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Olympus OMD 54 21.34%
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Something else 50 19.76%
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If you could do it all over again...X-E1 or OMD
Old 10-30-2012   #1
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If you could do it all over again...X-E1 or OMD

GAS aside (is it ever for us?) if you had to buy your CSC, EVIL, mirrorless, or whatever you want to call it all over again with what we have today what would you do?


I am keeping the poll options to what seem to be the two most "popular" cameras right now, but feel free to ring in with something else!
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Old 10-30-2012   #2
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I already have. The X-E1, and lovin it. Will still do film, and loads of it. But may consider giving up 135, and just shooting 120 and bigger.
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Old 10-30-2012   #3
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I for one am coming off a well used Olympus EP1. I only have two lenses, the old kit zoom and the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 (which I love) though I have access to the Panasonic 7-14 and 45-200 both of which I love as well. But my joy is with the prime and thats what lives on my camera. The EP1 is really showing its age though, the image quality compared to what's out there now...sucks. I never want to look at images at 100% because I always feel disappointed.

If I had to upgrade I would be thinking of an Olympus OMD or Fuji XE1. I love the Olympus for its in body stabilization which I might find hard to live without now. Though I don't miss it with the Leica M9. Since I only really have one lens that I use with m43 staying in system is not a biggy, though I do sometimes like to use my adapted lenses, especially my old Exakta Carl Zeiss 50mm f2 Pancolar. Still, buying a new set of adapters is no biggy either. That Fuji is tempting. Its basically the same sort of set up as the Olympus body wise to me, minus some of the Oly's perks, but bringing some of its own. I feel the Oly seems a little small in my hands too, the Fuji's RF style design is more ergonomic for me (assuming it's similar to the X100 which I hear it is).

If I had to choose now I would have a hard time. Locally the OMD is a whole $350 US more expensive than the Fuji, which is about right at its normal $1000 price point. Thats a big difference, but then I have a lens for the Old and would need to get one for the Fuji. Still, the Fuji is something new and interesting......
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Old 10-30-2012   #4
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I own the XP-1, so the XE-1 would be my choice.

The OMD is a fine system. I never considered it because the sensor is to small for my goals. Others have different goals, so the OMD is an excellent choice for them. The sealed construction and stabilization are very useful. The quick AF and articulated screen is also very useful.
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Old 10-30-2012   #5
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The OM-D and the X-E1 are two cameras I am considering buying.

I can't really deside which one.
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Old 10-30-2012   #6
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shoot film, shoot film, get an M9 when you have saved enough imo, all the rest is a disrtraction and waste of time imo, to answer the question honestly
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Old 10-30-2012   #7
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M9 doesn't provide weather sealing which alone makes the Oly appealing. The image stabilization is the cherry on top.
I use the M9 exclusively, and it sucks when I can't take it out because of questionable weather. I've been seriously considering adding the Oly. I probably will when the next model comes out and this one can be had at a much lower price. I have my primary camera, so I can afford to wait. If I was in the market for a new body today, the Oly would be at the top of my short list.
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Old 10-30-2012   #8
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I don't think the electronic viewfinder is quite good enough alone yet, so I'll stick to the X100 and think about a XPro-1 for a while yet
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Old 10-30-2012   #9
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OMD for me. I greatly prefer it for the majority of my work, which is macro stuff.
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Old 10-30-2012   #10
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I use the xpro1 and x100 and would buy them again despite the newer cameras. I hated the omd.
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Old 10-30-2012   #11
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X-pro1 for me. I've settled on one as my digital. For anything where I need more IQ I'll use medium format film. Ergonomics are perfect, lenses are great, and the larger sensor is nicer than the m4/3 sized chip.

The OVF in the x-pro1 makes the whole thing work so well. The XE1 may have a better EVF, but to be honest the unit in the x-pro1 is easily good enough for my uses. Even in low light. Even in fast street settings. Very impressed.
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Old 10-30-2012   #12
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As long as we are talking about the EVIL cameras, then I would probably stick with the OM-D (or Panasonic GH series for the video performance). It's quite simply the most complete package. Sony NEX is good, but I just don't like the system very much. Fuji would get more interesting if there was Aperture support.
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Old 10-31-2012   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I use the xpro1 and x100 and would buy them again despite the newer cameras. I hated the omd.

