Trade M9 for m4/3
Old 11-08-2012   #1
CaptZoom
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Trade M9 for m4/3

Over the last year or so I don't know how many times and countless hours I've spent convincing myself to trade in my M9 system for a m4/3 system (OMD-5 or GH3). M4/3 smaller bodies, weather sealed, great ergonomics, tactile programmable buttons, tilt-able screens, sensor based image stabilization on the Oly, better battery life, good build quality, good color capture, more than significantly cheaper, better flash sync speed and sync options. Yet just when I get ready to put the M9 on sale, I can't. Dunno why, I just can't. I guess this is what love is.
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Old 11-08-2012   #2
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Real camera vs. toy camera?

(Dons flameproof suit...)

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Old 11-08-2012   #3
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this does seem like an apples and grapefruits kind of thing.

honestly, i don't understand comparisons between leica and anything else.
a drf in this day and age is something that a person must really want...choosing between a fuji and a sony...that i can understand.
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Old 11-08-2012   #4
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Originally Posted by back alley View Post
this does seem like an apples and grapefruits kind of thing.

honestly, i don't understand comparisons between leica and anything else.
a drf in this day and age is something that a person must really want...choosing between a fuji and a sony...that i can understand.
Nah... More like kangaroos and telescopes.

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Old 11-08-2012   #5
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Real camera vs. toy camera?

(Dons flameproof suit...)

Cheers,

R.
This statement pretty much sums up my view of the two systems. Micro four thirds is a well established system that promises so much but the cameras are too 'digital' and the sensor is too small if you are used to the quality you get with a full frame sensor.

By 'too 'digital' ' I mean that everything is electronic, Electronic VF, information communicated electronically (shutter speed, aperture etc)

However many people really like that these days, especially people who haven't used manual film cameras extensively.

I have had an Leica M8 and Lumix G1 G2, Oly EP-1 and still have a E-PM1 and got a fuji X100 yesterday

The M8 was.. well an M8, wonderful output in good light and great handling and user interface (replaced with a Nikon D3 as I was sick of the low light performance and unreliably)

The Micro four thirds all leave me cold, I like the idea of them but don't enjoy using them. I tried a OM-D for a few hours and even that didn't do it for me as much as I like the weather sealed aspect of it. I would consider spending sometime with an OM-D before making a judgement on ergonomics, I wasn't impressed, too small and fiddly for me.

Early days but the X100 seems to be the best of both worlds for me so far.
Great IQ, Great low light performance, Great handling, OVF!
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Old 11-08-2012   #6
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they really cannot compare...leicas are demanding in many ways...many people may get frustrated if lack the passion for them...and the time to practice...
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Old 11-08-2012   #7
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Only one choice in FF coupled range finders. Mx

If you can live with all the down sides it is ok and my choice. AF and relatively little d o f

Is more important than the RF!

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Old 11-08-2012   #8
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Real camera vs. toy camera?

(Dons flameproof suit...)

Cheers,

R.
OK then my Hasselblad digital system compared to my M9. The M9 is a toy by that reasoning.

Yes you can compare the M9 and M4/3 cameras. They both produce images but IMO it depends on how each will be used as to whether you can compare them. You can compare pure image quality but it's much more than that. You wouldn't shoot mid field sports with an M9. An M9 wouldn't be a good under water camera. The Hasselblad wouldn't be the ideal camera for sports but would be ideal for fashion or studio illustration. The M9 would not make a good product camera. If it's for snapshots either the M9 or OM would do fine.

IMO a good 4/3 camera is a better choice for most people.
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Old 11-08-2012   #9
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I sold my M9 recently and now use OM-D and an X-Pro1 systems.

The Leica image quality at low ISO is a little better than the Fuji, which is a little better than the Oly. Obviously, only the Leica is an RF, but it also offers the over-stuffed ham sandwich digital Leica ergonomic experience. The reliability, handling, and feel of a nice film M (M3/P for me) is much preferable ( though off-topic). Of the M9, OMD and Fuji, I prefer the Fuji for handling; as for build quality; obviously none of these are toys.

