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Old 07-23-2012   #51
Paul T.
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Well, according to dpreview, they've copied at least one aspect from the Fuji. Slow focusing!
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Old 07-23-2012   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul T. View Post
Well, according to dpreview, they've copied at least one aspect from the Fuji. Slow focusing!
At least they didn't copy it from their own line-up: previous 1D-series non-focus
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Old 07-23-2012   #53
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Originally Posted by igi View Post
well, at least now, a full frame mirrorless is really possible.
"The EF-M mount is 58mm in diameter, with a flange distance of 18mm from the bayonet to the sensor. As the image above clearly shows it's matched specifically to the APS-C sensor size. So don't expect a future full frame EF-M mount camera - it's not going to happen." From DPR
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Old 07-23-2012   #54
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(Wanders off to check out the new Panasonic LX7, put some more pennies into my Nex 5N or 7 account and shoot some film.)
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Old 07-23-2012   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahudson View Post
"The EF-M mount is 58mm in diameter, with a flange distance of 18mm from the bayonet to the sensor. As the image above clearly shows it's matched specifically to the APS-C sensor size. So don't expect a future full frame EF-M mount camera - it's not going to happen." From DPR
I meant an EF mount since they gave in to the mirrorless trend and have the full frame lenses... something which has been stopping the other mirrorless players.
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Old 07-23-2012   #56
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Originally Posted by igi View Post
I meant an EF mount since they gave in to the mirrorless trend and have the full frame lenses... something which has been stopping the other mirrorless players.
Sure, but if they go EF mount the camera's not going to be thin due to the large flange-to-sensor distance in the EF standard. So they'll end up with something that might as well have had a mirror box like the Pentax KO-1.

What Canon is saying here by introducing a 1.6 crop mirrorless is unambiguous: Panasonic and Olympus [2.0], Fuji and Samsung [1.5] all have found the optimal balance between sensor, lens, and camera size, and image quality. And for most people, that balance does not favor FF.
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Old 07-23-2012   #57
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Sure, but if they go EF mount the camera's not going to be thin due to the large flange-to-sensor distance in the EF standard. So they'll end up with something that might as well have had a mirror box like the Pentax KO-1.

What Canon is saying here by introducing a 1.6 crop mirrorless is unambiguous: Panasonic and Olympus [2.0], Fuji and Samsung [1.5] all have found the optimal balance between sensor, lens, and camera size, and image quality. And for most people, that balance does not favor FF.
I wonder why Sony, which is the most successful APS-C mirrorless producer to date. Was not mentioned alongside the other four manufacturers you named above.
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Old 07-23-2012   #58
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It's just a not-so-fast-follower product, a "me too" product to fill a gap in their line-up. Somebody who has alway bought "consumer" Canon gear won't have to switch brands to get a trendy mirrorless.

Better to have a slightly inferior product than nothing at all to defend the "consumer" market share, I suppose. I would expect much better from Canon in the future; I think the format/technology is evolving too fast for a "statement" product.
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Old 07-23-2012   #59
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The main problem I have with this and the Nikon 1 is that the functionality of the camera is aimed consumers wanting to upgrade from P&S cameras. Unfortunately, the new Sony large sensor P&S, and large sensor compacts in general, are a much better type upgrade for those people. Most consumers I know would want the zoom, yet that kills the form factor. So with what its likely to be the preferred option, its still not a pocket camera and barely a purse camera. Finally, the $800 price tag is too much for a T4i and its too much for the EOS-M. Personally, I would buy the new Sony over this as my walk around camera for that very reason. That's even after I swore to never buy a camera with less than a FF sensor again....

So this camera is not for me, I knew that the moment I saw that it came in a color other that black and silver. That is fine. Yet, in a market were there are so many better options would Canon release this camera? Say I was going to buy a mirrorless camera tomorrow. What would make me buy this over a Nex-5n, OM-D, GH2/G5/GF, or Pen cameras? Features? No, the EOS-M has nothing that these others don't. Len selection and quality? No. Sensor size? No. Speed? No. Price? No. Size? No. The whole thing is just Meh.... So what would I buy? The Nex 5n. The size is in the same league, the lens selection is in the same league, the feature set is better, the image quality is better and the sensor is a tiny bit bigger 1.5 crop vs 1.6 crop.