Damn ... did it cheat on you or drown your puppy, or something like that?
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Old 10-31-2012   #14
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i picked the obvious, more superior option.. film
but if i did have to choose i would go for the OMD. i love olympus and they have never let me down. i used to own the X100 and although the output of the camera was the best ive seen for a compact APS-C camera, it was too quirky. ive heard the X Pro 1 was kind of finicky too so i am staying clear of Fuji digital for a little bit.
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Old 10-31-2012   #15
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NEX-7. The OMD has a much smaller sensor and the Fujis are quirky. Some may like the lens selection on the Fuji better but the 24mm Zeiss is just perfect and the only lens i need.
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Old 10-31-2012   #16
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Quote:
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Damn ... did it cheat on you or drown your puppy, or something like that?
No, why are you so hurt by the fact that I hated a camera? The way a camera feels in your hand is important if you are going to use it everyday. It felt like a tv remote control to me.
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Old 10-31-2012   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
No, why are you so hurt by the fact that I hated a camera? The way a camera feels in your hand is important if you are going to use it everyday. It felt like a tv remote control to me.

I've had cameras that were dogs but I never hated them.

I wasn't hurt personally ... just puzzled by the use of such a strong term for a consumer product that ultimately didn't suit you.
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Old 10-31-2012   #18
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If I had to do it all again, which mirrorless system would I buy? As owner of the M-system, OM-D and Ricoh GXR system, this isn't the easiest question. I would still own all three. With adapter/module, Leica lenses can be used on both the OM-D and GXR.

The OM-D is the camera I use in spotty weather, and for when I want an all-in-one camera with zoom and HD video. I was in the market for the X-Pro 1 but immediately jumped for the OM-D when I experienced the features like touchscreen shooting, super fast and silent focus, and the full HD video which is miles ahead of the Fuji cams. The X cams can produce amazing images but there are times when I really want a camera I can use when weather is bad, or when I want to take decent video.
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Old 10-31-2012   #19
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Quote:
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If I had to do it all again, which mirrorless system would I buy? As owner of the M-system, OM-D and Ricoh GXR system, this isn't the easiest question. I would still own all three. With adapter/module, Leica lenses can be used on both the OM-D and GXR.
I`ve been thinking of exactly the same set up.
I currently have two M bodies and a GRD but want something to take my SLR lenses to use for outdoor sport type events in the English winter.
Going to have to check out that "feel" factor though `cause I agree with JS ...it is important.
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Old 10-31-2012   #20
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Quote:
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I've had cameras that were dogs but I never hated them.

I wasn't hurt personally ... just puzzled by the use of such a strong term for a consumer product that ultimately didn't suit you.
No problem. I don't have a problem using the the word for an inanimate object. However, I'd feel the same way as you if it was a person. True, hate is too strong for this camera. It's actually quite good, just not for my needs.
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Old 10-31-2012   #21
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You know.... I think what I really want is an Xpro1 but in the XE1's size. Dont say its not possible because the X100 still has a nice optical viewfinder and we should hope that Fuji is in for the long run on this system. I think it will happen eventually.
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Old 10-31-2012   #22
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Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
I own the XP-1, so the XE-1 would be my choice.

The OMD is a fine system. I never considered it because the sensor is to small for my goals. Others have different goals, so the OMD is an excellent choice for them. The sealed construction and stabilization are very useful. The quick AF and articulated screen is also very useful.
I went with the Fuji system for a variety of reasons, but this is a weak argument. The difference in sensor size between APS-C and 4/3 is ~23%. That is not enough of a difference to be operationally meaningful.

The past differences between m4/3 sensors and APS-C had more to do with Panasonic lagging Sony a bit in sensor tech. Now that Olympus is using a Sony sensor in the OM-D, the difference in sensor performance is pretty much nulled.
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Old 10-31-2012   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semilog View Post
I went with the Fuji system for a variety of reasons, but this is a weak argument. The difference in sensor size between APS-C and 4/3 is ~23%. That is not enough of a difference to be operationally meaningful.