So far I have not missed the M9 a bit.
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Old 11-08-2012   #10
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OK then my Hasselblad digital system compared to my M9. The M9 is a toy by that reasoning.

Yes you can compare the M9 and M4/3 cameras. They both produce images but IMO it depends on how each will be used as to whether you can compare them. You can compare pure image quality but it's much more than that. You wouldn't shoot mid field sports with an M9. An M9 wouldn't be a good under water camera. The Hasselblad wouldn't be the ideal camera for sports but would be ideal for fashion or studio illustration. The M9 would not make a good product camera. If it's for snapshots either the M9 or OM would do fine.

IMO a good 4/3 camera is a better choice for most people.
Right first time.

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Old 11-08-2012   #11
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Guys noticed I said things like weather sealing and better portability, not video, resolution or autofocus! In any case, I have no regrets about the M9 and its on no danger of being replaced any time soon (as evidenced by my inability to prt with it). That damned thing just feels right...not sure quite how to quantify that!
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Old 11-08-2012   #12
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I don't think there's anything special about the M9. For me the optics are special and make using the M9 worthwhile. If I could use my M lenses on my Nikon D800 I would rarely use my M9. I wouldn't sell it but it would get much less use. It's the wide open performance of the new glass like the 24 Elmar, 35 Summilux FLE, 50 Summilux asph and 90 apo asph Summicron. No other 35 makers lenses perform as well. Stopped down two stops there's no big difference.
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Old 11-09-2012   #13
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The answer is to have both. I bought a mft Panasonic G1 when they first came out. It uses its own zoom lens plus the Leica/Zeiss and even a couple of Canon FD relics. It has tilting screen, superb fo r macro, handles long lenses well etc.

I hate it - it hardly ever sees daylight. Too fiddly, too complicated, too many menus. But if I need to do something that my M8 (not gone M9 yet) can't do it is available.
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Old 11-09-2012   #14
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Never used an OM-D, but I can't believe the GH3 has better ergonomics than an M9, I had a Lumix G1, and it was very confusing in IMHO.

I get the weather sealing thing though, I've missed shots because I was in heavy rain with camera I didn't want to get wet.
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Old 11-09-2012   #15
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Quote:
Trade M9 for m4/3
umm......, nope!
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Old 11-09-2012   #16
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Quote:
Trade M9 for m4/3



umm......, nope!
I agree - it must be "Trade M9 for M4/3 plus a few thousand $".
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Old 11-09-2012   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptZoom View Post
Over the last year or so I don't know how many times and countless hours I've spent convincing myself to trade in my M9 system for a m4/3 system (OMD-5 or GH3). M4/3 smaller bodies, weather sealed, great ergonomics, tactile programmable buttons, tilt-able screens, sensor based image stabilization on the Oly, better battery life, good build quality, good color capture, more than significantly cheaper, better flash sync speed and sync options. Yet just when I get ready to put the M9 on sale, I can't. Dunno why, I just can't. I guess this is what love is.
You might feel better if you got a Ricoh GXR-M to be friends with your M9. Great build quality, great performance with M lenses, and it might satisfy the appetite that is making you sometimes want an m4/3.

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Kind of like Ferrari 360 or F350 pickup
Old 11-09-2012   #18
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Kind of like Ferrari 360 or F350 pickup

Both are excellent at what they do, but they are very different ways to get the job done.

If moving a couch is your goal the Ferrari sucks. If a track day is your goal, the F350 sucks equally bad.

If your goal is really the daily commute after dropping the kids at school either sucks equally bad but for different reasons.

My suggestion is if you have the money laying around, get both and enjoy them for what the do best, and savor the differences in work methods where they overlap.

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Old 11-09-2012   #19
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Dunno why, I just can't. I guess this is what love is.
Don't do it. You'll regret it. However, perhaps you have a nice Leica lens that doesn't get used that much? Sell that and start your Micro 4/3 set-up. Nothing wrong with using both.
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Old 11-09-2012   #20
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I don't think there's anything special about the M9. For me the optics are special and make using the M9 worthwhile.
The only full frame mechanical rangefinder on the market isn't special?
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Old 11-09-2012   #21
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Never used an OM-D, but I can't believe the GH3 has better ergonomics than an M9, I had a Lumix G1, and it was very confusing in IMHO.

