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View Poll Results: The ME is ugly.
Strongly disagree 108 26.93%
Disagree 114 28.43%
Agree 116 28.93%
Strongly agree 63 15.71%
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Old 10-16-2012   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. View Post
It's the bad combination of red and blue which renders the camera ugly, vile and cheap.
I agree that the cool grey in the product shots doesn't look very flattering. Have you seen one in person? I'm curious what others think. To me, it looked blue-grey in the photos but neutral grey in person (possibly due to warm artificial light). Speaking in terms of just the colors and not logos, the red accent looked good against the dark grey and black.
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Old 10-16-2012   #82
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Did people ask this for the M2 / M3 or is this a symptom of Leica's maturity in the digicam age?
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Old 10-16-2012   #83
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It is the M9 minus a couple of features. No Black Paint or Chrome unless you anti up another $1000.00 or so.

Took a few photographs with the ME on Display at Glazers. A good alternative instead of investing in a new M9.

It is quite nice looking camera, not ugly at all. Perhaps someone ego would be bruised if spotted on the street with a anthracite grey paint Leica-M.

More interested in a Monochrome as a possible (way in the) future purchase vs the ME or M (10) but would not mind owning one.
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Old 10-16-2012   #84
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I strongly dislike all Leica M's that are not designed by Herbert Janke, the great designer of the M3, M2, M4 and M5 Leicas.

Erik.
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Old 10-16-2012   #85
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I strongly dislike all Leica M's that are not designed by Herbert Janke, the great designer of the M3, M2, M4 and M5 Leicas.

Erik.
seriously?



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Old 10-16-2012   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Well, the red dot IS ugly and vulgar! Sure, that's opinion too, but I think that most users would agree with me.

Cheers,

R.

Ugly and vulgar?

I'm not a Leica fan myself but I don't find the red dot to be that way. It's Leica's symbol and I don't think it looks any more out of place than the symbolised spinning propellor of BMW or the prancing horse of Ferrari.

I gather you, like many others, don't like it personally though and I'm curious as to exactly why ... do you feel it it detracts from the generally understated look of a Leica or is there some other reason?
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Old 10-16-2012   #87
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I can't deal with the mis-matching chrome dials on top! If they'd matched the anthracite, or we're at least black...
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Old 10-17-2012   #88
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Originally Posted by f6andBthere View Post
Ugly and vulgar?

I'm not a Leica fan myself but I don't find the red dot to be that way. It's Leica's symbol and I don't think it looks any more out of place than the symbolised spinning propellor of BMW or the prancing horse of Ferrari.

I gather you, like many others, don't like it personally though and I'm curious as to exactly why ... do you feel it it detracts from the generally understated look of a Leica or is there some other reason?
That's pretty much it. After all, it's a fairly recent innovation, and it serves absolutely no purpose other than to scream THIS IS A LEICA AND NOT A CHEAP IMITATION. It doesn't get a lot more vulgar than that.

The red stripe on Nikons is equally pointless and vulgar. Both smack of the evil hand of the Stylist (with a capital letter) who isn't a stylist at all but slaps something ugly and pointless onto a perfectly serviceable product in an attempt to justify his unjustifiable existence.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-17-2012   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
.... the red dot IS ugly and vulgar!.....
Yep! - As is the ghastly paint filled indents of the M8/M9. At least, in that respect, we don't have to scratch out 'ME' paint on the front of the camera to improve it's looks. I think all Leicas look better without displaying the corporate graffiti they come with.

............... Chris
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Old 10-17-2012   #90
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Yep! - As is the ghastly paint filled indents of the M8/M9. At least, in that respect, we don't have to scratch out 'ME' paint on the front of the camera to improve it's looks. I think all Leicas look better without displaying the corporate graffiti they come with.

............... Chris
Dear Chris,

You feel more strongly about this than I, but I'd certainly agree that an unadorned front-plate looks better.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-17-2012   #91
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the actual camera does not have a blue tint, from what i've seen from photos apart from the official ones. being dark gray, I quite like it, just stick a black square of tape on the red dot (no pseudo-stealthiness here, it's just that i feel the red dot brings attention to itself) and it's good to go.

i prefer the black M9 or the chrome M9P.
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Old 10-17-2012   #92
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
That's pretty much it. After all, it's a fairly recent innovation, and it serves absolutely no purpose other than to scream THIS IS A LEICA AND NOT A CHEAP IMITATION. It doesn't get a lot more vulgar than that.