The past differences between m4/3 sensors and APS-C had more to do with Panasonic lagging Sony a bit in sensor tech. Now that Olympus is using a Sony sensor in the OM-D, the difference in sensor performance is pretty much nulled.
I completely disagree with you.

Looking at the raw image ISO 1600 comparisons on DPREVIEW, there is a difference.

The sensor surface area is the most significant factor that determines performance for similar implimentations of sensor technology. The OM-D sensor area is 224.9 mm^2 compared to 368.16 mm^2 for the XP-1. The m4/3 area is 61% of the Fuji's area. The OM-D collects 39% less data which is a non-trivial handicap. I agree the OM-D does very well compared to previous m 4/3 cameras. It's not competitive for me.

I stated in my first post the difference was important to me and not important for others. I really don't care what other people buy or why they buy it. But the physics of light digitization is relevant to image quality.
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Old 10-31-2012   #24
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OM-D.

Fuji system is too quirky and no IS or weathersealing.

I've tried multiple systems and the IQ argument is very weak. There is always a larger format and better performance, but most of the APS-C options and OM-D are neck-and-neck IMHO.

I have no problem with film except I can't buy it or process it where I live. I still love using my film bodies though.

I didn't want to like the OM-D at first but in the end there were too few arguments against it. Now, IMHO it seems like many of those who choose against the OM-D do so because of an anti-establishment bent or desire to be 'better' than those who went with the OM-D.
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Old 10-31-2012   #25
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PS- I would love to try an M9, MM, or new M if someone wants to loan me one.
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Old 10-31-2012   #26
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Quote:
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Now, IMHO it seems like many of those who choose against the OM-D do so because of an anti-establishment bent or desire to be 'better' than those who went with the OM-D.
Come on man, you really think this? Perhaps some just like that the Fuji has dedicated shutter speed dials and aperture rings and doesn't feel like a TV remote control?
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Old 11-01-2012   #27
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Quote:
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Fuji system is too quirky and no IS or weathersealing.

I didn't want to like the OM-D at first but in the end there were too few arguments against it. Now, IMHO it seems like many of those who choose against the OM-D do so because of an anti-establishment bent or desire to be 'better' than those who went with the OM-D.
That really depends on who you ask - I find olympus digital cameras extremely quirky. The menu system on the om-d is frightfully disorganized and overly complex. The x-pro1 has manual dials/controls and a simple menu, and a single AF spot. Not sure how that's classified as quirky, but each to their own.

A lot of us started out with m4/3 in mirrorless cameras 2-3 years ago, and got sick of waiting for olympus and panasonic (mainly olympus) to bring out an advanced camera with the built-in finder, and fast primes. However many years on, there is STILL no decent fast 35mm equivalent AF lens for m4/3. Panasonic filled in the lineup a little bit recently, but the panasonic supply chain is dismal for their lumix gear outside of japan.

Sonys NEX lens lineup is still nonexistent.

Fuji on the other hand, had a fairly comprehensive lens lineup out of the box with the x-system (28mm f2, x100 35mm f2, 50mm f1.4, 90mm f2.4 equivalents), and next year you can add a 21mm f2.8, 35mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, 2x fast IS zooms, and several zeiss AF lenses to that list.
Fuji hit the ground running with pretty much everything we were asking for, whilst olympus fumbled around with non-sensical superzooms and dumbed down compacts released one after the other for years.

That's why a lot of us feel strongly about the Fuji's.
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Old 11-01-2012   #28
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Quote:
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That really depends on who you ask - I find olympus digital cameras extremely quirky. The menu system on the om-d is frightfully disorganized and overly complex. The x-pro1 has manual dials/controls and a simple menu, and a single AF spot. Not sure how that's classified as quirky, but each to their own.

A lot of us started out with m4/3 in mirrorless cameras 2-3 years ago, and got sick of waiting for olympus and panasonic (mainly olympus) to bring out an advanced camera with the built-in finder, and fast primes. However many years on, there is STILL no decent fast 35mm equivalent AF lens for m4/3. Panasonic filled in the lineup a little bit recently, but the panasonic supply chain is dismal for their lumix gear outside of japan.

Sonys NEX lens lineup is still nonexistent.

