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Sigma DP2 merrill anyone ugraded from DP2
Old 08-28-2012   #1
d_ross
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Sigma DP2 merrill anyone ugraded from DP2

I am thinking of upgrading from my DP2 to a DP2 Merrill, and wondered if anyone here had done this, if so I'd love to know your thoughts about the new model compared to the old one.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-29-2012   #2
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I haven't seen anyone talk of buying it here. Perhaps the $999 is too steep to take a chance for this camera?
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Old 08-29-2012   #3
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i ve handled it a week ago at a store, where a rep stubled by, files are absolutely impressive, when price hits below 700 I'm buying one for sure.
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Old 08-29-2012   #4
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It has the same type of 30mm lens that I have for my NEX, which is outstanding. And it looks more compact. It should be even better on the Merrill not having an AA filter... I'm surely tempted but would have to sell something first.
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Old 08-29-2012   #5
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If ever there is Aperture support.
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Old 08-29-2012   #6
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Sensor performance and pixel detail at low iso is in and own league (probably only matched my the M9Monochrome whicht does b/w only), I've browsed some snaps he had on the camera from buildings (exported as 46 mp file 16bit TIFF file, lossless conversion from the sigma Raw file, the camera handles pretty fast now too, the latest sigma software doesn't look all that bad either.
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Old 08-29-2012   #7
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I'll let it come down in price. DP-series is like drugs - everyone asks you if you really need this, and you also are asking yourself, but still can't resist.
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Old 08-29-2012   #8
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I have sorta' -I did not have a DP2, but rather a DP1, so it was not really an "upgrade." Furthermore, I am actually quite recent to the Sigma world having just bought the DP1 a month ago. The results I saw from that are what made the jump to the DP2M the easiest photography choice I may have ever made.

The new DP2M is just about my dream camera. I have tried EVERYTHING and it is shaping up to be my Holy Grail. I have posted a few shots on site here already, one in the very folder (Point-N-Shoot) as this thread. Have a LOOK HERE and also follow my siggy out to Flickr where I have been compiling a set. Make sure to check them at the largest size available to you!

I have lots of thoughts racing through my head regarding the DP2M and have been busy on the film side of things, but I will be happy to try and answer any questions you might have and eventually offer some of my take on it as well!
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Old 08-29-2012   #9
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Jeff

I'm considering the DP2M. The appeal of that kind of image quality in a compact is pretty strong.

Two questions: what's the AF like and how slow are the write times?

Thanks

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Old 08-29-2012   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burancap View Post
I have sorta' -I did not have a DP2, but rather a DP1, so it was not really an "upgrade." Furthermore, I am actually quite recent to the Sigma world having just bought the DP1 a month ago. The results I saw from that are what made the jump to the DP2M the easiest photography choice I may have ever made.

The new DP2M is just about my dream camera. I have tried EVERYTHING and it is shaping up to be my Holy Grail. I have posted a few shots on site here already, one in the very folder (Point-N-Shoot) as this thread. Have a LOOK HERE and also follow my siggy out to Flickr where I have been compiling a set. Make sure to check them at the largest size available to you!

I have lots of thoughts racing through my head regarding the DP2M and have been busy on the film side of things, but I will be happy to try and answer any questions you might have and eventually offer some of my take on it as well!
Thanks for that, I'm not concerned with any of the file write times or slow focusing issues etc that people talk about with the DP camera's, as that doesn't effect the way I work. I was really wondering how much better the file produced large prints, I have very happily made 20x30 inch prints from the DP2, and was wondering if anyone had made larger prints from the DP2M and if so how they compared to the DP2.
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Old 08-29-2012   #11
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After a bit of reading I found it likely to be with:

- much improved controls and speed in operation
- unparalleled IQ at low ISO
- mediocre noise performance at higher ISO, a X3 tradition
- a thick body, also lacking an internal flash (known fact from the press photos)
- very short battery life, some 100-150 shots per charge

Pure speculations from other users' feedback, though. Only as credible as the Worldwide Web gets..
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Old 08-29-2012   #12
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When I shot digital, I really liked my DP1, the image quality was indeed fantastic, and if a DP2M is the same but more resolution, it'll be great. I think $999 is a bargain for a camera that has image quality similar to top end DSLRs or even medium format digital backs.
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Old 08-29-2012   #13
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I've always really liked the look of the sigma files, they are as people say more film like than other sensors, and one of the things I'm very interested to know is if this look has been maintained with the extra resolution in the DP2M?
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Old 08-29-2012   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_ross View Post
I am thinking of upgrading from my DP2 to a DP2 Merrill, and wondered if anyone here had done this, if so I'd love to know your thoughts about the new model compared to the old one.

