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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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Old 11-22-2012   #26
Godfrey
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Originally Posted by CaptZoom View Post
...
I don't like having extra possessions, which means one camera system at a time. ...
I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
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Old 11-22-2012   #27
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The only full frame mechanical rangefinder on the market isn't special?
It's expensive, it's very high quality ... i guess it's special on those counts. Otherwise, it's just another camera.
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Old 11-22-2012   #28
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My couple of cents worth - I actually jumped onto the m4/3 bandwagon with OM-D 12mm, 25mm and 45mm.

I was thoroughly disappointed after running around with this system. Can't exactly expect too much especially with the cheap lenses. It just could not deliver the resolving detail and micro contrast. You will sorely be disappointed if you are used to the M9's capability.

On the hand, I am looking at future iterations of the Sony RX1 with great interest.
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Old 11-22-2012   #29
CaptZoom
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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
Probably the best advice yet. Thank you.

As for owning only one system at a time, I try to own less things each year. So strictly speaking, I can have more than one system at a time, I just have to give up other things to make up for it. At the moment, I'm not willing to do this.
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Old 11-22-2012   #30
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I accepted a two year contract for exclusively shooting commercial photography for a firm. So it seems, I'll be giving up the M for the next couple of years.

I didn't care for the 5DMk2 and Canon's control layout (or lack there of), so looks like I'll either be giving the new Sony a try with Ziess lenses or the Oly.
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Old 11-23-2012   #31
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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
+2 Well said. I had to chuckle: "ooh, closet's full - time to sell."
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Old 11-23-2012   #32
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I would base my choice on the needs of the firm. It might be your best choice could be a Nikon D800 with either AF-S Nikkors or Zeiss ZF manual focus lenses. Particularly if you need to provide much flash lit imaging, the Nikon works very well.
Lots of flash...lol!?!
I've been using strobes with my M (blasphemy, I know). I use my M9 as a studio camera and if you think the 90 f2.8 is good in natural light, you'll be blown away with what the lens does when fed with optimal lighting

I'm keeping the Nikon option open. The firm wants me to create images for their catalogue. They manufacture home goods and want the catalogue to have the same vibe as that from Williams & Sonoma, Pottery Barn, and Crate & Barrel. They're building a studio to my specs in their warehouse! Next week I'll try out the M9 to see if I can make it work and how much time it takes. Though, I'm sure something with live view will work better. Having live capture via laptop would be spectacular.
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Old 11-23-2012   #33
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No doubt you can make the M9 work in that setting, if you already have a lot of strobe experience etc. with it. But it sounds like you will be in a studio setting all the time, and I assume you will not be photographing live subjects. Therefore I would go with whatever makes it easiest to work tethered. Ideally, I would probably have one or two cameras permanently on tripods and one to move around freely with.
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Old 11-23-2012   #34
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OM-D seems very capable camera, small and weather sealed, good high ISO. but would never change M9 to that. they compliment each other more than replace.
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Old 11-23-2012   #35
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+2 Well said. I had to chuckle: "ooh, closet's full - time to sell."
LOL! It is funny, also happens to be where I am right now. My space is limited, and there is too much in there. So I've sold a few things already and will be selling a good bit more of the excess in the next few weeks.

It's an equipment cycle I've become all too accustomed to in the past twenty years... :-)

G

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Then less is more, until it's not enough.
This applies to all things.
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Old 11-23-2012   #36
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I think it is a good idea, afterwards you will be able to trade the 4/3rds system for an Iphone, and finally trade the Iphone for postal pigeons.
BTW, I've heard that Holga is the new rage in town. Simplify...
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Old 11-23-2012   #37
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I think it is a good idea, afterwards you will be able to trade the 4/3rds system for an Iphone, and finally trade the Iphone for postal pigeons.
BTW, I've heard that Holga is the new rage in town. Simplify...
My sarcasm detector seems to be malfunctioning.
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Old 11-23-2012   #38
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No doubt you can make the M9 work in that setting, if you already have a lot of strobe experience etc. with it. But it sounds like you will be in a studio setting all the time, and I assume you will not be photographing live subjects. Therefore I would go with whatever makes it easiest to work tethered. Ideally, I would probably have one or two cameras permanently on tripods and one to move around freely with.
I think the company will be buying a camera as well. I'll know more on Monday, but the supervisor seems keen on purchasing one. If that is the case, I'll have access to that camera as well.
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Old 11-23-2012   #39
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Agree

Wise words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
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Old 12-15-2012   #40
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OMD plus a Leica "film" body is the right combo
ciao
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Old 12-15-2012   #41
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I have both. I'm keeping both. At least until there's a native macro lens for the M system and a hotshoe flash that isn't the size of a tank, that takes 4xAA batteries and has bounce/swivel.