The red stripe on Nikons is equally pointless and vulgar. Both smack of the evil hand of the Stylist (with a capital letter) who isn't a stylist at all but slaps something ugly and pointless onto a perfectly serviceable product in an attempt to justify his unjustifiable existence.
Usually the designer/artist/stylist is required to do that by marketing, often times against their advice because it can be vulgar like you said. You nailed the purpose and point of it all: brand recognition. This is not a recent innovation. People have been doing this for millennia. It works (although that can often be unfortunate for the consumer, if they even notice).
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Old 10-17-2012   #93
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Usually the designer/artist/stylist is required to do that by marketing, often times against their advice. You nailed the purpose and point of it all: brand recognition. This is not a recent innovation. People have been doing this for millennia. It works.
(1) Sorry, I meant that the red dot was a recent innovation.

(2) Brands? For millennia? I must be misunderstanding, as my understanding is that while brands (in the modern sense) may have made tentative appearances in the 18th century, it was not until the 19th that they became commonplace. Likewise stylists.

(3) A designer/artist/stylist who bows too much to marketing is arguably not doing his/her job.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-17-2012   #94
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
(1) Sorry, I meant that the red dot was a recent innovation.

(2) Brands? For millennia? I must be misunderstanding, as my understanding is that while brands (in the modern sense) may have made tentative appearances in the 18th century, it was not until the 19th that they became commonplace. Likewise stylists.

(3) A designer/artist/stylist who bows too much to marketing is arguably not doing his/her job.

Cheers,

R.
(2) I misunderstood the context of the Leica red dot being a recent innovation (1) and was speaking generally about identity/identification, not the modern sense. Otherwise I would have restricted it to decades, not opened it up to millennia.

(3) I agree to an extent. With many companies/clients there is a point where the person has to deliver what the people that write his/her paycheck want or else he/her won't be the one to do the job. Often times the requests are much more absurd than what we're talking about in this thread. That's a huge topic though and getting OT.

I completely agree with preferring a plain front, but I'm not sure what being a perfectly serviceable product has to do with a red accent treatment.
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Old 10-17-2012   #95
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Originally Posted by jtm6 View Post
(2) I misunderstood the context of the Leica red dot being a recent innovation (1) and was speaking generally about identity/identification, not the modern sense. Otherwise I would have restricted it to decades, not opened it up to millennia.

(3) I agree to an extent. With many companies/clients there is a point where the person has to deliver what the people that write his/her paycheck want or else he/her won't be the one to do the job. Often times the requests are much more absurd than what we're talking about in this thread. That's a huge topic though and getting OT.

I completely agree with preferring a plain front, but I'm not sure what being a perfectly serviceable product has to do with a red accent treatment.
All fair points. What I meant with the highlighted bit was that Leicas were perfectly serviceable before the red dot was added, and that said dot adds nothing. Indeed, by making the camera (slightly) more noticeable, it makes it (slightly) less serviceable. At least for taking pictures, though not as a status symbol...

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-20-2012   #96
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I handled an M-E today, at Newtonville Camera, and it's not ugly. Doesn't look cheap. The grey is understated, the reverse-Panda scheme with the silver knobs looks just fine. Looks loads better than the hammertone Leicas, to my eyes.

I like the lack of frameline preview lever on the front, although having just picked up a 40mm Summicron, I might actually deliberately use my preview lever for once.
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Old 10-20-2012   #97
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i don't think it looks ugly. it just looks less attractive than it could be, and leica knows it. in digital, they always bring out a cleaner, better looking version 1.5 years later. just be patient.
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Old 10-21-2012   #98
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I have one of the limited special edition "anti-panda" M8s, which I think is quite pleasing. Here it is with the Rollei Sonnar mounted, a dynamite combo...


Anti-Panda M8 by areality4all, on Flickr

Too many colors (black, chrome, red, grey) give the M-E a disconcerted, inchoate feeling. The M-E would probably look even better if the red dot were replaced with a black one. Or if the dials were replaced with black ones.