Thanks in advance.
I've been thinking about it as well but I'm going to wait. I recently re-bought the DP2 and I can't really justify the need of another DP2.
I have been checking the images on flickr and they look really good. Steve Huff has a review of the DP2M, he makes a lot of good points.
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Old 08-29-2012   #15
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Originally Posted by clear2000 View Post
I've been thinking about it as well but I'm going to wait. I recently re-bought the DP2 and I can't really justify the need of another DP2.
I have been checking the images on flickr and they look really good. Steve Huff has a review of the DP2M, he makes a lot of good points.
Thanks I just read that review, and have ordered one.
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Old 08-30-2012   #16
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First of all, the Steve Huff review (and 90% of the comments) mirrors most of my sentiments towards the DP2M. I don't wish to rehash that but I will comment as follows regarding a few Q's in this thread ...

With regards to AF: I think it as about the same as my FW updated DP1. In high contrast, well lit scenes -it is fast enough. Outside of that it likes to hunt all over. There is a focus delimiter which I have just enabled -that reduces the AF range from 28cm<->INF to 1m<->INF. In limited practice, it seems faster -I will confirm this with some use. The bottom line is the AF is notoriously SLOW in ALL of the DP's. With that said, setting the camera to MF and prefocusing means that it fires immediately. So if you are a zone focuser -there is NOTHING to complain about here, except random misfires!

With regards to write times: Yes, again -this is a Sigma! It must have been improved though as the transfer rate is about 10-12 seconds which is on par with my DP1, but there are some variables to consider that clearly I would need to test further -specifically regarding the cards in use.

My 10-12 second write times as I use them...

1.) DP1 RAW only (~14-16MB) to a 4G CLASS4 SD
2.) DP2M RAW only (~45-55MB) to a 16G CLASS10 SD (45mb/s)

Those are some hefty files being transferred! Now, do keep in mind that the DP2M does allow continual shooting in that even while writing to the card you ARE able to make setting changes and you ARE able to take more shots. I have not had any issues running into any buffering limits, yet. In fact, there is some sort of "infinite" shooting mode that I am yet to investigate. So, I guess the question is: If you buy a fast card -is there really an issue?
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Old 08-30-2012   #17
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I just got my DP2x from repair and have been following DP2m progress among other forums, and I feel I will get one once the price lowers a bit (inevitable). I feel the Foveon is like others have said, a drug and i'm almost happy in that way it's not so damn popular.

I do notice write times on my DP2x to be considerably faster than the DP1 I had using the same card, (95mb/sec Sandisk Extreme Pro) I highly suggest getting one if you haven't already, it may make the DP2m files write smoother! Can't wait to read more of your thoughts on it.

How about lens extention/contraction, i'm under the impression it doesn't get longer anymore—which is nice (considering my DP2x went in for repair due to lens extension/sensors getting dust).
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Old 08-30-2012   #18
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Quote:
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How about lens extention/contraction, i'm under the impression it doesn't get longer anymore—which is nice (considering my DP2x went in for repair due to lens extension/sensors getting dust).
That is correct. The lens is fixed. This would preclude the drive failure issues from the earlier models. One would think that would make it more "pocketable" but the increased overall size doesn't help that, not to mention that use of a hood on ANY DP makes easy pocketing impossible.

Regarding overall size related to bodies that folks may be familiar with:

Leica I/II/II: Close
Leica M dig: About ~80% smaller in all dims
Leica M film: About " except depth (close).
Leica X1/2: Very close if not identical -the "squaring up" makes it seem bigger
Nikon Ti's: Close
Olympus OM 1/2: Very close -a bit shorter and narrower
Sony NEx5n: Bigger in every dimension, excepting depth depending on the Nex lens

It has the same, perhaps even better quality of fit/finish as the previous models. It feels very nice and solid, though relatively light. I don't care for the new lens offset. It would have been nice if centered rather than the opposite direction they headed. It is MUCH simpler in every facet as far as buttons/protrusions, etc... very teutonic, dare I say ... Leica like. In fact, it may be moreso than all Leica digitals excepting the Ms themselves! I would say that overall, its closest peer from an overall user experience would be the Leica X1, not the X2 with its new EVF option. That would have been a nice addition to the Merrill, IMHO. Oh, and they dropped the inbuilt flash, but the shoe is still hot, FWIW.
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Not ready to buy Yet
Old 08-30-2012   #19
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Not ready to buy Yet

Looking at the dpreview forum I read that there have ben some complaints with battery life, focusing speed, Strange Banding in the sky or lighter parts of an image and a strange thing that can happen to the skin tones in shadow. Many are blaming quality control. Some have found workarounds to these problems .Not to mention that it is known to be high quality only at low ISO's.

Resolution looks great.

