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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Old 09-18-2012   #81
N.delaRua
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I think the model name should have been the Hasselblad Murse. Because it looks like a Murse....
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Old 09-18-2012   #82
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I've never hated a camera in advance of actually seeing or using one. Until now.
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Old 09-18-2012   #83
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...it worries me that people conspired to design and build this thing while I slept.
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Old 09-18-2012   #84
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I'd rather get a P-45 digital back for my 500CM. It's conceivable that I could afford one used, and I hear the quality is great. And I could keep shooting with that wonderful 10 pound square brick that I'm so found of and those big chunks of Zeiss glass that I love. The new camera is, as the consensus suggests, ugly as sin. And when I think Hasselbald, I think square, 6x6, 2 1/4 x 2 1/4; and square is good.
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Old 09-18-2012   #85
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This looks like something that got run over in the supermarket carpark.

What are they thinking ... how can the people who made my wonderful 500cm even contemplate this move? Occasionally when something like this gets discussed at RFF 'someone' will like it because lets face it we're all individuals!

The universal feeling in this thread is one of disbelief and contempt ... and rightly so!


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Old 09-18-2012   #86
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I can't help it and don't want to say it because others have, and in general not liking to post negative points of view, but "WOW" this is just, well, "WOW". I can smell it from here.
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Old 09-18-2012   #87
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What's next, a Samsung NX200 pimped out and rebadged as an Alpa?
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Old 09-19-2012   #89
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British Journal of Photography

Hasselblad defends Lunar's concept and pricing


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Hasselblad unveiled Lunar yesterday, an interchangeable lens camera that is strongly reminiscent of the Sony NEX 7 and uses the Japanese firm's technology – from its sensor, to its image processor and lens mount. The launch, which coincided with Hasselblad's announcement of its strategic partnership with Sony, has since been heavily denigrated, with critics condemning Lunar's retail price of €5000, forcing Hasselblad to go on the defensive.
The defence offered fell flat IMO, boiling down to "we want to appear hip".
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Old 09-19-2012   #90
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A digital xpan would have been *so* much more interesting. So. Much. More.

You can say "lots of cameras stitch panoramas together, so no need for a new xpan" but that misses the point. Xpans are awesome enough that they still command high prices. Stitched panos aren't the same as dedicated panos. And really, there is no "going for a bigger market" rationalization when you're trying to sell a $6k NEX-7. You're going for a tiny, tiny niche already: why not go for the tiny niche that craves a digital xpan instead of guessing there's a tiny niche that wants an ugly NEX-7?
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Old 09-19-2012   #91
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Not a word about the lenses, probably an M adapter is needed

They are free to do what they want but the spin they utter is nauseating.
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Old 09-19-2012   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hteasley View Post
A digital xpan would have been *so* much more interesting. So. Much. More.

You can say "lots of cameras stitch panoramas together, so no need for a new xpan" but that misses the point. Xpans are awesome enough that they still command high prices. Stitched panos aren't the same as dedicated panos. And really, there is no "going for a bigger market" rationalization when you're trying to sell a $6k NEX-7. You're going for a tiny, tiny niche already: why not go for the tiny niche that craves a digital xpan instead of guessing there's a tiny niche that wants an ugly NEX-7?
Could not agree more... I have had the xpan since it was first released.. Name me another panoramic film camera w/ these check box..
- lightest full frame rf panaramic
- mid roll change from Pano to normal 35 fov, makes every lens dual purpose
- great set of lenses, though limited

All made by Fuji for Hasselblad. Given Fuji history in lens design and rf based cameras, it is a shame Hasselblad did not partner w/ Fuji again... There are only two Japanese companies that still has the technical expertise around to go into a digital rf market, Cosina and Fuji.. Not sure if the others still have any around (most likely retired by now)..

Gary

Last edited by GaryLH : 09-19-2012 at 12:51. Reason: Typo fix
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Old 09-19-2012   #93
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It isn't as bad as it looks in photos in person.... but really, it's an NEX-7. No functional differences between the two cameras--even the firmware is the same.
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Old 09-19-2012   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfisher View Post
It isn't as bad as it looks in photos in person.... but really, it's an NEX-7. No functional differences between the two cameras--even the firmware is the same.
Lol -

Are they going to releases better lenses for it or rebadge Sony Nex lenses?

Gary
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Old 09-19-2012   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Lol -

Are they going to releases better lenses for it or rebadge Sony Nex lenses?

Gary
Leica gets away with it with Panasonic. It's probably all Sony, and they are just licensing the Hasselblad name to create a "luxury" brand.
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Old 09-19-2012   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Lol -

Are they going to releases better lenses for it or rebadge Sony Nex lenses?

Gary
The lenses they had on display were just straight Sony—apparently the 18-55mm is the kit lens. It's the silver version, not the black that ships with the NEX-7.
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Old 09-19-2012   #97
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Originally Posted by jpfisher View Post
The lenses they had on display were just straight Sony—apparently the 18-55mm is the kit lens. It's the silver version, not the black that ships with the NEX-7.
Thanks for update...

