A users story

[macjim]

Here's a short but interesting user story for those that are interested in manual focusing. http://doncraigphoto.wordpress.com/2...uji-x-cameras/

[rbelyell]

a good point. however, this is what many mean when they say this AF issue is overblown because folks simply do not take the time to learn how to operate the camera (in question). ive been shooting with the described method since i first got the x100 almost a year ago! so have many many others who took the time to read the manual and work with the camera instead of throwing hissy fits. i also find this method helpful for those, like me, who want to separate 'focus' from 'metering'.
tony

[Captain Trips]

Like it. Helped me. I am on struggling to find time to peruse manuals! But I am not chucking a "hissy" about the XP1. I reckon it gives great output IQ wise and is a joy to use. That's what it is about.

[mabelsound]

Interesting method--I think I'm going to give it a try.

[Phantomas]

Originally Posted by rbelyell

a good point. however, this is what many mean when they say this AF issue is overblown because folks simply do not take the time to learn how to operate the camera (in question). ive been shooting with the described method since i first got the x100 almost a year ago! so have many many others who took the time to read the manual and work with the camera instead of throwing hissy fits. i also find this method helpful for those, like me, who want to separate 'focus' from 'metering'.
tony

So you are saying that AF works because you can... manually focus. I see.

[willie_901]

I have used this method for about a year. Sometimes it is not necessary and I use S focus mode and recompose when needed.

However, in situations similar to those in the blog article, AMF gets the job done. As with an analog RF, you have to take care not to subconsciously move the camera by leaning your body when the DOF is thin.

[willie_901]

Originally Posted by Phantomas

So you are saying that AF works because you can... manually focus. I see.

The AF works because the photographer operates it manually as oppose to letting the camera make all the decisions. With guidance from the photograper, the AF sets the initial focus. The photographer then confirms the AF got it right and makes a small correction if needed. This sounds slow when you read it, but with practice and experience it is not slow.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by willie_901

The AF works because the photographer operates it manually as oppose to letting the camera make all the decisions. With guidance from the photograper, the AF sets the initial focus.

I'm not so sure there is a huge difference between using the shutter release button to AF and using the AE button to AF... specifically speaking to letting the camera make decisions.

[rbelyell]

Originally Posted by Phantomas

So you are saying that AF works because you can... manually focus. I see.

no, you obviously DON'T see, smartass comment to the contrary. i typically don't mind smartass comments when the commentator actually understands the issue fully. unfortunately thats not the case here.

when in MF mode, pressing the AFL button causes the camera to actually autofocus. IF necessary, it also allows a next step of allowing more precise manual adjustments. based on a years worth of actual experience, ive found the 'IF necessary' to be about 5% of the time.

[Phantomas]

Did all your years of experience also make you understand that those complaining were doing so about the AF functionality in AF mode, just as originally intended, not about lack of alternatives? Or does the manual advise to use AFL button instead of shutter button as originally intended and commonly used by majority of casual shooters?
I'm all for improving functionallity through alternative methods, but no need to patronize people who expect the camera to function well with originally intended method.
Anyway, I don't have an issue with Fuji focus, but don't go accusing those who do of ignorance. They have their valid point.

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by Phantomas

Did all your years of experience also make you understand that those complaining were doing so about the AF functionality in AF mode, just as originally intended, not about lack of alternatives? Or does the manual advise to use AFL button instead of shutter button as originally intended and commonly used by majority of casual shooters?
I'm all for improving functionallity through alternative methods, but no need to patronize people who expect the camera to function well with originally intended method.
Anyway, I don't have an issue with Fuji focus, but don't go accusing those who do of ignorance. They have their valid point.

Generally most who complain about autofocus are just using it poorly or incorrectly. The MF/AF method described above is exactly the same as normal AF focussing but has that added degree of possible control at the end. Personally, I have never felt the need to adjust the AF point once focussed - it's the most accurate AF I've used, including cameras like the canon 1D's.

[Phantomas]

Originally Posted by gavinlg

it's the most accurate AF I've used, including cameras like the canon 1D's.

Dangerous comparison, given their past so called fiasco OK, OK, Joke!! Let's not get all worked up about it

In this case it is down to people not being able to use even a simple AUTO-focus, not their familiarity with the manual and alternative focusing methods.
Like I said, I didn't have an issue with Fuji focus myself, but did read some negative comments from usually reliable sources (usually about speed rather than precision). I wouldn't blame the authors of ignorance, maybe hostility towards the system or too high expectations? I don't think the format of the camera is geared towards sports-fast focus anyway.

