Old 09-21-2012   #81
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Well, i know people are intrigued with the Monochrom but I won't be posting any more pics on this thread cause to be honest I'm tired of things being picked on. If people don't like high contrast, then go email Magnum about the way their photographers process their images, and post the response here.

I know film users will compare but remember one thing. Film is NOT the best way of recording a scene. It's one way and has it's issues too. The Monochrom is not designed to replace film - digital was, so use it or don't, but the comparing needs to stop. Digital will never look like film because it's not meant to.

I shoot to enjoy the art and life of photography, and share because I like contributing, but kind of over all the technical talk.
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Old 09-21-2012   #82
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That last one just posted Kristian is Wonderful !

Even though I think the Monochrom has a very
'Stylized' look, there is Quite alot of Room
For Subtle to Overt Edgy Contrast which is Quite Cooool

Very Nice Indeed...!!!!

The only flaw I see in the MM
Is it's occasional 'flatness'
Missing the subtle flickerings of Light thru out
(which film Excels at) but then Again What Isn't Flawed
Film too has Imperfections
Sometimes its the Beauty i find in Imperfection.. Be it in Digi or film

I'm waiting to see the less is more version of the M- E
Before jumping on any fence and possibly buying...
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Old 09-21-2012   #83
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you have a good eye, helen ...
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Old 09-21-2012   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
Well, i know people are intrigued with the Monochrom but I won't be posting any more pics on this thread cause to be honest I'm tired of things being picked on. If people don't like high contrast, then go email Magnum about the way their photographers process their images, and post the response here.

I know film users will compare but remember one thing. Film is NOT the best way of recording a scene. It's one way and has it's issues too. The Monochrom is not designed to replace film - digital was, so use it or don't, but the comparing needs to stop. Digital will never look like film because it's not meant to.

I shoot to enjoy the art and life of photography, and share because I like contributing, but kind of over all the technical talk.
Kristian,

Thanks again for sharing. BTW the next time you come back to New York I'll show you some vintage Bruce Davidson I acquired, via some trading, that have the Magnum stamp on the back. I know exactly what you are talking about.

Also know as a one time analog B&W only shooter, I look upon as film as film and digital as digital. It is what it is.

Cal
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Old 09-21-2012   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
Well, i know people are intrigued with the Monochrom but I won't be posting any more pics on this thread cause to be honest I'm tired of things being picked on. If people don't like high contrast, then go email Magnum about the way their photographers process their images, and post the response here.

I know film users will compare but remember one thing. Film is NOT the best way of recording a scene. It's one way and has it's issues too. The Monochrom is not designed to replace film - digital was, so use it or don't, but the comparing needs to stop. Digital will never look like film because it's not meant to.

I shoot to enjoy the art and life of photography, and share because I like contributing, but kind of over all the technical talk.
i for one wish you would reconsider, i enjoy your work and love popping on here to see what you have posted. I like your view and the way your put your own spin on what you saw and recorded, it may be different than what others prefer but that is why we are all here, to see how others see things. either way, i have enjoyed your posts!
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Old 09-21-2012   #86
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I wouldn't take it too personally, Kristian. People aren't attacking you, just expressing their preferences. It is interesting to see the comparison between the "straight" out of camera and the post processed one. It gives an indication as to what is possible with this camera. I personally have a preference for less contrast than you added but like many things, including photography, that's purely subjective. There is no right or wrong, just what each of us like.
I can't help but make comparisons with film because that's what I've always shot through the 80's, 90's up until the present day and I'm sure there are a huge amount of us here of a similar age and above that do the same. I'm a late adopter to Digital, if you like, but now see both mediums now as relevant as each other with, perhaps still I slight bias towards film.
I do like what I see from this camera and that has been all the more enhanced by seeing your work with it in this thread so I hope you can continue to post, along with the other members here with Monochrom cameras.
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Old 09-21-2012   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolzakukumba View Post
Quite a few of these pics have been given too much exposure to the structure filter in Efex. The guy in this one looks like a CGI character. I can only assume that many users of the new Leica aren't particularly interested in an authentic film look. Nothing wrong with that: I suppose it's a matter of taste.
Or you can just look at it as just one users style of post processing.

What sucks about these types of threads is that people always expect straight from the camera so they can geek out and pixel peep. Well, that's not how a camera is generally used unless you are too lazy to PP.
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Old 09-21-2012   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
I won't be posting any more pics on this thread cause to be honest I'm tired of things being picked on.
Please reconsider. If you stop posting photos that would be a loss to the forum.
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Old 09-21-2012   #89
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Think of your critics as, in the words of Billy Shakespeare, "small dogs nipping as a greatman's heels."
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Old 09-21-2012   #90
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Oh it was highlight recovery. I see. Anyways, still a nice photo.

