EFKE/Fotokemika now completely gone!

[Keith]

I've just placed an order with Freestyle for 300ft of KB100 and 20 rolls of 120 and a (50) box of 4x5 sheets.

I think I have an Efke summer coming up!

I'll be interested to see if they can fill the order ... I'm hoping!

[jsrockit]

My goodness, you film guys better bank on ilford being healthy.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

My goodness, you film guys better bank on ilford being healthy.

It's you damned digital converts that have caused this problem John!

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by Keith

It's you damned digital converts that have caused this problem John!

Oops

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by Vincent.G

I feel the same way too, Keith. I may stop shooting film when all existing Kodak and Fuji film ceases.

Fuji has ceased making B&W films already, what is for sale onwards from now is remaining stocks.

This is a Pulcinella's secret.

My only concern with Ilford films are their retail price (as explained in another thread) ; otherwise all those discussions about, say, Tri-X vs HP5+ always puzzled me, because when similarly exposed and developed in the same fluid, I can't see any difference between the two.

What I could see on Efke films were stains and scratches and emulsion drops from the factory, because of a very poor QC.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

Fuji has ceased making B&W films already, what is for sale onwards from now is remaining stocks.

Where did you hear this?

[Keith]

While I was in a paranoid buying frenzy at Freestyle I ordered another five hundred feet of Tri-X to add to the two hundred feet already in the freezer.

That's probably a months shooting for Tom A!

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto

Where did you hear this?

http://www.fujifilm.com/

This has been discussed many times here already.

Even if they still were to produce some B&W film, apart from Acros 100 I couldn't see what they would make so far, because the demise of Neopan 400, Neopan 1600, Neopan 100SS have been officially confirmed.
So, that's it. No more Fuji B&W films. This is something we ought to live with.

[teddy]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Because people who know nothing about emulsions and coating technology always assume that more silver is better, and therefore, by an omitted middle, the films they like are silver rich...

Another basic flaw in the 'silver rich' theory is that there will always come a point, for a given emulsion technology, where you have enough silver to give a good negative or print. Adding more won't improve matters.

You know this. I know this. But plenty don't.

Cheers,

R.

Well, I think you are right. I don't know much about emulsions to really tell whether silver rich is the same as any other. What I do know is that Efke 25 gives me bucket loads of tonality with minimal grain when stand developed. Is the tonality due to more silver in the emulsion? If it is, then I will go with any other film that gives me more of the same quality. Suggestions anyone?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by teddy

Well, I think you are right. I don't know much about emulsions to really tell whether silver rich is the same as any other. What I do know is that Efke 25 gives me bucket loads of tonality with minimal grain when stand developed. Is the tonality due to more silver in the emulsion? If it is, then I will go with any other film that gives me more of the same quality. Suggestions anyone?

I'm finding Acros to be a remarkable film tonality wise at the moment ... but who knows how long that will be around!

[Keith]

Originally Posted by JSU

I've already done that and now I'm wondering how much longer Arista Premium 400 will remain. For me it is Tri-X.

When I said Tri-X I was actually refering to AP400 ... the genuine Tri-X is listed at $74.00 per 100ft!

You'd have to supect that Freestyle's stocks of AP400 must be nearly gone by now.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

http://www.fujifilm.com/

This has been discussed many times here already.

Even if they still were to produce some B&W film, apart from Acros 100 I couldn't see what they would make so far, because the demise of Neopan 400, Neopan 1600, Neopan 100SS have been officially confirmed.
So, that's it. No more Fuji B&W films. This is something we ought to live with.

I've seen that website before but wonder how reliable it is...

I know the demise of Neopan 1600 and Neopan 100SS has been officially confirmed by Fujifilm Japan, but haven't seen anything about Neopan 400 in 135 size from them yet. Fujifilm will have a riot on their hands in Japan if they discontinue Neopan 400.

The most recent announcement about discontinuing B&W film I could find on the Fujifilm Japan website is dated 13 July 2012, and says that Neopan 100 SS in 135-24 is discontinued and the last batch is expected to ship in December this year (no surprises there). Fujifilm recommends using Acros in its place. The notice goes on to link to the current B&W film products here. Acros is still there, as is Neopan 400. Fujifilm will have a riot on their hands in Japan if they discontinue Neopan 400. Hmmm...

Back on topic, I have 6 rolls of Efke 50 that I purchased in Zagreb in April. I will use it carefully! I thought of visiting the factory as well while there, but didn't have quite enough time

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by sevo

I don't really know why Efke is considered silver rich - technically, Adox was a pioneer of thin coatings, and while the Adox coatings contain more silver by coating volume, they marked a considerable reduction in silver content by roll, compared to other unstructured grain film of equivalent sensitivity.

I think the reason is that people generalize from Efke's papers to Efke's films.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Coated by whom? I can think of several options, but I can't guess which might be the best bet. Any idea?

