Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Digital Rangefinder Cameras > Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M"

Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 11-07-2012   #26
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is online now
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 20,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegman View Post
I like the Monochrom, although I don't use digital at all at the moment. I won't get one, but I do admire Leica for making it in the first place.

It serves no real practical purpose, but why does it need to? It's $8k or whatever, but one man's $8k is another man's $100.

Nice camera, I think Leica has balls for making it, but I could spend $8k differently.
As, for example, on a darkroom.

I'm perfectly happy that my M9 has replaced slide film, but if I want B+W prints, I still prefer my film Ms.

Cheers,

R.
__________________
Now even more free photography information on www.rogerandfrances.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2012   #27
thegman
Registered User
 
thegman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 35
Posts: 3,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
As, for example, on a darkroom.

I'm perfectly happy that my M9 has replaced slide film, but if I want B+W prints, I still prefer my film Ms.

Cheers,

R.
If I had space, a darkroom, and perhaps a Walker 4x5 if I had time to use it.
__________________
My Blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2012   #28
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is online now
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 22,787
I have never used an MM, so I cannot say much about using this camera. I doubt it that I will ever buy one because B&W is not my thing really. Still, I am enjoying a newly found liking for B&W with the M8. It will have to do for me. The M9 is used for color.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2012   #29
helenhill_HH
mOderator
 
helenhill_HH's Avatar
 
helenhill_HH is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Between Shadows & Light
Posts: 5,025
HELLO Icebear / Klaus
Haha... a Bloody Mary it was
Jeez, i had no Idea i actually held an MM
feel Quite Silly now
Now I really must try it again PLEASE ...
fully conscious
at the next RFF meetup

Lovely Shot You Posted / without PP ....Beautiful Girl, Beautiful makeup
and yes to me it just has that Mono 'Feel'... something kind of Rich & Lush with a Dark slightly Cinematic presence... Wonderful Indeed

I still firmly Believe
a Sensor has its Own Look
Then the lens with its visual qualities add to the Look
and finally the PP (if one chooses to Do it)

Just look at various digital cameras output BEFORE PP ...
some are astoundingly sharp...some less so
I have heard here at RFF that some people see the Files of the M8 to be Sharper than the M9
the M9 being Rounder & Softer
certainly the sensor must play apart in that

look at the Sigma DP' series...that FOEVEN sensor has a look All its own

I Feel that the Monochrom also has its own 'Look' before PP
Stylized with an Option to Heighten to a Grand level

Don't get me wrong I think the M is Outstanding
and on some levels is just okay

Again, kudos to Leica for creating such a marvel
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2012   #30
douglasf13
Registered User
 
douglasf13's Avatar
 
douglasf13 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
- just expose for the highlights and pull the shadows up.
If you blow a hole in your image in the sun it is simply exposure error. I know - I learnt the hard way.
+1. That's basically how I shoot all of my cameras these days, including the M9. The camera's usable DR is simply a matter of how much you can bring up in the shadows. The M9 is good at this, and the MM looks even better. I'm sure the new M 240 will be better than my M9, too, but I don't run out of latitude THAT often, so I'm not sure if I need to spend more for the option.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2012   #31
Doug
Moderator
 
Doug's Avatar
 
Doug is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 11,086
Let's please respect others' opinions and keep the discussion on topic and civil!
__________________
Doug’s Gallery
RFF on Facebook
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2012   #32
icebear
Registered User
 
icebear's Avatar
 
icebear is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: just west of the big apple
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
...
Now I really must try it again PLEASE ...
fully conscious
at the next RFF meetup
....
Hello Helen,
sorry I won't make it to the next meet up. I booked two lectures at the NJ PhotoExpo on Nov. 18th.

