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Initial impressions Sigma dp2m
Old 10-20-2012   #1
GaryLH
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Initial impressions Sigma dp2m

I just got the camera last night. It has the latest firmware update already.
Made the following changes already to the default values
- turned off all the sounds
- set auto iso from 100-400
- color space is adobe
- raw+jpg at highest quality
- priority af (means while acquire focus don't worry about LCD)
- af limit
- af/mf mode instead of plain af

Set display to optical finder mode and slapped my 40 bright view finder on it... There is a green focus confirm led next to right of hot shoe.. Works pretty well.

Af speed about where Fuji x100 was w/ version 1 fw. LCD ok, but decide to c if I can get better battery life w/ it setup using ovf style.

Largest raw is around 55mb. Jpg is running around 8.4mb. That is a lot of stuff going to sd card :eek

7 frame buffer w/ count down. U can shoot while fames being written to sd card. Using Sandisk extreme pro (95mbs) 16gb card, raw+jpg holds around 235. Takes a good 5-7 seconds per frame. Not playback until everything is sent to sd card.

Amazing amount of detail and info...In the converted from raw to tiff file.

Gary
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Sigma photo SW
Old 10-20-2012   #2
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Sigma photo SW

I have iMac w/ 8 gb of memory and dual core i5 3.6ghz.

The SW has not crashed on me yet and was not slow until u did a save to tiff 16, then it was a bit slower than normal, but still not to bad.

Downloaded the latest from sigma website. No cd or DVD in package from sigma.

Gary

Ps. Here is link to sigma site where u can find their photo editor. I am mainly using it to convert to raw and import ack into Aperture to do the real work.
http://www.sigma-dp.com/download/photopro.html

Last edited by GaryLH : 10-20-2012 at 16:33. Reason: Ps
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Old 10-20-2012   #3
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The converted tiff16 file is 85mb

Gary
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Old 10-20-2012   #4
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Good technical info and impressions. Now ... how amazing are the photographs?
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Old 10-20-2012   #5
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Original out of camera jpg

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Old 10-20-2012   #6
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Raw converted to tiff 16

Run thru my normal aperture enhancement script. The amount of detail shows up much better in the 85mb file then it does here in the 1024 limit files.

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Old 10-20-2012   #7
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Tiff 16 converted to b&w

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Old 10-20-2012   #8
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Center crop from converted tiff 16

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Old 10-20-2012   #9
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The crop of the crop

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Old 10-20-2012   #10
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This camera will never replace my Fuji xp1 given its limitations, but for situations where i can take my time, I don't think anything outside of a medium or large format cameras can beat the iq I am seeing.

Gary
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Old 10-20-2012   #11
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Great info Gary, please feel free to keep posting more insights!! This cam is on my list for the future..
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Old 10-20-2012   #12
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Thanks bugmento and lam

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Old 10-20-2012   #13
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Lens looks like it hits optimal at f4 and f5.6, but f2.8 is already pretty good. The picture above was shot at f4.

Manual focus feels pretty good. No auto-mag that I can figure out to set when u turn the focus ring on lens. Need to use ok key to go to magnification.

Dof bar info changes on the distance scale as u change f stop. W/ the limited iso capability and shallow dof of the 30f2.8 lens, I would not use this for street shooting where u are zone focused and shooting from hip.. U need to e at f16.. Got to have some bright sunny day to get fast enough shutter speed since there is no stabilization.

Gary
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Old 10-20-2012   #14
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Gary, the last file doesn't look very sharp to me. The crop of the crop. Possibly the f4 aperture.
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Old 10-20-2012   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbg32 View Post
Gary, the last file doesn't look very sharp to me. The crop of the crop. Possibly the f4 aperture.
It could be me this is hand held at 1/60 f4 iso 250. I exported the crop as a jpg and tiff from aperture library to double check, since Flickr is only using jpg instead of my tiff original.

It is not quite as sharp as the other, but it looks a tad sharper than the Flickr version...

The exported jpg is 557kb and an exported tiff ended up 4.2 mb. The tiff is showing more detail then the jpg.

I am not as steady as I used to be. The 1/focal length rules doesn't work for me any longer. My minimum these days is really 1/125th

Gary
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Old 10-20-2012   #16
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Congratulations, Gary!

Detail is amazing. What are your feelings about the color?

I saw a reconditioned one at discount on amazon.fr and just had to.