I get the weather sealing thing though, I've missed shots because I was in heavy rain with camera I didn't want to get wet.
Not better ergonomics, rather good ergonomics. On the M9, my only complain is the location if the ISO button. It should be close to the shutter release, or at the very least some place where I can use it without having to take the camera away from my face. I will definitely upgrade my M9 to a new M when they include weather sealing (done with the new M), and relocation (or availability of a custom button) of the ISO to a readily accessible area.
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Old 11-09-2012   #22
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Don't do it. You'll regret it. However, perhaps you have a nice Leica lens that doesn't get used that much? Sell that and start your Micro 4/3 set-up. Nothing wrong with using both.
Good advice and sentiment.
I don't like having extra possessions, which means one camera system at a time. I think I get GAS every now and than which is when my interest in the m4/3 spikes. But I have to admit, the weather sealing is really tempting and I may follow your advice and for that reason and maintain a minimal setup just to use in adverse weather conditions.

Some one mentioned the Ricoh. I don't think the Ricoh is weather sealed, and that's a definite deal breaker.

Weather sealing in sunny SoCal!?!
Well, it does occasionally rain here, and I do take trips to the ski resorts. But mostly, I need the sealing for photos at the beach and when I photograph my child who has a knack for finding water to play with in most places we go: zoo, aquarium, parks, etc. To be honest, the M9 has survived a few splashes but I just as soon rather avoid that horrible sinking feeling of horror
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Old 11-22-2012   #23
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Some one mentioned the Ricoh. I don't think the Ricoh is weather sealed, and that's a definite deal breaker.
What's the point of having a weather sealed body with no WR* lenses to go with it? You might as well go with Pentax - at least they have weather sealed zooms and 3 long primes. And the K30 is not that much bigger than the OMD, and smaller than the new GH3.

*WR - weather resistant
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Old 11-22-2012   #24
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I sold my M9, replaced it with an OMd (plus 12mm, 20mm, 45mm, battery grip and some spare batteries as well as an adaptor for my 85mm f/2 135mm/f2.8 plus a useful wedge leftover.)

Obviously my circumstances are my own and it works for me, though IQ clearly isn't at the M9 standard which I do miss a little. However, I'm now looking for a beaten up old (basically cheap) film M as a hobby/pure joy to use camera...though I'm also intrigued by the Leica R range.

I agree with jsrockit, you may well regret it or regret aspects of losing the M9. For me its the slightly lower IQ which in some situations isn't noticeable whilst in others can be a little annoying. If you can afford to buy one and try them alongside each other it might be worth doing.

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Old 11-22-2012   #25
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If you sell the M9, and in 6 months you decide you made a mistake, you can re-buy for less, such is the nature of digital pricing.
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Old 11-22-2012   #26
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...
I don't like having extra possessions, which means one camera system at a time. ...
I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
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Old 11-22-2012   #27
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The only full frame mechanical rangefinder on the market isn't special?
It's expensive, it's very high quality ... i guess it's special on those counts. Otherwise, it's just another camera.
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Old 11-22-2012   #28
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My couple of cents worth - I actually jumped onto the m4/3 bandwagon with OM-D 12mm, 25mm and 45mm.

I was thoroughly disappointed after running around with this system. Can't exactly expect too much especially with the cheap lenses. It just could not deliver the resolving detail and micro contrast. You will sorely be disappointed if you are used to the M9's capability.

On the hand, I am looking at future iterations of the Sony RX1 with great interest.
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Old 11-22-2012   #29
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I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
Probably the best advice yet. Thank you.

As for owning only one system at a time, I try to own less things each year. So strictly speaking, I can have more than one system at a time, I just have to give up other things to make up for it. At the moment, I'm not willing to do this.
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Old 11-22-2012   #30
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I accepted a two year contract for exclusively shooting commercial photography for a firm. So it seems, I'll be giving up the M for the next couple of years.