Best regards
Klaus
__________________
Klaus
You have to be there !
M3, M6, MP , M9, MM & a bunch of glass

my gallery:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...d=6650&showall
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #33
cam
the need for speed
 
cam's Avatar
 
cam is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: paris no more
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
I still firmly Believe
a Sensor has its Own Look
Then the lens with its visual qualities add to the Look
and finally the PP (if one chooses to Do it)
hi, helen!

i totally agree with you about the sensor and, personally, i absolutely adore the look of it. it is an absolutely perfect marriage of my vision, capturing what i see, with far less PP needed than any other digital camera i've owned (except, perhaps, the R-D1).

i only used some older lenses on it (E58 Nocti, 50 Lux pre-asph, v.1 35 Cron) and was blown away with the tonalities i got in the shadows. very rich, very lush, with a sensuality of sorts like a melted mix of bittersweet, milk, and white chocolate. the sensor is pure decadence!
__________________
my flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #34
helenhill_HH
mOderator
 
helenhill_HH's Avatar
 
helenhill_HH is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Between Shadows & Light
Posts: 5,025
Hey Cam,
So Wonderful to see You post again...have missed You !!

Pleased You too 'see' the Individual 'Look' of. Sensors'

Great to hear about your using a
Pre asph Glass & LOVING it on the Monochrom

Mitch called me last week .. (Asked about You)
He was in a Swoon over the Mono
Unfortunately he has not been able to use it much
But feels passionately that Leica made a Gem
He would be Blissfully Content with just his MM and his GRDiV

Well Best to. You & Kevin
Give me a Shout if You plan a Trip to New Yawk
xo- H
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #35
understatement
Registered User
 
understatement is offline
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 72
As an MM owner, I would say I choose it because of the size (being an RF, having used an M6), the time taken in developing the photos (not being film) but most importantly how it just gets out of my way. If a photograph is ruined, it was my fault. The exposure is up to me, the focus is up to me and there isn't any chips second guessing my intentions.

That all being said I guess its just personal, but isn't it always? Thankfully though, if we didn't think differently how boring would the world be.
__________________
www.peterdavidgrant.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #36
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
 
dogberryjr's Avatar
 
dogberryjr is online now
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WV, USA
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Why? An average photographer will take average pictures, regardless of camera. I want to see what a GOOD photographer can do, so I have something to aspire to.

Cheers,

R.
Yes, you nailed it! Of course I only want to see the work of average photographers, the less skill the better!

/sarcasm
__________________
M, LTM, FD, F, Film, Digital, MF . . . Jack of all, master of none.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #37
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 41
Posts: 14,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post
Hello Helen,
sorry I won't make it to the next meet up. I booked two lectures at the NJ PhotoExpo on Nov. 18th.

Best regards
Klaus
The meet-up is this Sunday the 11th.
  Reply With Quote

MM $$$$$$$$ M$$$$$ M9$$$ M8$$ X Pro 1 $$!! All great for B&W !
Old 11-08-2012   #38
eleskin
Registered User
 
eleskin is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,045
MM $$$$$$$$ M$$$$$ M9$$$ M8$$ X Pro 1 $$!! All great for B&W !

MM files look great, but not all. Same with the M9, M8 and X Pro 1. It is a matter of taste and what you can afford. For me, the MM is very expensive to the point where used M9's are looking better to me. The M8 (which I have,) produces great files too for B&W but is older technology. I have also seen great B&W from the X Pro1 and to tell you the truth, may be my next camera, even after looking at the new Leica M at Photo Plus in NYC (That 35 f1.4 is killer for the price).
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #39
cam
the need for speed
 
cam's Avatar
 
cam is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: paris no more
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Hey Cam,
So Wonderful to see You post again...have missed You !!

Pleased You too 'see' the Individual 'Look' of. Sensors'

Great to hear about your using a
Pre asph Glass & LOVING it on the Monochrom

Mitch called me last week .. (Asked about You)
He was in a Swoon over the Mono
Unfortunately he has not been able to use it much
But feels passionately that Leica made a Gem
He would be Blissfully Content with just his MM and his GRDiV

Well Best to. You & Kevin
Give me a Shout if You plan a Trip to New Yawk
xo- H
missed you too!

the camera is definitely swoon-worthy, especially with all the old gorgeous glass. it's the first digital, imo, with enough resolution to show their differences and character in all their glory.

the first time i got a chance to play with it was briefly at a store and ran over to the print area so i could shoot in the dark. i used the gorgeous woman who had been making M9 prints for me (most@2500) and when she saw what the Monochrom had done, she looked at me and said I had to get it and print really big
__________________
my flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #40
Paul Luscher
Registered User
 
Paul Luscher is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 650
I'm perfectly happy to stick with my M9. Frankly, for $8,000 I want a camera which shoots both B&W and color, so to speak. Yes, converting a color image to black and white may be winky-dink, as the article cited in the original post suggests, but so what? They look pretty good to me.