[gavinlg]

It's likely expectations just differ greatly. I was thinking about making a video of my x100 focussing on things to see how others perceive AF speed.

[rbelyell]

to be clear, and i do pride myself on saying exactly what i intend to convey, i said nothing about 'ignorance'. you inferred 'ignorance' from my claim that folks 'are not taking the time to learn to use the camera properly'. your interpretation, not what i said. further, 'not taking the time to learn' does not even imply ignorance, it implies laziness. i dont think anyone is too stupid to use the camera properly; i do think that many are too lazy to use the camera properly. just as many are too lazy to fully read and think about others comments before they reply.

[Phantomas]

Originally Posted by rbelyell

to be clear, and i do pride myself on saying exactly what i intend to convey, i said nothing about 'ignorance'. you inferred 'ignorance' from my claim that folks 'are not taking the time to learn to use the camera properly'. your interpretation, not what i said. further, 'not taking the time to learn' does not even imply ignorance, it implies laziness. i dont think anyone is too stupid to use the camera properly; i do think that many are too lazy to use the camera properly. just as many are too lazy to fully read and think about others comments before they reply.

He said she said, maybe you should read better instead of editing your comments to add insults and understand what the original article is about. I'm out, feel free to carry on.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by gavinlg

Generally most who complain about autofocus are just using it poorly or incorrectly.

I can assure you I know how to use the AF and I do complain about it. It misses and the OVF is still inaccurate at times, regarding focus point, even with the corrected AF. Also, the AF IS slow compared to a DSLR, Nex, or OMD. Sure, we adapt to it and make it work for us... but it has issues worth complaining about. I wouldn't want Fuji to release the AF untouched in the next model. Complaining might make them actually enhance it.

[macjim]

If I had thought this article would cause you to have a ding dong match I'd have kept it to myself. Chill out guys and agree to disagree.

[back alley]

you know...the author of that blog is a member here, eh?
fellow canuck!

[willie_901]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

I'm not so sure there is a huge difference between using the shutter release button to AF and using the AE button to AF... specifically speaking to letting the camera make decisions.

There's a huge inference because using the AEL/AFL button means you are in manual focus mode. Now you can zoom to check the focus, both region and accuracy. Once the focus is set, you can half press the shutter button without the camera deciding it has to focus again.

[intheviewfinder]

I've taken 2k+ photos with the XP1 camera using just one lens (Fujinon 35mm). My conclusion is the AF is not very good. It is just plan sluggish. One needs to work slowly and carefully using any focusing method other than zone focus. It is not very flexible. One needs to understand its limits and work situations. Unlike using many digital cameras today which are very flexible and useful in a variety of situations the XP1 is a disappointment.

I bought the X100 which Fuji slowly improved. I purchased the XP1 thinking that they would incorporate those improvements into the newer camera. But no, even the Auto ISO is the same crippled version that the X100 started with, WTF. I felt with the X100 that they released too soon and now with the XP1 I'm paying for beta release.

When I use MF as described above, the focus point in the initial focus is not the point I see in the EVF when I hit the command dial. And if you don't have to wear eyeglasses your view in the VF is okay but because there are multiple planes of focus in the viewfinder it is difficult to figure out which diopter is correct.

In all of the digital cameras I've purchase only these two Fuji's have frustrated me. It's such a shame that a concept this beautiful has an execution that is quite lacking.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by macjim

If I had thought this article would cause you to have a ding dong match I'd have kept it to myself. Chill out guys and agree to disagree.

Come on man, we aren't in a ding dong match... just having a internet debate. gavinlg can handle it...

[doncraig]

Originally Posted by back alley

you know...the author of that blog is a member here, eh?
fellow canuck!

Hey Macjim and Joe, thanks for the plug, eh!

Folks, I didn't mean to start an argument. Just wanted to point out an alternative means of using the cameras. I also set up my work Nikon D700 this way, separating focus from exposure and, in the case of the X-cameras, giving me a bit more control over focus than I experienced with my rangefinders. Having the opportunity to focus peek is a nice feature, particularly when shooting wide open. I know that I missed focus with RFs when shooting with a shallow depth of field due to slight misalignment between lens and camera. It's nice to have a bit more control and to give my old eyes a hand.