By the way, I wasn't really 'picking' on it, I was just curious if it was something in the scene, something in the camera, or something in the processing.
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Old 09-21-2012   #91
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It's too bad that so much criticism arrives in threads that are not open too such. I'm loving this thread and all the work in it. A best if thread is about images not "preferences"!
Leicashot I hope you reconsider and will continue to post here. If not I will continue to enjoy your work on Flickr. Thank you for sharing your work
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Old 09-21-2012   #92
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yeah, what andy said ...
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Old 09-21-2012   #93
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oh Hey Kristian
me thinks You are being Silly... and certainly You are far more thick skinned than You are letting on

I can't believe You of All People would be Bothered by a few Comments not in agreement with yours. I mean that is the possibility one throws oneself into when Posting on a Public Forum.
I do think the Majority in this Thread Support your Work done with the MM

I remember when You once lambasted me about my 75 lux shots & maybe even other things ... I still held my head up high and kept posting and when we finally met we laughed about it & are friends

So as 'JJ' said "please reconsider"

Bottom Line: the Most Important thing is that You Enjoy the Use and Results from the M-M and your Paying Clients are Happy too
Its seems you are on the Right Road for what YOU Want to Achieve
Best- H
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Old 09-21-2012   #94
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The resolution is incredible, but for the rest it is not my cup of tea. Particularly, when human skin looks like a chewing gum after spitting.
I prefere my monochrome cameras, and a human skin that looks like this:


20125019 by mfogiel, on Flickr
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Old 09-21-2012   #95
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Ouch Marek... "chewing gum after spitting"...

Your portrait Portrays a very Pretty Back on a very Pretty Lady...Beautifully Exposed

The Man in Kristian's last photo is Old, Aged & Worn probably though a Life Time of Hard Labor...Yes its Exaggerated
but I think that's the Beauty it Portrays in its Edginess, Grit & Atmosphere

Both Your Shot & Kristian's Deserve to be Praised but for Different reasons

Cheers & Best- H
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Old 09-21-2012   #96
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Wow some serious results of self harming on that girl's forearm! (I'm not talking about the tattoo just for confirmation)
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Old 09-21-2012   #97
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when did a thread like this become a talent referendum? this is about what this unique camera is capable of, not what one 'likes' or doesnt. personal preferences are not relevent here. you dont like how an image is processed, then dont process it like that. but keep irrelevent opinions out of it. an opinion on the cameras output, fair game. youre particular processing preferences, keep 'em to yourself. i'm certainly not interested in them in this kind of thread, and i,m sure i'm not alone. know when criticism, and what kind of criticism, is appropriate. its not that difficult. and if your innapropriate comments chase a talented person from this thread, shame on you!
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Old 09-21-2012   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
It's too bad that so much criticism arrives in threads that are not open too such. I'm loving this thread and all the work in it. A best if thread is about images not "preferences"!
Leicashot I hope you reconsider and will continue to post here. If not I will continue to enjoy your work on Flickr. Thank you for sharing your work
It wasn't criticism as i saw it. Kristian posted a "before and after"(two versions/interpretations ) of the same image and a number of people said they liked the "before" more than the "after" That was all. Kristian's preference is the "after" Everyone is entitled to share their point of view, I think. All photographs in the thread are the posters' interpretations of their DNG's and that is their prerogative. Some choose more contrast or whatever when post processing and that's partly what makes this thread and B&W photography in general interesting. We are all individuals! (I'm not! )

It's interesting to assess the pictures in this thread but we can't really assess the full potential of the Monochrom from web shots. All we can do is appreciate the compositions and ways the photographers have interpreted their work. But we can still say whether we like it or not, surely?

To paraphrase Helen. If we can't take it , don't put our work on the internet. I'd rather people gave me constructive criticism of my work than massage my ego with a pat on the back every time I post a picture. I will learn more about my work and how to improve it that way.

The whole forum is about discussion, debate, opinion and viewpoint. Some people have stated they like certain pictures in the thread more than other's. That's a preference too. Are you saying they shouldn't be doing that?