I think the idea that B&W is the province of REALLY GOOD photographers, and that only B&W photos are REALLY GOOD photos is a holdover from the 1930s--1950s, and the days of Leica users like David, Duncan, Eisenstadt, etc (which explains why certain M users will only load their filmers with B&W film and think that shooting color with a Leica is heresy). But I suspect that one of the reasons those giants of photography shot in B&W is largely because color film then was rare, slow, and likely expensive, not necessarily because of any aesthetic preference (and of course D. Duncan DID shoot in color, too).

But as I see it, that was sixty years ago, and no need to let the dead hand of the past dictate our idea of photographic excellence now. I used to be a proponent of the "only B&W is good photography" idea when I first started out. But then I realized that the human world sees in color, and that you CAN create photos just as striking in color as in B&W, if you're careful (and I might mention it may actually be HARDER to shoot in color than B&W--with B&W you can create a great photo with composition, form and tones. But even if you have all those elements in a color photo, it can fall flat if the colors are boring or ugly, or clash--which is why I sometimes convert to B&W).

So, to repeat, I may be a weenie, but for $8K, I want a camera that essentially gives me my choice of whether to go color or B&W. Don't want to box myself in....
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #41
Doug
Moderator
 
Doug's Avatar
 
Doug is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 11,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Luscher View Post
...So, to repeat, I may be a weenie, but for $8K, I want a camera that essentially gives me my choice of whether to go color or B&W. Don't want to box myself in....
Right, and I think boxing oneself in is just the point of the M Monochrom. Those who might previously have shot only black & white film voluntarily boxed themselves in, so to speak. Yet this is often an advantage in staying on track with "seeing" in black & white. And the MM, being dedicated to this purpose, appears to be very good at it.

Others, who might carry a second camera loaded with color film, or a second medium format back with color, would be more aligned with your view and prefer to have the choice at the time of shooting. These folks (along with those who shoot only color) would show little interest in the MM, and prefer the M9, ME, or forthcoming M.

I admire Leica for filling the niche within a niche by producing a dedicated B&W machine. There really is no direct competition, always a nice position to hold. I won't be buying an M Monochrom myself, but I hope enough others will make the effort profitable for Leica.
__________________
Doug’s Gallery
RFF on Facebook
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2012   #42
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
 
jaapv's Avatar
 
jaapv is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hellevoetsluis,Netherlands
Posts: 7,335
I think the MM as single camera is useful for 100% B&W shooters only. After all, even with film we had a choice. The MM is best in combination with an M9.
I think the best photographs come from visualizing them in the first place, not by changing tack halfway the process. Although that may be needed as an emergency cover-up sometimes.
__________________
Jaap








jaapvphotography
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #43
cam
the need for speed
 
cam's Avatar
 
cam is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: paris no more
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
I think the MM as single camera is useful for 100% B&W shooters only. After all, even with film we had a choice. The MM is best in combination with an M9.
I think the best photographs come from visualizing them in the first place, not by changing tack halfway the process. Although that may be needed as an emergency cover-up sometimes.
see i am a 100% black and white shooter. that is what i see and that is what i shoot. colour just distracts, imo, and when i notice it nowadays it is only in terms of what b/w tones i will be getting from it.

i did a behind-the-scenes shoot for an LP cover recently, documenting the event. we corralled all the images together and it was the first time my boyfriend had seen RAW from the M9 and he kept on commenting on how gorgeous the colour was. i honestly never noticed
__________________
my flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #44
J. Borger
Registered User
 
J. Borger is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 944
If you like what's coming straight of the MM sensor and/or what you can do with PP the MM might be to someone's liking. Espcialy for the convenience.
If you thry to simulate a certain B&W FILM look though with a digital camera, the MM is not better than any other digital camera. In fact i think a lot of posted samples have an over digital look to it. Especially the night shots and the low iso pictures.
I tried to love the MM but i have been there: using all kind of old glass , adding a bit of grain etc.. with my M8 and RD1 to get a desccent B&W look i can get straight of a camera loaded with B&W film. Do not want to get into that same workflow again wit an MM.