Intheviewfinder, AF or AMF certainly depends upon the conditions under which one shoots, however, I have shot in very low light with good focusing success. The key for me has been to use all of the focusing features available on the cameras. When I started to use the X-100 and XP1, I wanted to use them like a RF and only use the optical viewfinder. The optical viewfinder is great for many things, but a quick switch to the EVF can determine whether you have achieved focus and then switch back to the OVF. When shooting portraits (an upcoming blog post), I use the EVF a lot.

As for the focus points being different, this may be because they can be different from EVF to OVF. Yes, you can move the focus point in one and it does not move in the other. So to work quickly, I just keep them in the centre and recompose once I have focused.

I recommend that you get a diopter to avoid shooting with your glasses on. I'm never happy shooting with my glasses on because of how awkward it is to see through that extra layer. CV diopters fit and Fuji will release their own diopters in August.

It seems like all cameras have trade offs. The key for my personal shooting happiness has been to find the camera(s) that give me the most features I need without being too difficult with which to work. Sometimes that means I lug around the D700 and a couple of monster lenses. Fortunately, most of the time, for work or pleasure, I happily use the X-P1. And as I become more familiar with how it works, the happier I have become. It's not a RF and in some situations, that is a good thing. Yet, if it's not working for you, then it's not working for you.

[macjim]

Originally Posted by doncraig

Hey Macjim and Joe, thanks for the plug, eh!

Folks, I didn't mean to start an argument. Just wanted to point out an alternative means of using the cameras. I also set up my work Nikon D700 this way, separating focus from exposure and, in the case of the X-cameras, giving me a bit more control over focus than I experienced with my rangefinders. Having the opportunity to focus peek is a nice feature, particularly when shooting wide open. I know that I missed focus with RFs when shooting with a shallow depth of field due to slight misalignment between lens and camera. It's nice to have a bit more control and to give my old eyes a hand.

Intheviewfinder, AF or AMF certainly depends upon the conditions under which one shoots, however, I have shot in very low light with good focusing success. The key for me has been to use all of the focusing features available on the cameras. When I started to use the X-100 and XP1, I wanted to use them like a RF and only use the optical viewfinder. The optical viewfinder is great for many things, but a quick switch to the EVF can determine whether you have achieved focus and then switch back to the OVF. When shooting portraits (an upcoming blog post), I use the EVF a lot.

As for the focus points being different, this may be because they can be different from EVF to OVF. Yes, you can move the focus point in one and it does not move in the other. So to work quickly, I just keep them in the centre and recompose once I have focused.

I recommend that you get a diopter to avoid shooting with your glasses on. I'm never happy shooting with my glasses on because of how awkward it is to see through that extra layer. CV diopters fit and Fuji will release their own diopters in August.

It seems like all cameras have trade offs. The key for my personal shooting happiness has been to find the camera(s) that give me the most features I need without being too difficult with which to work. Sometimes that means I lug around the D700 and a couple of monster lenses. Fortunately, most of the time, for work or pleasure, I happily use the X-P1. And as I become more familiar with how it works, the happier I have become. It's not a RF and in some situations, that is a good thing. Yet, if it's not working for you, then it's not working for you.

I liked the article 👍

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[ColSebastianMoran]

doncraig, thanks for the excellent article and comments here.

[Jamie Pillers]

I read the story and it seems the writer understands the capabilities of the XP1. Anyone thinking of buying the XP1 needs to know that it has a learning curve... AS DOES ANY CAMERA EVER BUILT!

I've been using the XP1 for several months now. I use both AF and MF modes roughly equally. I don't remember mis-focusing ever, so long as I had it pointed at what I wanted to focus on (read: user needs to pay attention, AS WITH ANY CAMERA).

I wear glasses and I don't experience any more shortcomings than WITH ANY CAMERA I'VE EVER USED.

The only remark I'd add to those made above by people that have used the XP1 for long enough to understand its operational subtleties, is this: The XP1, in my opinion, can serve any photographic purpose except possibly those of a pro sports photographer that needs continuous, instantaneous focus and huge burst capacity. I can say this confidently because I know that photographers for decades have been using gear far less capable than the XP1 to produce fine images.