Fuji on the other hand, had a fairly comprehensive lens lineup out of the box with the x-system (28mm f2, x100 35mm f2, 50mm f1.4, 90mm f2.4 equivalents), and next year you can add a 21mm f2.8, 35mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, 2x fast IS zooms, and several zeiss AF lenses to that list.
Fuji hit the ground running with pretty much everything we were asking for, whilst olympus fumbled around with non-sensical superzooms and dumbed down compacts released one after the other for years.

That's why a lot of us feel strongly about the Fuji's.
I agree about the menu system, but the nice thing is that once you set it up, you shouldn't have to touch it. I also agree about the NEX lens lineup.

It seems to me that the two lens systems are about the same, not that Fuji's is superior. However, m43's system seems more open and expandable since there's more manufacturers onboard (of course they include low-end superzooms though).
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Old 11-05-2012   #29
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I am aware than OM-D is on the 'small size' sensor-wise, but it is the most complete and developed product on the mirror-less market right now (body design, lens offer, ...). And it has definite size advantage what for me would be a plus, as I will, for the foreseeable future, cary a medium format camera with me.

I am still waiting for that external impulse (should I say 'need') to buy a mirror-less camera In comparison to film cameras - mirror-less cameras getting better ever couple of months, so no hurry on my side.
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Old 11-19-2012   #30
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I prefer the aspect ratio of micro four thirds cameras. This can have quite an effect on the final appearance of an image. Film is still beaut though and addresses many of the issues people talk about - battery life, complicated menus, limited depth of field, lack of prime/zoom lenses and so on.
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Old 12-08-2012   #31
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The OM-D collects 39% less data which is a non-trivial handicap.
You're assuming that both sensor architectures have similar quantum efficiency and noise characteristics. Sony (manufacturer of the EM5 sensor) has been ahead on both fronts for long enough that that's probably not a good assumption.

I really like the output from the Fuji sensor but I believe that to have more to do with the non-Beyer array pattern and the camera's JPEG image processing pipeline than simple sensor area.
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Old 12-08-2012   #32
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I spent some time with a Fuji X Pro 1 when it first came out and was extremely impressed with the general feel and layout of the camera! (In fact, I think this is the best consumer camera on the market with regard to control usability.)

However, focusing was pokey, camera raw support non-existent and the price high so I passed.

In the interim, the OM-D was released and I purchased one as soon as it was available. (I had an EP-2 and brace of m4/3 lenses so this was an easy decision.)

The OM-D has exceeded all my expectations and is small enough to carry along with a film body. (Paradoxically, the size of the OM-D is both a plus and a negative! It is easy to tote along, but it is also a bit too small for most adult males.)

As such, I have no need or interest in the Fuji XE-1. For me, the Pro-1 is the more compelling product. Hopefully, the next iteration will be the cats meow!
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Old 12-08-2012   #33
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OM-D.
Fuji cameras feels flimsy in my hand, dials move around on their base, that kind of thing.

Olympus (or Sony NEX) has higher build quality and with the new Sony sensor (good riddance, Panasonic), the image quality is now unquestionable.

The only thing that will prevent me from getting the OM-D is a Pen -class digital camera that has a real viewfinder.

That or a full-frame E-7 (hahah, keep dreaming on that one )
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Old 12-08-2012   #34
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Many of the comparisons in this thread are of the mountains-out-of-molehills variety.

I'm using an X-E1 and before that had an X-Pro1. I've looked at the NEX's and examined the NEX-7's RAW output closely using a large series of test images that I shot. I've looked closely at the OM-D and I used a GF1 exclusively for a two week vacation. Bottom line: Anyone who can't use the NEX's or the Fuji X's or an OM-D or a GX1 to make good images is a wanker. They're all quite similar in performance and all can be made to work for most sorts of general photography if you're even halfway competent.

We are in a golden age. It is too easy to forget that all of these cameras are amazingly capable for their size and price.

If you need markedly better file quality you'll be wanting a D800 or something bigger. Yes, it really is that simple. The technical differences between the cameras under discussion in this thread are incremental. Maybe half a generation of sensor development.