I will wait for word that these issues have been resolved and a good price drop.

I like that the camera is very small. I can put the dp2x in a medium sized pocket with a litttle effort.
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Old 08-30-2012   #20
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Quote:
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I like that the camera is very small. I can put the dp2x in a medium sized pocket with a litttle effort.
The Merrill is BIGGER in every dimension than its predecessors. What "just fit" is no more, but I never really considered the DPs as "pocket" cameras and the new Merrill stops that thought in its tracks.
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Old 08-30-2012   #21
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Battery life? HA!

Without question, my biggest gripe so far! Surely this is why Sigma includes not one, but two batteries! Frankly, two is not enough. I think that the 100-200 shots/battery being claimed elsewhere would be fantastic. I am getting maybe 50!!!

Batteries (and any Merrill specific accessories) are hard to come by. It would seem some early adopters are going the eBay/overseas route. If they are available direct from Sigma via their website -well, that is news to me. The good news is that the battery is apparently the equivalent of the Ricoh GRD IV which is available. I have bought some battery holsters and plan on filling them up!
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Old 08-30-2012   #22
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Battery life? HA!

I am getting maybe 50!!!
Wow, manufactuers just keep seeing how low they can go and still get our cash.
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Old 08-30-2012   #23
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Wow, manufactuers just keep seeing how low they can go and still get our cash.
I don't know what is going on! Heavy file transfer in this case, I suppose??? Regarding other manufacturers -you may well be right as batteries keep getting worse and worse!

Back in the day, I bought a Nikon D50 and it came with two batteries. Even after all of these years and use/abuse -I often forget the thing even has a battery! Excellent!

In the short time I have had the DP2M -I forgot the second battery ONCE. It will not happen again. My purchased holsters will be going bandolier style on a new strap (the stock one is awful)!
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Old 08-30-2012   #24
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Not a bad thing, people used to 500 shots per charge will not bid on Merril DP's. Question, if bargain lovers will still be OK with 50 shots - if only that's not issue of new battery while being broken into.
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Old 08-30-2012   #25
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I have no idea how many shots I get from my DP2 battery now, and am not concerned with this when the DP2M arrives. I think DP camera's are for a specific type of person, myself included. I like them because the result is film like with extremely good detail etc. if you want speed, and want to take 5000 pictures a day, then you would be a fool to buy any DP camera, but if you think and work slowly, in the tradition of film, and your not trying to be Garry Winogrand, I can't think of a better camera!
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Old 08-30-2012   #26
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Well, 50 shots per charge seems to be extreme.

To me, part of the "film like" experience is never to worry about batteries. Even on a long trip one may need only a pair of button cells to roll for months...now you have to carry half a dozen small Li-on bricks during a day's walk.

Wonder if this could be fixed via firmware.
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Old 08-30-2012   #27
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Quote:
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Well, 50 shots per charge seems to be extreme.

To me, part of the "film like" experience is never to worry about batteries. Even on a long trip one may need only a pair of button cells to roll for months...now you have to carry half a dozen small Li-on bricks during a day's walk.

Wonder if this could be fixed via firmware.
I don't think it's near that bad, I have two batteries with my current DP2, I have them both charged and in a day out working I have never run out of battery power. Seriously if you were using film on a day out how many rolls would one usually shoot?

There are issues with the camera's for certain types of users, but if you fit the type of user the camera is designed for, and your prime concern is a quality image, then is changing a battery really that big a deal? would anyone actually take a lesser image quality for extended battery power?
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Old 08-31-2012   #28
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Folks, I have a crushing, debilitating hangover or I would comment further. Here is my best shot ...

It is the internet and you both are absolutely correct! My comment of "maybe 50" was just that ... a comment! I will try and flex the camera further this weekend and get some more specific data regarding battery performance.

In the meantime...

1.) Should the battery performance be better? Absolutely!

2.) Is it the closest thing to film in the digital world? Closest yet, IMHO. This is 120 slide film with no funny smells!

3). Is that accomplished in an incredibly small -though perhaps not pocketable format? Yes!

We are dealing with transferring 45-55MB files + a "live view" screen of fairly decent resolution -all this from a rather tiny battery. Excuse? Maybe not, but this camera is in a league of one in so many regards that this is important to note.
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Old 08-31-2012   #29
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I have 4 batteries with my DP2x, haven't ever needed to change them though in a day of shooting yet.

I'm intrigued by the DP2m still and always considering just biting the bullet.. the screen is much better?
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Old 08-31-2012   #30
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Folks, I have a crushing, debilitating hangover or I would comment further. Here is my best shot ...

It is the internet and you both are absolutely correct! My comment of "maybe 50" was just that ... a comment! I will try and flex the camera further this weekend and get some more specific data regarding battery performance.