I didn't care for the 5DMk2 and Canon's control layout (or lack there of), so looks like I'll either be giving the new Sony a try with Ziess lenses or the Oly.
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Old 11-23-2012   #31
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I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
+2 Well said. I had to chuckle: "ooh, closet's full - time to sell."
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Old 11-23-2012   #32
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I would base my choice on the needs of the firm. It might be your best choice could be a Nikon D800 with either AF-S Nikkors or Zeiss ZF manual focus lenses. Particularly if you need to provide much flash lit imaging, the Nikon works very well.
Lots of flash...lol!?!
I've been using strobes with my M (blasphemy, I know). I use my M9 as a studio camera and if you think the 90 f2.8 is good in natural light, you'll be blown away with what the lens does when fed with optimal lighting

I'm keeping the Nikon option open. The firm wants me to create images for their catalogue. They manufacture home goods and want the catalogue to have the same vibe as that from Williams & Sonoma, Pottery Barn, and Crate & Barrel. They're building a studio to my specs in their warehouse! Next week I'll try out the M9 to see if I can make it work and how much time it takes. Though, I'm sure something with live view will work better. Having live capture via laptop would be spectacular.
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Old 11-23-2012   #33
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No doubt you can make the M9 work in that setting, if you already have a lot of strobe experience etc. with it. But it sounds like you will be in a studio setting all the time, and I assume you will not be photographing live subjects. Therefore I would go with whatever makes it easiest to work tethered. Ideally, I would probably have one or two cameras permanently on tripods and one to move around freely with.
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Old 11-23-2012   #34
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OM-D seems very capable camera, small and weather sealed, good high ISO. but would never change M9 to that. they compliment each other more than replace.
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Old 11-23-2012   #35
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+2 Well said. I had to chuckle: "ooh, closet's full - time to sell."
LOL! It is funny, also happens to be where I am right now. My space is limited, and there is too much in there. So I've sold a few things already and will be selling a good bit more of the excess in the next few weeks.

It's an equipment cycle I've become all too accustomed to in the past twenty years... :-)

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Old 11-23-2012   #36
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I think it is a good idea, afterwards you will be able to trade the 4/3rds system for an Iphone, and finally trade the Iphone for postal pigeons.
BTW, I've heard that Holga is the new rage in town. Simplify...
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Old 11-23-2012   #37
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I think it is a good idea, afterwards you will be able to trade the 4/3rds system for an Iphone, and finally trade the Iphone for postal pigeons.
BTW, I've heard that Holga is the new rage in town. Simplify...
My sarcasm detector seems to be malfunctioning.
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Old 11-23-2012   #38
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No doubt you can make the M9 work in that setting, if you already have a lot of strobe experience etc. with it. But it sounds like you will be in a studio setting all the time, and I assume you will not be photographing live subjects. Therefore I would go with whatever makes it easiest to work tethered. Ideally, I would probably have one or two cameras permanently on tripods and one to move around freely with.
I think the company will be buying a camera as well. I'll know more on Monday, but the supervisor seems keen on purchasing one. If that is the case, I'll have access to that camera as well.
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Agree
Old 11-23-2012   #39
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Agree

Wise words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I gave up on the religiosity of adherence to that ideal. There are tons of cameras in my closet. As long as I don't need the money, they can stay there and not bother me, until the closet is over-full. Then I sell what I am not using. When I need the money, I sell what I don't want, or what will bring in the money I need.

Sell an M9 for an E-M5? Sure, why not? If the E-M5 is going to work better for getting your photos made, do it. If it's just following another fad or stroking a case of GAS, well, only you will be able to know and curb that urge.

I hate to sell stuff I might have trouble replacing, but I've bought and sold hundreds of great cameras and lenses over the years. Know what? I've never found a case where I sold something and then could not replace any time I wanted, given the money. And have, on several occasions.

Do whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you able to do the photography you want. That's what matters. Life's to short to be anxious about buying and selling cameras.
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Old 12-15-2012   #40
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OMD plus a Leica "film" body is the right combo
ciao
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Leica M8 - nokton 40/1.4
Nikon v1-10/2.8
Gf1 + zuiko 12/2
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