Personal insults we sometimes get here on this forum... well that's another matter all together.
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Old 09-21-2012   #99
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when did a thread like this become a talent referendum? this is about what this unique camera is capable of, not what one 'likes' or doesnt. personal preferences are not relevent here. you dont like how an image is processed, then dont process it like that. but keep irrelevent opinions out of it. an opinion on the cameras output, fair game. youre particular processing preferences, keep 'em to yourself. i'm certainly not interested in them in this kind of thread, and i,m sure i'm not alone. know ehen criticism, and what kind of criticism, is appropriate. its not that difficult. and if your innapropriate comments chase a talented person from this thread, shame on you!
tony
How are you assessing the camera's output from a post processed file in the style chosen by each photographer that has posted?

I don't think anyone is trying to "chase" Kristian away any more than any other member on the forum. Each member has the same right to be on the forum, whatever their perceived talents.

I think a few people saying they liked one version of a picture more than another is getting blown out of all proportion now. It was hardly a witch hunt
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Old 09-21-2012   #100
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How are you assessing the camera's output from a post processed file in the style chosen by each photographer that has posted?

I don't think anyone is trying to "chase" Kristian away any more than any other member on the forum. Each member has the same right to be on the forum, whatever their perceived talents.

I think a few people saying they liked one version of a picture more than another is getting blown out of all proportion now. It was hardly a witch hunt

i think it is easy to assess the cameras output regardless of individual PP because there are many different contributors who choose to PP differently or not at all. each is a unique datapoint from which conclusions can be drawn. you determine output by assessing numerous different input, like we assess everything else in life. this is not a C&C thread, its a camera output thread. you dont like one persons output, fine, move on to the next guy. hopefully he PPs more to your liking, or doesnt PP if thats what you like. it is best for ALL of us to get as many different types of output as possible. further, my admittedly rudimentary understanding of this cams RAW output is that PP is in fact a necessity to bring out the best it has to offer. thus the more diverse datapoints the better.

what the 'offensive' 'overcontrasted' picture tells me is the level to which this cameras output accomodates pretty large contrast increases. other cameras would handle that differently. whether you like it or not does not detract from its value as an informational datapoint. take it for what its worth, swallow your subjective artistic comments, and move on. there are other threads where artistic differences are welcomed. as yogi berra probably said 'this aint that'.
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Old 09-21-2012   #101
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Ok, so maybe I wasn't having the best day and overreacted

I know people want to see who the MM pictures look and my editing almost takes away from the out of camera experience, which defeats the purpose of MM examination for many. But I'm posting pictures based on my style and desired look of b+w in the way I liked my Tri-X when I shot film.

So....I apologise for my self-pity as it was probably that time of the month...or week

Last edited by Doug : 03-01-2013 at 18:17. Reason: Pics all set to "private" on Flickr
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Old 09-21-2012   #102
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Thanks for sharing all these photos Kristian. Regardless of PP preferences, these are great shots. Excellent composition, light, and subjects. Even if I could buy a MM, I doubt I could match what you're doing. I still want one though.
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Old 09-21-2012   #103
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Wow, that was a close one - this thread almost derailed.

Thanks for sharing more Kristian!
Who wants flat test images, to inspect, should move over to the usual internet sources.

I want to see photographs - love this thread!
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Old 09-21-2012   #104
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The big story of 2012 for Leica in the long run will have been the MM.
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Old 09-21-2012   #105
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Glad to have you back. I'm digging the processing.
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Old 09-21-2012   #106
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I am not overly critical of what I see form this camera. As stated before, the resolution is fantastic, and there is also an evident improvement in tonality over the M9 images, However, in my perception, this is a rather particular way of making B&W photos, and it reminds me of an error I made once, when I took portraits of my female friend on AGFA SCALA with Zeiss Planar set to f 4.0. Beyond the exaggerated sharpness and unbelievable micro contrast however, on SCALA, the tonality was more natural, and there was no problem with the highlight rendering, which is still present with the Monochrome. To sum up, these photos look like made with an uber sharp lens on a repro film, with the obvious limitation to render strong highlights. I would be curious to know if a Monochrome Tri X version will ever come out...
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Old 09-22-2012   #107
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Kristian,

It's obvious you have a good eye and I appreciate your efforts to contribute to this forum. However I believe if you pay a little more attention to your processing then your contribution to us to appreciate the merits of the Monochrome would be better. (Hopefully you would not feel offended.)

First off, your pictures are overly contrasty, consequently limited in tonal range; the gradation seems shifted to make the mid-gray-to-black region dominate the tonality. Further to enhance the capability of your sensor you pull the sharpness slider too far to the right; most details seem rather "bitter", not pleasantly smooth-but-sharp as the Leica B&W was known to excel.