Could be a damaging year with all those XF lenses coming, too
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Old 10-20-2012   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
Congratulations, Gary!

Detail is amazing. What are your feelings about the color?

I saw a reconditioned one at discount on amazon.fr and just had to.

Could be a damaging year with all those XF lenses coming, too
Thanks. The color looks real good to me. I know what u mean. My wallet is starting to hurt already

Preorder on the 21 and xe1 kit this year. 2013 i want the 23 and 28...

GAS got the better of me on this dp2m

Gary
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More updates
Old 10-20-2012   #18
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More updates

Noisiest af mechanism of any of my cameras. With all the sounds turned off, that is all u hear. The actual shutter is almost dead quiet.

AF does better w/ vertical lines. Sometimes works w/ horizontal ones but more often then not it will start hunting.

Interesting that where ever u last left off in terms of manual focus distance, if u switch to af for a while and then switch back to mf mode, it remembers where u left off.

Af limit just removes the check for distances shorter than 1m. Can be toggle active or off via the up arrow (used for all focus options). So far cannot tell if this has helped or not..

Gary
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Old 10-20-2012   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Thanks. The color looks real good to me. I know what u mean. My wallet is starting to hurt already

Preorder on the 21 and xe1 kit this year. 2013 i want the 23 and 28...

GAS got the better of me on this dp2m

Gary

I hear you about GAS. The DP2M wasn't even on the radar for me.

My plans for the X system were originally set around the 14, 27 and 56, in addition to the 35 I already have. So far had exercised enormous restraint sticking to that one 35 (and M lenses) while waiting for the others. But with a DP2M coming, there might be a serious reallocation of resources as I think about a set of Lee filters, a really nice tripod, big cards, an external OVF, and maybe even a DP1M...
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ISO 100 f5.6 shots
Old 10-21-2012   #20
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ISO 100 f5.6 shots

Here is set of 4 pictures. The first is full frame iso 100 @f5.6 tiff converted from raw, run thru my normal aperture default script. The other three are crops from that shot...

Btw the original tiff looks better than the Flickr web posted jpgs.

Also from my iso testing, 100 and 200 are best as expected. 400 next best but by 800, it drops off much more compared to 400. 1600 marginal acceptable due to color smearing. Converted to BW u can definitely c the noise.

Gary




Bottom middle



Top of wall



Side crop
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I forgot to add the bottom right and top left crops
Old 10-21-2012   #21
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I forgot to add the bottom right and top left crops

The af focus point was dead enter of the wall btw.

Bottom right corner

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Old 10-21-2012   #22
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Top left corner

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Old 10-21-2012   #23
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Jaw-dropping resolution and sharpness across the frame. Whoa!

I'm trying to figure this out now. Originally everyone was gaga about Foveon sensors for their color rendition. With the DP2M, it seems the conversation has switched to the sensor-matched lens.

The verdict on the color seems to be hanging in the balance, as we hear reports of color drift, splotching, etc...

I was just sending all of my Velvia positives back to Taipei to get developed, but that is becoming unbearably slow. Were I to buy the film and develop here in western Europe, the price of a DP2M wouldn't even cover a year's worth (and that's not including scanning, which I can fortunately do myself).

I am really bowled over by some of the technical qualities of the DP2M images, enough to want to try it out. I wonder if I have the patience to make it work for me, particularly with regards to color???
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Old 10-21-2012   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
Jaw-dropping resolution and sharpness across the frame. Whoa!

I'm trying to figure this out now. Originally everyone was gaga about Foveon sensors for their color rendition. With the DP2M, it seems the conversation has switched to the sensor-matched lens.

The verdict on the color seems to be hanging in the balance, as we hear reports of color drift, splotching, etc...

I was just sending all of my Velvia positives back to Taipei to get developed, but that is becoming unbearably slow. Were I to buy the film and develop here in western Europe, the price of a DP2M wouldn't even cover a year's worth (and that's not including scanning, which I can fortunately do myself).

I am really bowled over by some of the technical qualities of the DP2M images, enough to want to try it out. I wonder if I have the patience to make it work for me, particularly with regards to color???
At iso 800 I can just barely c some color smearing. By 1600 it is noticeable and depending out what u are shooting, color drift . By 3200 forget it..

It is really a 100-400 iso camera. The out of camera jpg are ok up to 200, but to truly see what the camera can do u need raw.