Hm, my guess is either Inoviscoat, or, as Sevo pointed out, Adox' own coating facility where they reuse Agfa gear.

[Nokton48]

I have 250 sheets of 6x9cm PL100, and 250 sheets of 6x9cm PL25 in my deep freeze. Perhaps I should order more!

[Fotohuis]

This is what you are going to miss:
Efke R25 E.I. 25 in Rodinal 1+50
C.V. Bessa III 667

[Highway 61]

Great greyscale but I still can't see why this couldn't be achieved with FP4+ or Fomapan 100.

I recently shot FP4+ in 120 and developed it in Rodinal 1+50 and the result was very nice.

And I suspect the result had been the very same had the film been developed in D76 1+1.

[Fotohuis]

If you're going to print on an enlarger you know what you're going to miss. It's an irriplacable film.
And indeed: It's very easy to reproduce nice Grey tones on Efke films.

Made yesterday along the border of the river Maas in Holland.

[KoNickon]

Very sad to see Fotokemika bite the dust, not least of all because they were the only ones still making 127. It would be great if Ilford spooled 127!

To paraphrase John Adams on his deathbed, "But Adox still lives...."

[Fotohuis]

Adox is the brand name of Fotoimpex. All their Adox CHS films are 1:1 Efke compatible and for their Ortho film depending on Fotokemika too.

Rollei discontinued their PAN 25 (v2, also Efke 25) in favor of the Retro 80S from Agfa Gevaert. About Ortho, the same problem. Also the Retro 100 TONAL ( a modified Efke 100 emulsion, made Orthopan) can not be continued.

Impex can only pack and cutting things. For coating they are 100% depending on Inoviscoat which screwed up their last attempt in Pan 400 films. If you do not have a large production experience it's very difficult to set up a new production line.

Maybe better to look at some Russian photo suppliers for Ortho film now (Slavich or Tasma).

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by teddy

Well, I think you are right. I don't know much about emulsions to really tell whether silver rich is the same as any other. What I do know is that Efke 25 gives me bucket loads of tonality with minimal grain when stand developed. Is the tonality due to more silver in the emulsion? If it is, then I will go with any other film that gives me more of the same quality. Suggestions anyone?

'Fraid not. It's SO personal. Keith loves Acros. I loathe it. I suspect this is because he had better experiences with it straight off than I did: I had to try several developers and development regimes before I found anything I could even begin to like. No doubt I could have got better results with more persistence, but after 10 rolls of Acros I decided that I preferred Delta 100 (sharper, if grainier; nicer tonality for me) and that as the Ilford material was a lot more forgiving, there was no reason to persist with Acros. And, for pure tonality at that speed, I prefer plain vanilla cubic-crystal to epitaxial and tabular anyway: Foma 200.

Neither of us is right or wrong. It's all a compromise, along with a generous dash of alchemy.

Incidentally, in identical 'normal' developers such as ID11/D76, Acros is around ISO 80 or a little faster and Fomapan 200 around ISO 125 or a little faster. Delta 100 is closer to 100.

Cheers,

R.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Fotohuis

For coating they are 100% depending on Inoviscoat which screwed up their last attempt in Pan 400 films.

While they seem to rely heavily on the expertise and staff of Inoviscoat, they own a small scale lab coater (the former Agfa R&D), located in their own premises off Berlin. The Inoviscoat machine at Monheim is huge - too huge for many more fancy products at least at the current pricing structure.

[Ezzie]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm finding Acros to be a remarkable film tonality wise at the moment ... but who knows how long that will be around!

My favouirite 100 speed film going too? I'm starting to regret getting up this morning.

[Fotohuis]

The smallest coating plant had Efke for a minimum of 6000-8000 films. At the current pricing structure they can not make enough profit to maintain their machinery. Talking about IR820, Efke 25/50, Retro 100 TONAL, Ortho 25, ATO all special films in the market.
If they can not do it with all expertise of years and with re-cycled Silver from local suppliers any new attempt to produce such films will be a failure.

The reason that Fotokemika collapsed is that Impex made for example their own roll film assy, Freestyle put the prices of Efke products too low and due to higher energy costs and Silver prices Efke could not compete anymore with the multinationals.

Special products, special prices but an Efke 25 is much cheaper then an Ilford PAN F+ film. Regular price in Holland Eur. 6,50 Efke 25 Eur. 3,75. But we all know that asking Eur. 6,50 for an Efke 25 film the demand will be at a real minimum. Maybe they forgot the marketing too.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Ezzie

My favouirite 100 speed film going too?

Nobody knows - it would be rather odd if Fujifilm abandoned film for good, given their strong domestic market. And black and white is a fairly stable market segment and has not shrunk that much from its production figures of ten or twenty years ago, compared to the huge slump colour had to take - so it should be the easiest to produce at a profit.