Last week I was watching David Alan Harvey put up big exhibition prints made by Mike Courvoisier, up to 40" x 60." They were made with GF1, D700, D800, M9, M6, Mamiya 7. All looked fantastic, though of course the D800 and Ma7 prints were a (technical) cut above the rest: more detail and tonal subtlety than the others. N.b.: the prints expected to bring the highest price were shot with the GF1. Let that be a lesson to us all.

DAH is currently shooting mainly with a Panasonic GX1 and a Leica S2, and his Mamiya 7 is still in use as well.
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Old 12-08-2012   #35
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OM-D or Fuji X... this is my problem ! I'll end in buying another (cheaper) film camera
Seriously I'm in the market for one of these, I have small hands and I like to travel light so Oly should be the obvious choice. But the OVF of the X-pro1 is interesting. And the size of the xe1 is not so bigger than the oly...if I only could compare them in my hands and at my eye....
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Old 12-08-2012   #36
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Robert, I've owned both and the X-Pro1 feels a lot bigger to me than the X-E1. The X-E1 is just a bit smaller than an M6, a bit bigger than a CLE. Close to the size of a GF1. To me this is THE sweet spot in camera size and weight. The X-Pro1 is the size of an M9. Frankly, that's too big for my taste. Just a bit too big, but over the line. I'm currently using the XE-1. With the XF 18/2 I sometimes use a Zeiss optical finder. To my surprise I prefer this arrangement to the X-Pro. I've been using it to shoot nighttime basketball, close-in. Basketball pictures were the first things I ever shot for money, back in the film dark ages (HP5 at EI1600 with fill strobe off a bounce card, on deadline... wahoo!).

These new cameras are genuinely remarkable. The OM-D and GX1, the NEX-7, the X-E1... all a little different, all awesome. Some differences in lens lineups, some differences in control layout and viewing methods. None of these a big deal now that there are good fast medium-to-wide lenses for all systems. The Zeiss 24/1.8 for NEX is tremendous (if a bit bulky), as is the Panasonic 20/1.7. I'm a huge fan of the Fuji 18/2 and prefer its slightly wider FoV.

XF 18/2, ambient light, manual exposure, 1/250, f/3.2, ISO3200... JPEG straight-out-of-camera (over-sharpening courtesy of flickr)... and the RAW files look great in color, too.

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Old 12-08-2012   #37
robert blu
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@semilog: great shot! And thanks for your suggestions, grazie!
robert
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Old 12-08-2012   #38
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I'm afraid I saw the title of the thread and immediately thought of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h7WZtZgszc

(that is a great shot, semilog!)

Adrian
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Old 12-22-2012   #39
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ive had an ep2 and naturally went to the omd assuming i would love it. i also had an x100 at the same time. i agree all these new cams/systems are in certain ways amazing, but are clearly aimed at different goals. as a piece of hardware--IS, touch screen focus/shooting, weatherproofing etc--you cannot beat the omd. if those things are ones primary concerns, nothing beats the omd. but its IQ was to me noticeably inferior to the x100 in the world of AF, and to my lowly 12mp gxr using rf lenses. my belief is the lack of AA filter vaults the IQ of other cameras noticeably over the oly, though i remain a fan of the company.

so if IQ was my paramount concern, and i wanted an AF system, hands down i'd choose fuji, whose rendition and quality lens lineup beat sonys. but if i wanted to use the system also with rf lenses, i myself think the only choice is the gxr (or the much more expensive M line). to use all or in part with slr lenses, fuji or sony line, depending on ones preference of the 'look' of the final product. imo the fuji just has a lovely color rendition, handles highlights better, and b&w is the best most film like ive seen.

at the end of the day sly stone said it best: different strokes for different folks.
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Old 12-23-2012   #40
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OM-D vs XE1 -- the question that keeps us all awake at night. ;-)

It should be mentioned, the other factor is cost. I was leaning towards the Fuji (beautiful image samples on the web). But then, Olympus had a brief sale on their online store, and I was able to get an OM-D refurb at, well, half of list price.

I've had bad luck with digital cameras in general, they always seem to last only a year before they break or I get fed up with them. So for me the cheaper camera is the better camera: film is my main interest, anyway.

So, this year, I'll suffer to endure the lowly OM-D, knowing my images are inferior to the sublime Fuji, oh the agony of it, how can I bear to press the shutter. ;-) But then there's always next year...
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