2nd Body Arrived

Sean Reid · 10-17-2005

My second R-D1 body arrived today, a long-term loan unit from Epson with, possibly, just 280 exposures on it (don't know if the counter was reset or not). It's great timing because I'm shooting a wedding on Saturday and will use the Ultron 28 on one body and the Nokton 50 on the other. Did some quick tests and the Nokton seems to focus accurately - haven't tested the other lenses yet.

In JPEG mode there are several hot pixels (ISO 1600) but that doesn't matter to me because I shoot RAW only. In RAW, the loan camera has just two hot pixels that I can notice consistently. I was troubled by this until I looked again at converted RAW files from my own R-D1 (about 8000 exposures so far) and realized that it has about 4 hot pixels at ISO 1600. They must not be much of a big deal because I've never given them much thought.

The two bodies seem to be similar vintage, mine is 1622 and the loan body is 1644. The loan body has not yet shown the "double press" shutter release problem I discussed in another thread. If the problem doesn't surface on this loan body during this weekend's shoot then I'll assume my own R-D1 body is an anomally and will ask for a warranty replacement.

Scorecard so far:

Loan R-D1: LCD all scratched up (someone wasn't being careful), 2 stuck pixels in RAW, focus seems fine, no other problems noted

My own R-D1: front covering has come partly loose on the front of the body, paint has flaked off the power switch, 4 stuck pixels, shutter sometimes requires two presses when LCD is folded out but turned off.

The R-D1 hasn't seen any rougher treatment than any of the DSLRs I've used. I'm not thrilled with some of the QC issues with my own R-D1 and hope that the replacement body will be better. On the other hand, the R-D1 is still my favorite digital camera of all time. It's still a pleasure to work with and the files still look great.

I still use SLRs for some things and just replaced my 1Ds with a 5D. The 5D is a great camera, as DSLRs go, and the files are really beautiful even at ISO 3200 but I still prefer the compact R-D1 body, the RF finder window and the sturdy mechanical RF lenses.

Cheers,

Sean

SolaresLarrave · 10-17-2005

So you did go for a second body. How did you get a loaner? Just curious...

In any case, nice to know you had good news today. Good luck at the wedding!

I guess you're not dragging your Konica RF to the event, right?

Sean Reid · 10-17-2005

Hi Francisco,

I had requested a long-term loan of an R-D1 from Epson USA some time ago and they were "working on it". Then Epson Europe wanted to use a portfolio of my pictures for their web site: http://www.epsonrd1.co.uk/portfolio/index.html

I ended up swapping the usage rights for those pictures (on the web site) for a long-term loan of an R-D1 body.

Cheers,

Sean

Phil_Hawkes · 10-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolaresLarrave

So you did go for a second body. How did you get a loaner? Just curious...

In any case, nice to know you had good news today. Good luck at the wedding!

I guess you're not dragging your Konica RF to the event, right?

Hi! I think you are getting Sean and I mixed up

I was the one with the thread from a few days ago asking for advice about having 2 R-D1 cameras. I haven't bought a 2nd R-D1 yet... but I possibly will in the next few weeks. I will probably drag the Konica RF along as a backup anyway.

Sean: hope the wedding goes well

Will your final product be black and white or do you plan to have a mix? Will you use the 5D as well?

Phil

Sean Reid · 10-17-2005

BTW, my own R-D1 body also developed one other problem and then cured itself. The camera has been outdoors a lot this fall (weather as cold as mid-40s) and the release lever for the shutter speed dial locked in place (with the dial locked on A) for several weeks. Later (in the warmth of my office?) it fixed itself....

I sometimes think this camera is much like a beautiful Italian sports car - heaven on earth....when it's running.

Cheers,

Sean

SolaresLarrave · 10-17-2005

Ooops, Sorry, Phil... I should know better about our Epson RD-1 resident users. I guess Sean posted on your thread and when I checked Sean's recent posts and saw he had written on that thread... I mixed you up both.

