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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Puzzled over options
Old 11-25-2012   #1
Santtu Määttänen
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Puzzled over options

Currently I'm pondering on my options on mirrorless cameras, which one to purchase. I've been rather happy about my E-P2 since it was launched, now it's lifecycle seems to be at it's end (due to heavy usage and not too kind treatment). Due to the fact that I've mostly used vintage optics on it and I really want to turn to the evil side of things (AF) I need to purchase glass as well as camera. So I'm wondering which one to get. At the moment I've been tempted by all of the below

Olympus OM-D, weather sealing, seems like solidly build (if it's anything like their E-5 then it would be perfect). Quality of images seems good. Problem is the same which I've had with E-P2, small sensor means that DOF management needs longer lenses then I would otherwise use and it does change the feel of things quit a bit (like taking portraits with 50mm at F1.2 or F1.4, which means 100mm in FF land, instead of 25mm lens or 17mm lens, both of which would be much preferred).

Fujifilm XPro-1, nice formfactor and it has killer looks Also high quality lenses and nice colors. DOF management better then in m4/3 land but still not FF, close. This is about as large as I want to go with camera (I'm used to heavy dSLR:s and I'm not going back unless paid to do so, meaning I most likely continue to rent dSLR gear for jobs which need really fast focusing). Cons are that I would need to change my workflow due to RAW support issues with Lightroom + Photoshop, also there's no 35mm (FF) lens equivalent at the moment.

Then there would be the ODD factor, using the same money that would go into above systems into Sony RX1 but that would have to wait until real reviews start to come up so that all the quirks could be taking into account before purchase. If this would be the way to go, since I would most likely be happy with only one lens, if it is in FF body (meaning DOF management at relatively wide lens at portrait shooting distances) and if the lens is about 35-42mm wide. I was happy for years with only Olympus 35RC with 42mm true normal lens, if Sony could do the same with it's 35mm lens (which is my preferred focal length) then I could be happy with it for years to come, if all other things would be equal or better then on Olympus 35RC (of course in digital world instead of analog film world).

All the above with high end lenses to satisfy me would be in 3K ballpark (with wide lens, normal lens and accessories). With that money Fuji and Olympus would be more versatile due to wider lens selection, Sony would be more turning back to my roots kind of thing. Fuji looks amazing and it does have OVF. Then again I haven't been dissatisfied with my EVF on E-P2 so I would most likely also enjoy either Sony or OM-D.

Any ideas? Of course this is very personal matter of preferences, but if someone could have any thoughts with these things considered, I would appreciate them very much. Also if there's other cameras worth looking into, with similar prices and similar output quality in mind. All of the above cameras deliver wonderful pictures, just tad bit different from one an other

I did ponder a bit about DP2M which would be relatively cheap compared, but due to it being bad in lowlight situations and in high-iso, it's out. Even if I do LOVE the color output and IQ it has.
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Xp1 or xe1 w/ 27 f2.8 pancake
Old 11-25-2012   #2
GaryLH
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Xp1 or xe1 w/ 27 f2.8 pancake

The upcoming 23f1.4 or 27 f2.8 pancake is going to be as close as u get your Olympus rc w/ it's 42mm lens..... In m4/3 the Panasonic 20f1.7 on the omd.

Omd is an dslr look and feel.. The Fuji is not a true drf experience but w/ the ovf of the xp1 it does have some of same aspects. The Sony rx1 is a point and shoot feel unless u add the evf.. And would be closer to a dslr feel since u cannot see things outside the frame that the xp1 would give u. So some very different cameras, not quite an apples to apples comparison, especially when u are talking about three different sensor sizes as well.

All three have good LCDs.. Sony's is the best in bright sunlight.

For the price of rx1 u can buy both omd and Fuji xe1... Or xp1 and the dp2m.

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Old 11-25-2012   #3
Adanac
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I can't help much but will throw a few things at the wall to see if any stick:

If you already find working with an EVF works for you then your options remain quite wide.

The X-E1 uses the same EVF as the RX1 (and the NEX-6); comments from most reviewers suggest the EVF experience is yet another step up from the NEX-7/A77, which was itself a step up from the experience on the NEX-5N.