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Old 12-15-2012   #42
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I used to have an M9 and I loved it. Then it got stolen. DId not have the money to replace it so I got an OM-D and I love it. At first I really had to get used to it, and AF did not do what I wanted. But after some tweaking and learning I got used to it. I use it with the pana 20/1.7 and with an adapter for my M lenses. The truth is: a lot of features are very handy, AF, image stabilisation and video. It is smaller and quieter. I can use it one handed thanks to AF. But more importantly, it is so much better than the M9 in higher iso modes. Not just noise, but much more dynamic range. What I do miss from the M9 is small DOF, and the use of my summilux 50 as a 50mm lens. I also do miss the rangefinder. I will probably get a used M9 later, or maybe even an M, but for now, I am taking great photos with my M9.
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Old 12-15-2012   #43
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The M9 is depreciating quickly. Sell now. I shoot mostly with the Fuji X-Pro1 and Panasonic M4/3rds (GX1 and G3). I like the range of lenses available for M4/3rds. I have great zooms that range from 7-300mm and two great primes (20 and 25mm). SO the versatility is tremendous. But when I want great image quality, I use the Fuji. My Canon 5D Mark II and lenses are now collecting dust. The small size of the Fuji and M4/3rds systems is a great advantage.
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Old 12-15-2012   #44
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The M9 is depreciating quickly. Sell now. ...
I don't know why the M9 'depreciating quickly' should make me want to sell it.

Having had Micro-FourThirds equipment in the past, and pro-DSLR equipment, I'm more than delighted with my M9. Even if it is technically obsolete, it still produces superb photos which is what I bought it for.

If the M9 isn't working for you, THEN consider selling it for equipment that suits you better. Not because it's depreciating at whatever rate.

I'd sell a lot of my other gear before selling the M9 at this point. :-) Really love this camera.
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Old 12-16-2012   #45
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I don't know why the M9 'depreciating quickly' should make me want to sell it.

Having had Micro-FourThirds equipment in the past, and pro-DSLR equipment, I'm more than delighted with my M9. Even if it is technically obsolete, it still produces superb photos which is what I bought it for.

If the M9 isn't working for you, THEN consider selling it for equipment that suits you better. Not because it's depreciating at whatever rate.

I'd sell a lot of my other gear before selling the M9 at this point. :-) Really love this camera.
I would agree especially with the 'depreciating quickly' bit ,keep the M9 until its worn out!, thats what I'm going to do with mine.
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Old 12-16-2012   #46
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Guys, I was considering selling the M9 because it is not meeting my needs. Unexpectedly I was offered (and accepted) a well paying commercial photography contract for two years. The M9 just isn't productive in the high paced environment. I really need something with a LiveView feed (for the software I have to use). And the parallax is adding a lot of time in PP. I'm not slow with PS and LR, but at this point I'm editing about 700 photos daily (for multiple eventual uses-die cuts, 360 web display, web store display, print catalogue). In a few months, we'll be adding 3D capabilities as well. Maybe the new M would work, but the M9 isn't.

In any case, the wifey nixed the notion of selling the M9. She says she's never seen me take better photos (especially hers) than I do with the M9, and she's never seen me happier than when I have the M9 in my hands. So...the M9 stays. I suppose next year some time, I'll add another camera. Until than, I'm gonna have to put up with the borrowed Canon dSLR.

Also, I'm not concerned with the monetary depreciation. Such depreciation would only be a concern if the camera wasn't seeing any use. As long as I continue to use the M9, the value (or depreciation) is amortized and is most certainly cheaper than building another system which will likely depreciate much faster than the M9. How long has the M8 been around? It still sells for close to 2K! That's remarkable. In a year, the Oly M-5 will not be selling anywhere close to its initial retail price of $1000.
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Old 12-16-2012   #47
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For production work like that there's no doubt at all, for me anyway, that a modern pro-grade DSLR with Live View and video capture capabilities is the right tool. That's what I used when I was doing that kind of work (my camera was an Olympus E-5, which was terrific at this stuff). The E-M5 is there too, nearly as competent in all ways as the E-5 (except for fast moving sports work, hand held with long lenses).

It sounds like you've made a good decision on what to keep for yourself and what to use for your paying work. Two very different needs, solved by two very different camera systems.

Good luck with your contract! And continued good luck with your M9! :-)

G
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Old 12-16-2012   #48
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Real camera vs. toy camera?

(Dons flameproof suit...)

Cheers,

R.
I realize that you're joking, but a real camera is a camera that can be used to make real work. When I see great photos in big prints that David Alan Harvey and others are producing with micro 4/3 gear (GF1 nd GX1), it's hard to retain any doubt that these are real cameras.

FWIW, DAH also shoots with an M9, D800, Mamiya 7, and Leica S2.
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Old 12-16-2012   #49
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For production work like that there's no doubt at all, for me anyway, that a modern pro-grade DSLR with Live View and video capture capabilities is the right tool. That's what I used when I was doing that kind of work (my camera was an Olympus E-5, which was terrific at this stuff). The E-M5 is there too, nearly as competent in all ways as the E-5 (except for fast moving sports work, hand held with long lenses).

It sounds like you've made a good decision on what to keep for yourself and what to use for your paying work. Two very different needs, solved by two very different camera systems.

Good luck with your contract! And continued good luck with your M9! :-)


G
Thanks.
The M9's still seeing plenty if use for every thing else, including paid work (weddings, portraits, etc).
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