In the meantime...

1.) Should the battery performance be better? Absolutely!

2.) Is it the closest thing to film in the digital world? Closest yet, IMHO. This is 120 slide film with no funny smells!

3). Is that accomplished in an incredibly small -though perhaps not pocketable format? Yes!

We are dealing with transferring 45-55MB files + a "live view" screen of fairly decent resolution -all this from a rather tiny battery. Excuse? Maybe not, but this camera is in a league of one in so many regards that this is important to note.
stangely 50 shots would suit me fine :-) I rarely shoot more in a day anyway, thanks for your input here. It helped me decide to get one. Cheers
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Old 09-01-2012   #31
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decent images here.... http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP1Merrill/jp/samplephoto.html
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Old 09-02-2012   #32
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the screen is much better?
Well, yes. It is much bigger and I would say a better resolution. That may be played up a bit for me with the longer lens than my DP1.

Regardless, it is still a live view and dies in strong light. I have never used a "barn door" style hood on the back, yet. I may try a VF as well. The simple reality is that an optional plugin EVF (think Nex-5n) with this major redesign certainly would have been welcome, IMHO.
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Old 09-06-2012   #33
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This review from The Luminous Landscape may push a few people off the fence regarding buying this camera....

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...m_review.shtml
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Old 09-06-2012   #34
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A friend bought one of these over the weekend, and while he understandably won't lend it to me properly yet, we swapped our new cameras (I bought an RX100 recently) for an hour or so when we met earlier this week.

I've never owned a DP series camera, so no comparisons to be made there.

My initial impression was that this was definitely not the camera for me.
It felt like a step backwards in terms of things I had come to expect from high end digital cameras in general, namely speed of operation and low light performance. The RX100 has all of these things in *****s. (why is s-pade censored?)
I had no idea why anyone would spend $1000 on one of these.

The photos looked pretty average on the LCD too, but when I got home I was -immensely- impressed at the resolution the camera is capable of. All of the sudden the camera didn't feel like a joke. Most of my shots were botched by motion blur, though, since I admittedly wasn't taking it very seriously and it was getting dark at the time.

I still wouldn't buy one at the current asking price, but as others have mentioned this is a very specialised tool with a very specific target audience. I must admit it seems a bit odd though, since I think if I did actually get this little camera I would feel inclined to put it on a steady tripod to get the most out of it.

Less seriously, it's about the most film like camera I've handled in recent years, and it's not just the look of the files.
Batteries are a lot more like rolls of film than memory cards: with recent SD card sizes going up to 128gb, you can forget about carrying spares (well, perhaps one, just in case) and having to them swap mid-day.
But instead of having to change films every several dozen shots you have to change batteries instead

And when you run out, you're done for the day. No going back and deleting photos to squeeze out some more space. On the plus side, unlike rolls of film at least you can recharge them in your hotel room

Just my two cents.

Oh, and the battery died shortly after I handed the camera back - that foveon sensor must need some serious juice.

Edit: Forgot to mention I hate the ergonomics. A personal thing really, but I wish this camera was made by Ricoh/Pentax. Same goes for the RX100. There's just too much emphasis on making it look nice and clean, sacrificing grips and controls in the process.
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Old 09-07-2012   #35
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I respect Sigma and the Foveon sensor as it was their DP2 that brought me back into photography.

If they sorted out these issues, I'd be happy to make another Sigma purchase.
1. The interface is clunky(before the upgrade with white lettering to help).
2. I manually focus, but wish fast AF was an option.
3. I have the OVF, but don't like it much because it's still a gestimate game. I want a built in viewfinder.
4. No weather sealing.
5. Did they fix the splotches of color issue?
6. Too expensive. (I bought mine right when it came out. I will wait until it drops substantially before consideration)
7. Can the shutter shoot until 100,000 snaps? I wonder.

The SD1 Merrill is not an option for me as Sigma's lenses are not right for me.

The DP2 is a great camera, but it is ONLY the Foveon sensor which makes it great. I just hope Sigma keeps making cameras but improves their R&D.
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Old 09-07-2012   #36
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The RX100 has all of these things in *****s. (why is s-pade censored?)
Derogatory term in the US.
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Old 09-07-2012   #37
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I think the headline from Luminous Landscape defines it well enough:
"Definately Not for Camera Pussys"
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Old 09-13-2012   #38
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So, did anyone get one?
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Old 09-13-2012   #39
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So, did anyone get one?
Ive ordered one but being in NZ where nobody sells them I'm still waiting for it to arrive. Will let you know what I think.
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Old 09-13-2012   #40
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They seem to be currently back order on b&h and other sites here in US as well.. It is an interesting camera.

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