In any case, it's nice to know you got a decent deal for your photos, Sean.

Phil, good luck with the purchase project!

mjm6 · 10-17-2005

Sean,

OK, I know this is OT, but I respect your opinion based on the articles I have seen written by you on digital subjects... If you happen to have the Canon 24mm TS lens, I'd love to hear some feedback from you on the TS with the 5D. I've been waiting for a full frame DSLR for a long time so I can shoot digital architecture with the TS.

I shoot mostly 4x5 when shooting commercially, but occasionally I pull out the 35mm for a budget shoot. The budget clients now want digital, so it makes sense to use a digital camera if one is suitable.

You can PM me to keep this discussion off the RFF if you'd like.

---Michael

Sean Reid · 10-17-2005

Phil,

I'll shoot in RAW with all the cameras but most of the R-D1 stuff is usually imagined and printed in B&W. Of course, the files could go to color but I mostly work with the R-D1 as if it was loaded with B&W film (Tri-X but ISO 1600 usually). I shoot with my wife (who is learning the ropes) and the new kit for both of us will be four bodies: both R-D1s, the 5D and a 10D. I don't like the shutter noise of the 20D so I've never owned one. The Canon 1-series bodies are great but they're loud and heavy. My wife Melissa hasn't yet learned to work with RF cameras but that may change with time.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean Reid · 10-17-2005

Michael,

I'll reply on-list in case anyone else is interested. If anyone minds us being OT, I imagine they'll tell us. I'll be doing a large review of the 5D soon (one of the first reviews on my new site) and included will be tests with the 24TSE. I shoot architecture as well and have used that lens on my 1Ds for a couple years now. My copy of the 24 TSE is sharper than some others I've tested and it's my main lens for interiors. My other primary lens for interiors is a Zeiss 18 but it doesn't work with the 5D (may need to trim the mirror, still debating). I'll be using the 5D and 24TSE for an arch. assignment next week.

Cheers,

Sean

Phil_Hawkes · 10-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Reid

I shoot with my wife (who is learning the ropes) and the new kit for both of us will be four bodies: both R-D1s, the 5D and a 10D. I don't like the shutter noise of the 20D so I've never owned one. The Canon 1-series bodies are great but they're loud and heavy. My wife Melissa hasn't yet learned to work with RF cameras but that may change with time.

Thanks Sean! I will probably have my sister carrying a (film) SLR for extra photos ... that worked out well at the last wedding. I was considering getting a DSLR for her, but I don't think I'd use one enough to warrant the purchase.

Another question.... do you process the photos for both you and your wife, or does your wife retain "creative control" over her photos?

Sean Reid · 10-17-2005

It's collaborative. Melissa is still fairly new to all this and so we tend to work on her pictures together...but she ultimately will always have creative control over her own work. We make the final edits together. Working together on this stuff is new for us and she's mostly in the absorbing, learning, experimenting stage. I'm encouraging her to dive into my library of books by Winogrand, Levitt, Koudelka, etc.. (as well as painters) to get a better sense of her edges, composition, vantage point and so on - her sense of when to press the shutter is already getting good it's just that the picture for her (so far) sort of exists near the central 2/3 of the frame and the outer (very important) parts of the pictures tend to fall apart. Her edges aren't precise yet but she knows that and is working on it. Rome wasn't built in a day but we love working together. Sometimes she's assisting and sometimes she's shooting.

Sean

Phil_Hawkes · 10-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Reid

It's collaborative. Melissa is still fairly new to all this and so we tend to work on her pictures together...but she ultimately will always have creative control over her own work. We make the final edits together. Working together on this stuff is new for us and she's mostly in the absorbing, learning, experimenting stage. I'm encouraging her to dive into my library of books by Winogrand, Levitt, Koudelka, etc.. (as well as painters) to get a better sense of her edges, composition, vantage point and so on - her sense of when to press the shutter is already getting good it's just that the picture for her (so far) sort of exists near the central 2/3 of the frame and the outer (very important) parts of the pictures tend to fall apart. Her edges aren't precise yet but she knows that and is working on it. Rome wasn't built in a day but we love working together. Sometimes she's assisting and sometimes she's shooting.

