrom best pictures" thread.
Just had a look at the Monochrom pictures thread and those pics are not like B&W film at all. The camera isn't a replacement for a film M as the look is just so different.


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Old 12-07-2012   #37
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Originally Posted by peter_n View Post
Just had a look at the Monochrom pictures thread and those pics are not like B&W film at all. The camera isn't a replacement for a film M as the look is just so different.
Hello Peter,

you are right, the MM files do look different. They are much cleaner and you have the impression you look at the scene itself and not at a picture of it (not on the downsized jpg's of course).

It is so much more realistic - but yes, it is clearly different than film.
If you want what you are used to, there's Nik SFx. I don't have the desire to mimic any film type/style and I was playing around with SFx but for me this is clearly degrading the IQ from the MM. So I don't use it. But that's a personal preference and starting from the MM files you can achieve whatever you want.

Starting from a clean file and add grain effects is easy, trying the other way around, i.e. to remove noise and grain will bring a loss in detail.
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Old 12-07-2012   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_n View Post
Just had a look at the Monochrom pictures thread and those pics are not like B&W film at all. The camera isn't a replacement for a film M as the look is just so different.
Peter,

To me the higher resolution is a step towards medium format and the look can be like Fuji Arcos which some people say looks too digital. I welcome the look because I like Arcos and also because I shoot a lot of MF.

Sometimes I wonder how many people on this forum would object to large format just because it has a clean look, is highly detailed and because of its lack of grain.

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Old 12-07-2012   #39
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I have only seen one used MM for sale, which tells me the owners tend to keep 'em, a niche market for sure, but a loyal niche market.
There weren't that many of them made, they haven't even shipped them all, and they are shipped all around the world. It would make sense to not see so many for sale, but it's not because their owners tend to keep them. It's way too early to tell.
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Old 12-07-2012   #40
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Has anyone here ever had any MM files printed using the Leica baryta print service that is offered to MM owners? If so, how do they compare to 'traditional' prints?
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Old 12-07-2012   #41
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Has anyone here ever had any MM files printed using the Leica baryta print service that is offered to MM owners? If so, how do they compare to 'traditional' prints?
This is an interesting question. Another question is the costs. I believe the lab is in England.

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Old 12-07-2012   #42
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you are right, the MM files do look different.
Yes and I only made the comment that they don't look like film because someone in the thread made the point that they were persuasive enough to go to digital and leave film behind. I assumed that he/she saw some kind of connection but now I see that it's the difference that's persuasive, not any perceived similarity.

The pictures are extremely vivid and I'm not sure that I see with such clarity, and I have 20/20 vision. To my rather untutored eye they are too vivid as if sharpness has been over-emphasized without the artifacts. It reminds me a bit of the over-saturation you see in color everywhere. I can imagine though that these shots printed big from a RAW processed file would be very interesting to look at on a wall.

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Old 12-07-2012   #43
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...

The pictures are extremely vivid and I'm not sure that I see with such clarity, and I have 20/20 vision. To my rather untutored eye they are too vivid as if sharpness has been over-emphasized without the artifacts. ...
Peter,
the files from the MM do provide just a starting point. What people do with contrast or clarity slider in LR4 to achieve what they like, is very much a personal preference. The downsizing to jpg for posting will increase certain aspects of the process.

If you prefer a more subtle approach to contrast, no big deal. The information is all there.

Here is an example straight from the camera, no corrections what so ever, just down sized for posting:


To evaluate the capacity of the MM you will need to shoot the MM yourself and load the orginal files on your own desktop and use a calibrated monitor. Everything you see on the web is nothing more than a nice teaser. Even the Leica examples on their website or what has been shown at the Monochrom workshop in NYC (Macbook via projector to screen) was not really convincing. I did not really understand their argument the MM is "100% better than the M9" until I saw the files on my monitor at home.
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Bought and sold MM
Old 12-09-2012   #44
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Bought and sold MM

On the German Ebay, there is currently a 5 days old MM "for sale" for 1000 Euro above the official price here in Germany.
It seems that somebody intends to make money out of it

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Old 12-10-2012   #45
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Just got an email today from my Leica 'source' -- I should have a Monochrom this week!

Now I just have to justify its ownership by making good photos......
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Old 12-12-2012   #46
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Oh yeah!

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Old 12-12-2012   #47
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Oh yeah!

Congrats.

It seems Leica closes down for a Christmas to New Years break. I'm number 4 on a list, and it seems more and more likely my MM will come in January.

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Old 12-12-2012   #48
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Oh yeah!

I'm a little jealous. Just kidding, I'm very jelous! Enjoy your now camera
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Old 12-12-2012   #49
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The challenge now is to justify its ownership and make some worthy photos.
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Old 12-12-2012   #50
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The challenge now is to justify its ownership and make some worthy photos.
No doubt. Check out the MM landscape thread for inspiration.

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