The black dot and black chrome of the anti-panda M8 lend it depth that holds together well against the chrome accents and chrome lens. I also took out the white lettering, and love the aura that the brassing lends to it.
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Old 10-21-2012   #99
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I have one of the limited special edition "anti-panda" M8s, which I think is quite pleasing. Here it is with the Rollei Sonnar mounted, a dynamite combo...
To be honest, I think this anti-panda M8, which you seem to find good-looking, illustrates clearly that different people have different tastes.
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Old 10-21-2012   #100
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To be honest, I think this anti-panda M8, which you seem to find good-looking, illustrates clearly that different people have different tastes.

Thanks, Pieter. I was expecting it .

The comparison is relevant of course because the M-E basically is an anti-panda with off-color chrome.

I would like the M-E much better if the leatherette were coordinated with the blue-grey chrome.
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Old 10-22-2012   #101
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I actually think it is not bad,with black instead of chrome I might be seriously interested.It could serve as my x-pro back up.
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Old 10-22-2012   #102
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Not to mentioned that you scratched out the white M8 letters...
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Old 10-22-2012   #103
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The color combo reminds me of a lomo Diana.

The body covers look cheap, like it's made of vinyl from a roadside diner.

I'll stick with the black M9 personally.
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Old 10-22-2012   #104
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Quote:
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Not to mentioned that you scratched out the white M8 letters...
Actually removed them with rubbing alcohol, not scratching. Once the white was removed, my photos started to look much better

Quote:
Originally Posted by clicker View Post
It could serve as my x-pro back up.


Makes a nice combo, but the M8 in the bag gets kind of heavy at the end of the day.
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Old 10-24-2012   #105
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I have been shooting Leicas since 1977 This thing is butt ugly
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Old 10-25-2012   #106
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I have been shooting Leicas since 1977 This thing is butt ugly
Well, I've been shooting 'em since 1969 and it looks fine to me, so maybe experience and aesthetics are not closely related.

Also, I've seen some really beautiful butts in my time.

Cheers,

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Old 10-26-2012   #107
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Also, I've seen some really beautiful butts in my time.

Cheers,

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Old 10-28-2012   #108
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I saw one in the flesh today (Camera not ass unfortunately) And it's far better looking colour wise than the pictures would suggest.
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Old 10-28-2012   #109
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So,

anybody bring up this yet?



vs




See anything familiar-looking?

That bottom model is a wartime Leica IIIc Kugellager camera, highly collectable in good condition.

Now how could any serious collector withstand the M-E when Leica is putting out a camera that resembles that wartime IIIc in design that much?

I've seen the M-E at Meister Camera in Berlin and the color of both body and 'chrome' is real close to the wartime Barnack. Too much so to be a coincidence, I'd say.
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Old 10-28-2012   #110
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So, this thread is till going, eh? That's funny.

Interesting to look at the poll. While the majority disagrees or strongly disagrees that the camera is ugly, a very large minority agrees or strongly agrees that it IS ugly. If you compared this to other Leica models, I doubt the poll would be anywhere near close.

So concluding that the design / color scheme is unpopular at least among some significant segment of potential buyers is not out of the question. What might be interesting from a strictly marketing standpoint would be to try to determine the degree to which the design / color scheme actually prevented sales outright, or influenced the decision to upgrade to the more expensive M. Or what a poll of folks involved with product design would reveal.

I can't imagine Leica marketing would be happy about this "controversy" if you could even call it that given that poll-takers on this forum are already a preselected bunch. I wonder what a broader pool of camera enthusiasts would think, including those who may not have heard of, or care about the Leica brand.

Finally, I do agree with Roger about Nikon's red stripe. Very silly, actually. But I don't care enough about it to cover it up, and I think the black tape crowd is generally overzealous about stuff like this.
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Old 10-28-2012   #111
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..... I think the black tape crowd is generally overzealous about stuff like this.
I'm glad not to be a zealot then. I've got a dark green dot over my Leica-red-dot-graffiti, and I've also got a dark green dot over the silver lens release button.

Zero zealousness!