Is the experience with the EVF the same on Fujifilm cameras? They may not behave the same on the X-E1 and RX1 | NEX-6. There have been some usability issues reported on the X-E1; I'd check into that before making decisions.

When I owned the X100 I found myself using the EVF more often than not as I do tend to prefer precise framing if I can get it; for that reason if I were to consider Fujifilm again, I'd probably purchase the model with the best EVF, all other things equal.

Another to consider for the sensor alone would be the NEX-7, if you prefer more pixels to less.

I'm finding myself wanting more pixels so I can crop in post when moving my feet isn't possible or another composition jumps out of the frame at me only after review. But I'm also finding that I want better performance at higher sensitivity levels than I possibly could have imagined I'd want to use, having only made the switch fully from film last year. The NEX-7 does well, but isn't state of the art, in terms of noise and detail at higher sensitivity levels. The Fujis do quite well but the sensor isn't much bigger than what I shoot now. The RX1 looks fabulous in terms of performance at higher sensitivity levels, and also sports the bigger sensor and more pixels.

Personally I don't like the look of the NEX as much, but I have owned a NEX-5N and looks aside, the shape is actually quite comfortable to carry for long periods of time in-hand. So... I think (I'm still debating this myself) the NEX-7 with its 24MP sensor is probably my current fall-back choice. The RX1 is what I'm moving to for the next year at least. Maybe if I do ever tire of 35mm only on my go-everywhere camera, by that time there'll be something akin to the RX1 (full frame, solid build, Sony not Leica priced) with an interchangeable lens mount and some tasty primes to go with it. Maybe... my current guess is that moment is 2+ years away or longer.

That's my thought process. I"m trimming my M lens collection way back; shooting the RX1 won't be a hardship as I do prefer that field of view and can go months at a time shooting nothing but. Cropping in camera or in post will come to the occasional rescue.

And if I'm feeling limited by the end of 2013, probably I can get a large chunk of my cash back for the RX1 on the used market and do something else.
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Old 11-26-2012   #4
Santtu Määttänen
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I'm looking at all the options around and I'm even more puzzled

XPro lens options mean that I need two to start with (one wide, one normal), with extra battery the total price is well over 2K (in euros). OMD with 20mm would be cheaper, then again if going with OMD I would most likely pick two lenses, one standard (new 17,5mm or 20mm) and one zoom (most likely 12-35mm which would give both standard, bit longer and wide end as well, still would need prime though, due to me not being that much in-love with zooms). So the combined price would be again in well over 2K mark.

So in that comparison the RX1 ain't that much more.. still it sounds more limited in use, but considering my background with mostly fixed lens cameras and mostly primes on all SLR:s (pretty much only one along me at any given time) I don't think it would brake me.

Sigma is an interesting thought, DP2M has good focal length and amazing quality, but is worth the extra trouble in post process?

Of course there would be Leica X2, and I would already own EVF for it (Olympus).. but then again the price would be in the same ballpark, it would be more limited in DOF management then upcoming RX1 and with that price I can get XPro1 body... but funnily enough, Leica would be the cheapest of the bunch in total cost (not taking in account Sigma which I fear is too limiting in ISO and too much work in post to be serious contender) How many times can you say that? Leica was the cheapest option?

I think I put my thinking cap on this for a while... If there's nice lenses for XPro1 coming with in a month or so, then I think it will be the winner. If not, then I'm considering fixed lens camera options against OM-D. XPro1 is a nice looking thing, and the image quality and colors seem amazing, if Adobe starts to support it, and lenses would be available, it would be an easy choice.

It ain't easy to purchase anything in this day and age
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Old 11-26-2012   #5
Santtu Määttänen
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OH and I haven't even thought about Sony NEX cameras, something about them never ticked the right boxes in me. But now I have to dig my self into them too

However I have much higher trust towards Olympus and Fuji in making lenses then I have towards Sony, unless there's Zeiss line of lenses available..
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Old 11-26-2012   #6
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Voigtlander does a f/0.95 25mm lens for Micro Four Thirds, pricey, but worth a look if you're after very shallow DOF.
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