So sad, same stupid UI, not even the better lenses.. Basicallly what Leica has been doing w/ Panasonic.

Gary
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Old 09-19-2012   #98
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Good god. This a classic case of too much money meeting bad taste. Whoah that is one ugly puppy. Why on earth would anyone pay good money to get something that repulsive. When i saw the picture posted by Keith, honest to god i thought someone who had never seen a camera had baked a cake that was supposed to look like a camera. Hope it tastes better than it looks.
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Old 09-19-2012   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop View Post

Leica gets away with it with Panasonic.
Yes, but the price difference there is modest in comparison.

I don't think Hasselblad will get away with it. Firstly, Hasselblad is not nearly as much of a household name as Leica. It's only well known amongst people who have an interest in cameras. And those people will not buy a re-badged Sony at such a premium.
Secondly, while there may be some people with more money than sense, they still don't like to be played a fool.

My prediction is this: This new strategy will turn into a marketing disaster, nobody will buy the new cameras and the whole thing will alienate the professional medium format clients. At some point Ventizz will try to sell the company again as they will see that it is losing money.
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Old 09-19-2012   #100
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I understand, to a point, what they're trying to do. They point out other manufacturers do similar things, like Leica, but they contend that's just a re-paint and not a "different product" like they're offering.

I can see some wild aesthetics being attractive to some, I can even see myself thinking a radical design would be kind of neat. What Hasselblad isn't understanding, I believe, is that the 6 times the price for the EXACT same performance, regardless of packaging, will lead to ridicule from almost any photo enthusiast. They have gone the re-branding road before, think X-Pan, but the X-Pan didn't cost 6 times as much as the differently badged Fuji offering.

I think the niche they're going after is wafer thin. The same people who buy the diamond encrusted iPhones for thousands of bucks. And to be clear, if someone wants to spend that, I have no problem with it. I do think creating a radical looking camera that is merely just a shell over a rather affordable camera is eliminating a very large potential audience.

They could have made the exact same design, with SOME performance differentiation (even custom software with expanded features) and priced it at Double the Nex 7 and there would have been more people biting.

Too bad. I like the idea of breaking the aesthetic mold, being a bit of a design whore myself. This is just too far out in the price category to be taken really seriously and to appeal to the younger audience they're trying to attract.
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Old 09-19-2012   #101
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Luminous landscape has a really spicy coverage of this camera with three commentators ripping it apart from a different direction - funny too. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...2012.shtml#has and scroll up for the rest.
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Old 09-19-2012   #102
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Surely when a company goes down this route they do some market testing to gauge response ... what market were they thinking of I wonder?

Like kdemas said ^ there are people out there who will buy diamond encrusted iPhones so taste and money are obviously strange bedfellows ... and always have been in my book.
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Old 09-19-2012   #103
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In the case of the xpan, I don't think Fuji would have made this camera if Hasselbad had not wanted this built... But I may well be wrong..

I had always assumed that Fuji built this camera for Hasselblad in the same way CL was built for Leica, with the same type of deal where Fuji could eventually sell it with their own name...

Gary
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Old 09-19-2012   #104
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I wonder if it is "better" than my vintage SWC?
Will the body be made of plastic?
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Old 09-19-2012   #105
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the point is that a camera company neednt have been involved in this at all! hassy could have been replaced in this equation by say porsche or coco channel or hammecher schlemmer for gods sake! they brought absolutely nothing in terms of their field of expertise to the table, and are charging $6500 for the effort. thats where the complaint lies.

and further, a first class niche player like hassy picking the most pedestrian consumer company with which to form an ongoing 'partnership' is like a never ending black eye...next up leica/samsung brings you the $10,000 galaxy 12 cam/phone!
tony
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Old 09-19-2012   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
the point is that a camera company neednt have been involved in this at all! hassy could have been replaced in this equation by say porsche or coco channel or hammecher schlemmer for gods sake! they brought absolutely nothing in terms of their field of expertise to the table, and are charging $6500 for the effort. thats where the complaint lies.

and further, a first class niche player like hassy picking the most pedestrian consumer company with which to form an ongoing 'partnership' is like a never ending black eye...next up leica/samsung brings you the $10,000 galaxy 12 cam/phone!
tony
In my mind, the guys at luminous landscape are right... This is more of a statement from the new owners of Hasselblad.. --> private equity fund Ventizz Capital.. Very sad