Bear in mind that you are dealing with an 11-stop sensor; the DR is limited compared to the top CMOS sensors. So "employ" your DR carefully, meticulously; do not "overdrive", do not "push" the tones. Please, (you certainly must for you love darker tones) study the tonality range of Yousuf Karsh portraits... Darker tones yet still generous presentation all other grays up to pure white highlights.. This is the mastery in B&W.. IMHO, with a more careful processing you would do more "justice" to your Monochrome.

Below is a collage of crops of your portraits. Note how they are depicted through your processing; as if the faces were spray painted with metallic graphite-gray and then polished with vaseline. Are the far-eastern skin colors that exaggerated?

Looking forward to seeing more pictures from you.

(moderator removed unsolicited crops of another member's work)

Last edited by photomoof : 09-22-2012 at 12:43. Reason: removed crops
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Old 09-22-2012   #108
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Thanks BobYIL. It's not so much you misspelling Kristian's name, it's more that we already know that this advice of yours is not welcome to him. I am not sure you will be seeing more of his pictures. And Marek, you might have just held off too.
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Old 09-22-2012   #109
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Thank you for the HU, corrected.
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Old 09-22-2012   #110
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I no longer shoot digital and only looked in at this thread to see if the new
Leica was anything special. I'm sorry for being critical of some "over-structured" photos, wrongly, as it turned out, thinking the authors were inviting some comment. I'll bow out now but I'd just like to say to whoever was equating the "structure filter" look to Tri X that there is no valid comparison to be made. There is no way of using any film to replicate the look of the structure filter or vice versa. Digital is digital and film is film and amen to that!
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Old 09-22-2012   #111
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When did this turn into a critique thread? The OP invited people to post their best MM shots, and has stated that he's not looking for critique. If people don't like what they see, why not just move on? Kristian's preferred "look" is just that - his preference. Does anyone doubt that his RAW files could be processed to give a wide range of "looks", from soft low contrast through to sharp high contrast?

Could the critics please just hold off, and perhaps the other MM users will share a few more pics to show what the MM can do in other hands? Thanks.
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Old 09-22-2012   #112
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The title says " Leica M Monochrom: best pics"... What's wrong for suggesting a couple of things to make the pictures look better, to exhibit the Monochromes capabilities better?

No critics about his way of seeing, just the contrary I praised it. No critics the way he uses his camera... Just a few suggestions for post processing only with the hope to help him with the way how his results seem in some eyes.

This forum pays special attention to B&W photography, is there anything wrong for suggesting something to a capable hand to try for? We all are interested in seeing the results of some top cameras, whether we intend to buy them or not.

And the way he presented the pictures was not the optimum in my opinion and what I suggested I suggested politely; no need to feel offended...
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Old 09-22-2012   #113
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Wow some serious results of self harming on that girl's arm!
Now we're going to critique her decision of getting a tattoo?
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Old 09-22-2012   #114
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photo-fred, I am very sorry to tell you that young women cut their forearms with sharp implements as a cathartic response to psychic turmoil. That is evident in the right edge of the photo. You'll see it in restaurants and shops and on the street.
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Old 09-22-2012   #115
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I LOVE the tones and sharpness in this image, just beautiful, perhaps even perfect. Perhaps the only digital camera I'll ever try one day.
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Old 09-22-2012   #116
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Now we're going to critique her decision of getting a tattoo?
Oh my goodness!! What is this!! So much misinterpretation and misunderstanding in this thread. My friend please look at the picture carefully. No it's not a critique of the tattoo.

Look at the girls forearm she has cut it repeatedly. In the UK that is referred to as self harming. I'm not criticising. In fact when I look at that picture I'm wondering sympathetically what happened in that girl's life that led her to do that to herself. I hope that answers your question.
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Old 09-22-2012   #118
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Wow, woke up this Morning 'Happy' because Kristian pm'd me to say he would be back posting on this Thread...
then I open the thread to view
And BAM back to INSANITY again

As For Nigel's Remark, there is nothing wrong with what he posted.
he noticed in the photo the knife marks and casually remarked about them
Unfortunately someone thought he was talking about tattoos and
Nigel then had to Explain himself only to be bombasted by 'Moriturii'

Sheesh, can We ALL just please be Pleasantly Civil
Even if we Disagree

Oh yeah Kristian
I like your new set of photos...I"m diggin the edginess & 'look'
And it's obvious how You treat those street photos in Comparison to your more Subdued processing in the 'Fashion' set
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Old 09-22-2012   #119
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The Monochrom lives on. One of my frustrations with this thread is that I don't have the entry criterion to post a picture! But Kristian and Jeff and Peter and others have set the bar so high so it's just as well.

MORE PICTURES PLEASE.
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Old 09-22-2012   #120
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"The Numbers of the Dead"

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