Sounds great! My sister is more artistic than me (she has done some studies in fine arts) and so I often check my work past her to see if she has any suggestions for improvements. One of these days I need to start getting experience with more experienced photographers so I can improve my composition, vantage point, etc... the more I learn, the more I realise I don't know

Phil

mjm6 · 10-18-2005

Sean,

That's good to hear. The performance with the TS lens will probably be the deciding factor in whether I get the 5D or not, and I don't expect to find too many people who can be make a good judgement on the issue, so I am somewhat at the mercy of the unknown sources on the internet. I'll probably get a 5D on trial if reports are good with it.

---Michael

Sean Reid · 10-19-2005

Michael,

I'm just doing some initial tests today in preparation for a shoot at an inn tonight and the 24 TSE does as well on the 5D as it did on the 1Ds - which is to say, quite well. If you're buying a body specifically for architecture, however, note that the 5D mirror does not clear the Zeiss 18/4 lens whereas the 1Ds does not have this problem. I haven't yet tested the Zeiss 21 on the 5D. The Zeiss 18/4 is such a handy lens for interiors, though, that if one were looking only at performance for architectural work (ISO 100) the 1Ds is probably the better choice. I'm deciding right now whether or not I want to trim the mirror on the 5D to clear the Zeiss 18 rear element.

Sean

Sean Reid · 10-19-2005

I hope noone minds the continuation of this off-topic subtopic. I seem to be hijacking my own thread. As I'm doing these 5D tests I'm also noticing how great it is to have that large 2.5" LCD for review. When I first reviewed the Leica D2, I mentioned that it's huge and sharp LCD made it a rather nice mini-viewcamera. I remember thinking at the time that it would be nice if a camera like that actually had the resolution to seem like large format. Well the 5D doesn't provide a live view, of course, but it does provide files that look like medium format film (as did the 1Ds) and a large and sharp review picture. The 1Ds LCD was, by contrast, small and blurry.

For the time being, I'm going to substitute the wide end of my 20-35L for the Zeiss 18. In my experience, the older 20-35L does better in the outer zones (less distortion and sharper) than either the 16-35L or 17-40L. The latter two are sharper on center but not by enough to matter.

Sean

Sean

tajart · 10-19-2005

just curious about the hot/dead pixels- do they have any effect or show up in the image files or printed image, or are they a visual nuisance on the camera monitor?

Jim Watts · 10-19-2005

Sean,
Sounds from your comments that the 5D is looking like a good buy, I look forward to your further findings. It's a pity I brought the 20D a little over a year ago, which I only did because I thought the RD-1 would not make it to the U.K. Its a good camera but for most of the things I use it for I prefer the RD-1 and still use film in Medium or Large format for higher quality.

The thought of a reasonably priced digital alternative to medium/large format film is certainly attractive. Live review, with this size screen, would be very nice though if this could be arranged on an SLR. Given this and a perspective control lens such as you are using I could save my back by not carting my Linhoff Technica 5x4 about on the odd occassions I need higher quality and beter control.

Sean Reid · 10-19-2005

Hi Jim,

I'm going to do a full review of the 5D on the new web site (looking right now for a web person who can design a secure flash site so that the content is not easily pirated). The 5D will be getting a good workout in the next couple weeks. I have an architectural shoot I'll use it for that begins tonight and then I'll also use it for the flash reception pictures at a wedding Saturday (will use the two R-D1 bodies for all the existing light stuff). That will give me a lot of raw material for a review of how it works for both fast and slow/deliberate work. Sony does have that new APS-C sensor camera with a live LCD but it of course doesn't have the kind of resolution we're talking about.