The MM is certainly not the game-changer for B&W photography Leica wants you to believe. Film still rules for B&W!
For me the MM is about high resolution and clean high iso performance: both are not relevant for the B&W photography i like.
__________________
my website
my RFF gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #45
cam
the need for speed
 
cam's Avatar
 
cam is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: paris no more
Posts: 666
but you've forgotten one important thing -- high ISO. not just the look, but the fact that it can.

i shoot frequently in very low light situations where 2500 w/an F/1 lens is not enough. even with underexposure (which can look really ugly on an M8 or M9 if you try and bring it up), i cannot always get the shutter speed fast enough. whilst blur can be very cool and expressionist, sometimes i would prefer to be able to catch the moment clearly.

this may not be relevant to your photography, but it certainly is for mine.
__________________
my flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #46
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
 
jaapv's Avatar
 
jaapv is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hellevoetsluis,Netherlands
Posts: 7,335
I think simulating film with a digital camera is kitsch. As it is I prefer the look of good digital cameras, especially the MM. We only like film better because our eyes and minds have been trained into it over the decades. YMMV. having said that, there is nothing wrong with film, but it is different. I fear the game has been changed irrevocably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Borger View Post
If you like what's coming straight of the MM sensor and/or what you can do with PP the MM might be to someone's liking. Espcialy for the convenience.
If you thry to simulate a certain B&W FILM look though with a digital camera, the MM is not better than any other digital camera. In fact i think a lot of posted samples have an over digital look to it. Especially the night shots and the low iso pictures.
I tried to love the MM but i have been there: using all kind of old glass , adding a bit of grain etc.. with my M8 and RD1 to get a desccent B&W look i can get straight of a camera loaded with B&W film. Do not want to get into that same workflow again wit an MM.

The MM is certainly not the game-changer for B&W photography Leica wants you to believe. Film still rules for B&W!
For me the MM is about high resolution and clean high iso performance: both are not relevant for the B&W photography i like.
__________________
Jaap








jaapvphotography
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #47
J. Borger
Registered User
 
J. Borger is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
I think simulating film with a digital camera is kitsch. As it is I prefer the look of good digital cameras, especially the MM. We only like film better because our eyes and minds have been trained into it over the decades. YMMV. having said that, there is nothing wrong with film, but it is different. I fear the game has been changed irrevocably.
Agree! Since i do not want to get into fakery anymore i stick with film for B&W since my preference lies there.
The game might have changed but will never be over. I see more and more people shooting film when i am out on the streets. Especially young people, art students and professinal photographers working on personal work or just shooting for their pleasure. Compared to the whole market the film market is and will always be a niche in for sure. Glad to be part of it
__________________
my website
my RFF gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #48
J. Borger
Registered User
 
J. Borger is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by cam View Post
but you've forgotten one important thing -- high ISO. not just the look, but the fact that it can.

i shoot frequently in very low light situations where 2500 w/an F/1 lens is not enough. even with underexposure (which can look really ugly on an M8 or M9 if you try and bring it up), i cannot always get the shutter speed fast enough. whilst blur can be very cool and expressionist, sometimes i would prefer to be able to catch the moment clearly.

this may not be relevant to your photography, but it certainly is for mine.
In that case your needs are different and i understand why you might want to shoot digital. I simply do not like the look of clean high iso low light shots when it comes to B&W photography. In color it,s a different story.
__________________
my website
my RFF gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #49
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
 
jaapv's Avatar
 
jaapv is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hellevoetsluis,Netherlands
Posts: 7,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Borger View Post
Agree! Since i do not want to get into fakery anymore i stick with film for B&W since my preference lies there.
The game might have changed but will never be over. I see more and more people shooting film when i am out on the streets. Especially young people, art students and professinal photographers working on personal work or just shooting for their pleasure. Compared to the whole market the film market is and will always be a niche in for sure. Glad to be part of it
So we are one niche conversing with another
__________________
Jaap








jaapvphotography
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2012   #50
borge
Registered User
 
borge is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 51
Love - definitely.
A camera has never grown faster on me.
__________________
Bo Photography
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:07.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.