I don't shoot color slide or neg any more only b&w. Develop and scan my own, mainly 120.

As I have said in other forum threads color is digital, b&w is film .. When I first started, I was using panatomic x, plus x and tri x (25, 125, and 400). This camera forces me to use techniques I have almost forgotten about.

Been spoiled by image stabilization and high iso capabilities of today's digital cameras.

Gary
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Old 10-21-2012   #25
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There is a really interesting thread over at FM about PP challenges with the files from the DP2M. Guys using Cornerfix to fix up magenta clouds and cyan edges, as well as some occasional green blotching. Check it out!

It doesn't really motivate me all that much, and in some cases I actually prefer the imperfections. Go figure!

As for Velvia, I will continue to shoot some as long as it is available and I can afford it! Just love the look and haven't found anything like it in digital. Not necessarily better, but certainly unique.
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Some additional comments
Old 10-24-2012   #26
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Some additional comments

Sigma photo raw SW still has not crashed on me, but I suspect it is because I only use it as a raw to tiff converter. I do all my real work in aperture.

I like the way sigma implemented their quick menu system. Pretty fast to get to critical things that need to be changed. So far have not reconfigured from default.

Auto white balance when compared to Sony rx100, not as good.

Once af starts hunting or it just plain mis-focuses, ie. green confirm, but from LCD obvious bad focus, time to go to mf mode. Good thing easy to do.. with the dedicated up arrow button to change focus mode. I have only seen the bad af confirm issue so far w/ close focus subject even w/ af auto limit disabled.

I have seen the hunting mainly when light is not bright enough or contrast is not good enough even when there are both vertical and horizontal lines where I have pointed the af bracket.

Gary
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Old 10-24-2012   #27
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I just received mine yesterday, Gary. No images worth showing, but some things are clear.

The image quality at low ISO blows me away. Clarity and presence remind me of the M8, yet the resolution and color definition is just so much better. Did some comparison test shots of flowers hand held in good light against the X-Pro 1 with 35/1.4. Whoa! Better stop doing that!

Boring technical stuff:

Batteries: I can get over 90 shots on one 1250 mAh battery (consistent so far over two batteries), much higher than some reports. I've ordered a couple of 1500 mAh batteries to see if those don't go even higher. Old batteries that worked with my Fuji F20 can be used, too (provided you cut out the slots on the battery), an added bonus!

Write times are comparable to the first generation GRD, i.e., slow! And that is with the fastest card commercially available.

No problems so far using the RAW software on a Macbook Pro running Lion. And since I was used to using RPP for M8 files, I'm already conditioned and used to the extra step. Yet files are much larger and processing slower than what I am used to.

I love the 45 fov, and will definitely add the external OVF.

Sigma put the strap attachments on the right side of the camera on the back of the top panel, less than ideal for wrist strap users. (Milich's grip might address that, if you want to go that route).

Wrist straps with metal O rings will scratch the body, as I found out so I switched to a braided spectra cord, which will hold up better than leather for outdoor use.

Without a lens hood mounted, the camera fits easily inside an Ortlieb waterproof Protect pouch that I keep mounted on my backpack waistbelt. Perfect for hillwalking, backpacking, and alpinism.

Perfect, except for the limitations of the focal length (which in its own right, I love).

The DP1M beckons... If only there were a version with a 21 efov lens!
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Old 10-24-2012   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
The image quality at low ISO blows me away. Clarity and presence remind me of the M8, yet the resolution and color definition is just so much better. Did some comparison test shots of flowers hand held in good light against the X-Pro 1 with 35/1.4. Whoa! Better stop doing that!
!
Dp2m is not going to be your go to do everything camera, but nice sunny days, iso 100-200, the color and iq cannot be beat.

Btw the lens hoods are lh2-1 for dp2m and lh1-1 for the dp1m. Did u find one for your camera? I have one back ordered..

Have fun w/ it.

Gary
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Old 10-25-2012   #29
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No hood on order yet.

Have you checked your sensor yet to see whether or not it is dirty? Seems like this is one of the must-dos at the beginning.
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Old 10-25-2012   #30
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A couple of images. No cats around, so foliage and bodhisattvas will have to do

First at ISO200


Fall by the Rhône by areality4all, on Flickr

Second at ISO400

Chenrezig by areality4all, on Flickr
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Japanese website comparison between dp2m, d800e, 5dmk3 and rx100
Old 10-25-2012   #31
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Japanese website comparison between dp2m, d800e, 5dmk3 and rx100

http://type-g.at.webry.info/201208/article_4.html

Just found this while browsing. Can't read Japanese, but the picture samples are labeled well enough.