.............. Chris
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Old 10-28-2012   #112
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I doubt the Leica designers would be surprised with the outcome of this poll. Almost any non standard color Leica has been a big controversy. If it's not black or steel grey/chrome it's a controversy. Most of the voters in this thread probably have an opinion on black chrome versus black paint, so it would be silly to think they won't have an opinion on a dark-grey that most us would think of as non-standard (nice find on the Kugellager).

Basically this M9 is designed to not be the M9 or the M9P, since it's supposed to be a different price category. Else it would seem like just a price reduction on a digital camera that's years old. (which it obviously is, but the color helps the sell of this reduction)
And they needed to consolidate the two different colors in a one color-model which would be able to take both black and chrome lenses. (I dont think they succeeded in making this a good option for chrome lenses)

I doubt many people outside of these forums care as much as we do about the color of this camera. Without the preconceptions about what a Leica camera should look like, I bet most wouldn't worry about the color so much.
We're just not the target audience of this, and if you care enough about the design you probably already have a M9P or you would prefer to buy a M10 later.
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Old 10-28-2012   #113
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The more I see the M-E the less I dislike it ; even thinking it would look great with a chrome lens.

However the more I see the big M and the big red dot on the M-240 the less I like it.
Once I've blacked out the M and red dot, the front face is going to look very plain without the illumination window
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Old 10-28-2012   #114
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SOOO, I've handled an M-E earlier today at the Leica shop. Just dull dark gray. I didn't dislike it, though I much prefer the chrome or black color schemes. If it were a metallic dark gray it would have been just really sweet. The chrome knobs make it easier to match a chrome lens indeed. Looks sexy with a v1 35mm Summicron mounted on it (goggled version). Didn't miss the preview lever at all. Considering getting one due to the 2 yr warranty, vs an used M9 with thousands of actuations and no warranty at all (apart from the seller's). Might tape it black...er.

a funny coincidence: the shop also had an M9P Hermès. STUNNING.
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Old 10-31-2012   #115
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The more I see the M-E the less I dislike it ; even thinking it would look great with a chrome lens.

However the more I see the big M and the big red dot on the M-240 the less I like it.
Once I've blacked out the M and red dot, the front face is going to look very plain without the illumination window
You're not allowed to buy any more equipment anyway. That M9P of yours is sweet Donald.
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Old 11-01-2012   #116
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You're not allowed to buy any more equipment anyway. That M9P of yours is sweet Donald.
Thanks Kent - but it's out classing my GXR and OM-D soo much that I'm thinking I should sell them and get the M9-P a companion.


On the M-E, I think it's interesting that several dealers (popflash and ffordes) have already had ex-demo M-Es for sale.
I can only surmise that these are the result of customer returns on aesthetic grounds.
It also seems that most dealers have now completely run out of M9s and M9-Ps ( with their classic good looks )
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Old 11-01-2012   #117
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...On the M-E, I think it's interesting that several dealers (popflash and ffordes) have already had ex-demo M-Es for sale.
I can only surmise that these are the result of customer returns on aesthetic grounds....
Perhaps, and I'll guess in many cases the camera may have been unboxed and shown/demonstrated without having gone far from the store.

A few years ago I bought a new "demo" Leica from RFF sponsor PopFlash at about 10% off list, very welcome relief on such a pricy item. I couldn't tell to what extent the camera/lens had been demonstrated, and it all worked out very well.
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Old 11-01-2012   #118
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Perhaps, and I'll guess in many cases the camera may have been unboxed and shown/demonstrated without having gone far from the store.

A few years ago I bought a new "demo" Leica from RFF sponsor PopFlash at about 10% off list, very welcome relief on such a pricy item. I couldn't tell to what extent the camera/lens had been demonstrated, and it all worked out very well.
True. 'Ex-demo' may imply 'a lot of interest'.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 11-01-2012   #119
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I saw a used M-E on Popflash for $5k returned by a customer who didn't like the colour. Good deal, still had the yr warranty available!

Btw, for those who really dislike the colour.. why not just gaffer tape the top & bottom plates roughly? I will probably get an M-E instead of a black M9 due to the warranty, the price gap is not too big... then most likely add black tape to it and make a M-P Derelict
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Old 11-01-2012   #120
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I saw another one yesterday (in daylight), it still looks quite blue to my eye.
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