To all: Sorry to have veered off the discussion of the 2nd R-D1 body but there's not too much to say about it except that it will be great to have the 28 and 50 ready to go at any time.

BTW, I've just ordered a Tokina 17 Pro that is reputed to be a good lens. If it does well for interiors on the 5D, I should be in good shape.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean Reid · 10-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by tajart

just curious about the hot/dead pixels- do they have any effect or show up in the image files or printed image, or are they a visual nuisance on the camera monitor?

They'll show up on any high-res files you give clients so they need to be cloned. It's a pain but no worse that spotting sensor dust or spotting prints (silver process). The slight silver lining is that one only has bother dealing with them on files that survive a final edit. Sometimes, one gets lucky and they appear only in parts of the picture where they blend in with surrounding tone.

Sean

brightsky · 10-21-2005

Since you hijacked your own thread I don't feel too bad about doing it either.

Some time ago you posted a thread regarding subscriptions for your web site. Is this the new flash site to which you're referring? I hope so!

CM

Sean Reid · 10-21-2005

Hi CM,

Yes, it is and thanks for asking. I'm just getting the logistics done so that the site is reasonably secure. I have many articles planned: the new Zeiss lenses, Canon 5D, Leica DMR, long-term review report on the R-D1, etc.. I had hoped to be able to do it via a secure version of PDF but the software for that is $5000 it seems. If anyone on this list is an expert on secure PDF, I'd welcome advice off-list at sreid@sover.net. I'm just looking at ways to create the site so that only legitimate subscribers have access to the content. I want to prevent piracy as much as I can.

Fortunately, I'm much more knowledgeable about photography than about web site creation.

Cheers,

Sean

Phil_Hawkes · 10-25-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Reid

My second R-D1 body arrived today, a long-term loan unit from Epson with, possibly, just 280 exposures on it (don't know if the counter was reset or not). It's great timing because I'm shooting a wedding on Saturday and will use the Ultron 28 on one body and the Nokton 50 on the other.

Hi Sean,

Just wondering how the wedding went with the two cameras...?

Phil (very, very close to buying a 2nd R-D1)

Sean Reid · 10-26-2005

It went very well and it was great to have the 50 and 28 at hand without switching. My only slight dissapointment came in comparing the high ISO color files with those from the 5D (admittedly a tough camera to compete with in terms of noise etc.). For B&W, I like the R-D1 all the way up to ISO1600 (and sometimes even pushed beyond that). In color, I like it better up to ISO 800. That said, ISO 1600 in color is certainly useable from the camera, it's just not in the same league as the newest Canons. At any ISO, I now prefer the R-D1 color conversions in C1 to those from PhotoRAW. C1 really nails the skintones whereas PhotoRAW (even with careful WB selection by eyedropper) still tends to run a little reddish. The C1 color conversions also show less noise without giving up much detail.

So my preferred MO is now:

R-D1 in RAW to expected B&W...all ISO levels, convert in PhotoRAW

R-D1 in RAW to expected color...through ISO 800, convert in C1

5D in RAW through ISO 1600 (even 3200 in a pinch) B&W conversions from RAW in DPP2
Color in DPP for now until C1 support is released

I still prefer the rangefinders but the 5D is certainly earning its keep.

Cheers,

Sean

Jim Watts · 10-26-2005

Sean,

Sorry this is a bit OT again, but do you see any noise banding issues with the 5D especially at high ISO's. My major issue with noise from my 20D in comparison to the RD-1 is not the amount of noise, but its nature, in that it tends to band. This is also apparent at lower iso's on wide dynamic range subjects if you expose to hold the highlights and then pull up the shadows.

I therefore prefer the look from 400 iso up from the RD-1 compared to the 20D, although I understand there is a fair bit of sample vartiation in 20D's in this respect. Hopefully the 5D is much better.

Jim

Sean Reid · 10-26-2005

Hi Jim,

I haven't run into any banding with the 5D at all.

Cheers,

Sean