Gary
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Old 09-19-2012   #107
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The most expensive hand-grip in the history of photography.
The name well chosen. Only a user, a "Lunatic" would use a "Lunar".
In spite of the features, i'll pass...
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Old 09-19-2012   #108
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I keep hoping that this is all an elaborate joke, that at some point they'll peel of the vulgar (and rather shoddy looking ) facades and underneath will be a high quality minimalistic camera, or else they'll release the ultimate pro studio camera (my limited experience with the H3D was not too great) with a MF sony CMOS sensor.
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Old 09-19-2012   #109
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May be the biggest let-down in camera history, but still, it's just a camera. Gotta have some ugly ones in history too.
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Old 09-19-2012   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohan View Post
I keep hoping that this is all an elaborate joke, that at some point they'll peel of the vulgar (and rather shoddy looking ) facades and underneath will be a high quality minimalistic camera, or else they'll release the ultimate pro studio camera (my limited experience with the H3D was not too great) with a MF sony CMOS sensor.
I must admit, my reflex when I saw this thing was to check the calendar to see if it was April 1.
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Old 09-19-2012   #111
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http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012...rentals-looney
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Old 09-19-2012   #112
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The fake gold Leica Zorkis just got a whole new significance.
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Old 09-19-2012   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstops View Post
Luminous landscape has a really spicy coverage of this camera with three commentators ripping it apart from a different direction - funny too. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...2012.shtml#has and scroll up for the rest.
from Luminous Landscape:

Quote:
...if you have more money than brains, but not enough money for a real H-camera, you can now pay five grand for a Sony that, if you close your eyes, imagine real hard, and click your heels together three times, will make you feel like you own a Hasselblad.


Quote:
Personally, as a less expensive and more culturally authentic experience, I suggest the following:

1 . Open the internet
2. Go to: www.ebay.com
3. Type: “Hasselblad 500 c/m” into the search window
4. Buy one.
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Old 09-19-2012   #114
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Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
In the case of the xpan, I don't think Fuji would have made this camera if Hasselbad had not wanted this built... But I may well be wrong..

I had always assumed that Fuji built this camera for Hasselblad in the same way CL was built for Leica, with the same type of deal where Fuji could eventually sell it with their own name...
Considering that Hasselblad lost all their mojo with the decease of Victor Hasselblad (their development stalled for good after the 2000FC), I think it is rather optimistic to believe that Hasselblad had input into the engineering - at the very best, their product management was involved in the feature list and body design.
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Old 09-19-2012   #115
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Originally Posted by fstops View Post
Luminous landscape has a really spicy coverage of this camera with three commentators ripping it apart from a different direction - funny too.
Michael Reichmann's snottiness would be more effective if he learned how to spell. "nuvea riche"?
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Old 09-19-2012   #116
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Originally Posted by sevo View Post
Considering that Hasselblad lost all their mojo with the decease of Victor Hasselblad (their development stalled for good after the 2000FC), I think it is rather optimistic to believe that Hasselblad had input into the engineering - at the very best, their product management was involved in the feature list and body design.
That maybe true.. But I would hope that there were marketing or product line managers that were associated with him that we're part of the final decision otherwise I think it is even sadder still

Too me this did not seem to be the type of camera that Fuji would build w/o a request from someone.

Gary
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Old 09-20-2012   #117
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Too me this did not seem to be the type of camera that Fuji would build w/o a request from someone.
There are things that aren't entirely Fuji about it, but they are even less Hasselblad. I suspect the Xpan as well as the related Contax G1/G2 and Hexar AF and RF to have considerable amounts of input from some joint Japanese "future camera" design study - there are too many conceptual similarities in these cameras, which do not even originate within the same Keiretsu.
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Old 09-20-2012   #118
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Quote:
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Michael Reichmann's snottiness would be more effective if he learned how to spell. "nuvea riche"?
Maybe means rich people that use some kind of new skin care product.
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Old 09-20-2012   #119
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This camera actually makes me angry. So angry that I want to dispose of my H4, and shun my 203FE and X-Pan2 to the back of the closet. (I'm only joking about the last two, but you know).

Say what you want about Leica, but apart from the consumer point and shoots (which, by the way, are ~30% more than their Panasonic siblings and come with bundled software, not - gasp - 500% more), they take a very clear, very specific brief and produce unique camera systems that reflect a very niche market's wet dream. Even the X2 is a slightly askew fully in-house interpretation of the pocket camera with few real direct rivals.

This Lunar is like Nokia's Vertu and Aston Martin's Cygnet fiascos - an admittedly good product (Nokia and Toyota respectively) dressed in new clothes with no discernible benefits at an extortionate price. At least the rebranded Fujis are/were esoteric and different from their contemporaries. (X-Pan? H1?) The problem for the company with this new range is that unless you offer something functionally different, at some point, even the most foolish customers wise-up and at that point, the company's reputation is already damaged. Potentially irreversibly so. The examples are legion: Ford/Mercury/Lincoln (Chevy/Buick/Cadillac), Kyocera/Contax, early-2000s Panasonic/Leica... the list goes on and on.

If this is the new owner's plan, Hasselblad is dead. Long live Leica, for it demonstrates what a small company can do. If I can afford it, I'll ditch my all my Hx gear and move to the S-system. As of now, it seems to have a far brighter future.
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Old 09-20-2012   #120
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Well, now their PR department has kicked in and they're on the defensive:
http://www.bjp-online.com/british-jo...h-lunar-camera

According to the statements, taking the innards of a Sony off-the-shelf camera and putting an expensively machined luxury body around it makes it no longer a Sony, but a Hasselblad camera, because the hardware is just a small part of the whole. Oh well.
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