Found links in a forum thread that had direct to pictures. Cut and past below from that thread

Gary

-------------------------------- paste -------------------------------

Here you go, links to the full scene original image from each camera. D800e was using the 24-120 f4, 5Dmk3 was using the 24-105L.

Its pretty interesting to open them all up in PS and play around with them a bit. The amount of you can uprez the DP2M shots and still retain good detail is pretty phenomenal.

Nikon D800e
http://www.flickr.com/photos/type-g/...n/photostream/

DP2M
http://www.flickr.com/photos/type-g/...n/photostream/

RX100
http://www.flickr.com/photos/type-g/...n/photostream/

5D mkIII
http://www.flickr.com/photos/type-g/...n/photostream/
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Old 10-25-2012   #32
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I forgot to mention.. I wish the comparison was one w/ prime lenses on the Nikon and Canon dslrs. A bit flawed of a test but still interesting.

Gary
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Old 10-25-2012   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
If only there were a version with a 21 efov lens!
Sigma, please read that again, and again, and again...
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Old 10-25-2012   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
Have you checked your sensor yet to see whether or not it is dirty? Seems like this is one of the must-dos at the beginning.
Nope not yet.

Gary
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Old 10-25-2012   #35
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Quote:
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Sigma, please read that again, and again, and again...
I would settle for a high quality converter to get there, similar to the one Fuji did for the x100. But on the other hand, if we are talking a 24 that is a different story

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Old 10-25-2012   #36
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Quote:
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I would settle for a high quality converter to get there, similar to the one Fuji did for the x100. But on the other hand, if we are talking a 24 that is a different story

Gary

I would take a 24, too. 28 just isn't wide enough for landscape usage, which is one of the best applications for this camera, given all its speed limitations.

BTW, first experience with B&W conversions suggests this can also be one heckuva of a monochrome shooter. Tonality at low ISO is great, while the grain at 400 and higher looks to my eyes different from other digital grain I have seen. It looks less random, and more integral to the image.
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Old 10-25-2012   #37
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Wider isn't mandatory better for landscape usage. Landscape as well as portraits can be very different and often 45mm FOV landscapes are more pleasing or just better looking than wide-to-superwide landscapes with miniscule details. I know, we here know how to use WA properly, I'm talking about them who don't
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Old 10-25-2012   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
BTW, first experience with B&W conversions suggests this can also be one heckuva of a monochrome shooter. Tonality at low ISO is great, while the grain at 400 and higher looks to my eyes different from other digital grain I have seen. It looks less random, and more integral to the image.
Yep I was thinking the same thing.. Could almost be considered a poor mans Leica monochrome. or not.

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Old 10-25-2012   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btgc View Post
Wider isn't mandatory better for landscape usage. Landscape as well as portraits can be very different and often 45mm FOV landscapes are more pleasing or just better looking than wide-to-superwide landscapes with miniscule details. I know, we here know how to use WA properly, I'm talking about them who don't
Quite true...Super wides are not needed. A lot depends on the shot and what u are trying to do. I have shot landscapes with 135 and 200 lenses as well and everything in-between.

Gary
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Old 10-26-2012   #40
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Kind of OT, but as concerns landscape, it really depends on what you intend to shoot, just like Gary says.

I love to shoot sky, so really wide is often a huge advantage.

My other great passion is for mountains. But not all mountains scenes are alike. In Taiwan, where the mountains are very steep and very tight together, a WA like 18 or 21 is great. But in Auvergne, these angles will make the Crests look flattened out and boring.

When I shoot landscape I always want a normal and a wide, and, if possible, a short tele. 21, 45 and 135 would be ideal for me. When I use a film RF, I go with 21 (or 24), 50 and 90 (the 90 is sooo much lighter than the 135).

It tells you what my priorities are that I began with the DP2M. That plus the fact that the DP2M lens/sensor combo is really stunning, not to mention the 20% discount I got by stumbling on a refurbished version. I suspect the refurbishment could have been one of those models that shipped with a dirty sensor. (Yeah, I checked, and it's clean now).
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