I really don't get why they didn't come to the market strong...

Update: the Camera hit Amazon Per-order #1 spot.... I guess people don't care that there are better options.
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Old 07-23-2012   #60
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i wonder what the image quality will be like...
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Old 07-23-2012   #61
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I don't, at all, think it's "ugly." It just isn't a very inspiring design. But, i thought the rumors suggested there were going to be two models. A high- and a low- end. This one must be the low.

• I like that they have a small 35mm-e at launch. But, i wonder how large the upcoming lenses will be. If the e-50mm is going to be long and unwieldy, i'll have no interest in the system.
• I don't like a non-articulating screen, especially without a viewfinder.
• It is quite small. Not much wider and higher than a Contax T3.
• But, still — it's not pocketable, except in a jacket. There's a certain minimum size a camera has to be — a pocket threshold. This still doesn't meet it, so the tiny-ish-ness might make it clumsy to operate.
• No controls for aperture/shutter speed. From a video i saw, it seems you need to access a menu to change these parameters, as if you're changing ISO. That is a major dealbreaker for me. Unless they have a screen that remains on while the camera's operating, that has a simple finger swipe gesture to change time and aperture, without pushing a button to access them.
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Old 07-23-2012   #62
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i wonder what the image quality will be like...
Same as the T4i right, its the same camera really....
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Old 07-23-2012   #63
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what's a t4i?
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Old 07-23-2012   #64
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what's a t4i?

Sorry, the Canon Rebel T4i alternately known as the Canon 650D. They seem to be the same camera, one with a mirror and one without.
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Old 07-23-2012   #65
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Sorry, the Canon Rebel T4i alternately known as the Canon 650D. They seem to be the same camera, one with a mirror and one without.
thanks...i'll do some research...
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Old 07-23-2012   #66
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T4i is the American designation for the 650D
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Old 07-24-2012   #67
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Apparently, it is selling well. http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/home...era-at-amazon/
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Old 07-24-2012   #68
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pretty conservative design from Canon. G1X has more manual controls, but sure we will see prosumer EOS-M at some point. yet another lens mount is sad, but alternative is take Pentax K01 path and compromise the design.
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Old 07-24-2012   #69
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Well i guess canon finally states mirror cameras are past...future belongs to mirror less cameras...an EVF´s...

Hope we can see again a rangefinder camera made by canon....
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Old 07-24-2012   #70
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Originally Posted by back alley View Post
i wonder what the image quality will be like...
i have an older t2i and the image quality from it is fantastic, and has been said to be even slightly better than the 7D, a higher line body. i don't think the t3i and t4i improved IQ that much (they added tilt screen (t3i) and better AF(t4i)) , but they didn't really need to. if canon puts some better controls on this M line it will be very very good.
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Old 07-24-2012   #71
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For the record, that "wheel" around the shutter button is just a three-selection switch. It has Full Auto, Program (allowing P,S,A,M Modes to be selected via menu) and Video.

Ho hum...

For being the last camera-maker to enter the mirrorless market, they sure dropped the ball for us enthusiasts and pros looking for something small and light to travel with. About the only inspiring thing is the APS-C and 35mm f/2 lens. I'll stick with my 5D Classic and 40/2.8 STM combo for now, thanks.
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Old 07-24-2012   #72
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For the record, that "wheel" around the shutter button is just a three-selection switch. It has Full Auto, Program (allowing P,S,A,M Modes to be selected via menu) and Video.

Ho hum...
didn't know that, guess this is really designed for full LCD control. the market for people moving up from point and shoots is probably bigger than the market for old fuddy duddies who need manual controls, lol.
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Old 07-24-2012   #73
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I wonder why Sony, which is the most successful APS-C mirrorless producer to date. Was not mentioned alongside the other four manufacturers you named above.
Obviously I'm part of the global anti-Sony conspiracy/omerta/jihad. </sarcasm>
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Old 07-24-2012   #74
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Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven View Post
...
• No controls for aperture/shutter speed. From a video i saw, it seems you need to access a menu to change these parameters, as if you're changing ISO. That is a major dealbreaker for me. Unless they have a screen that remains on while the camera's operating, that has a simple finger swipe gesture to change time and aperture, without pushing a button to access them.
Can you provide a link to that video? Overall, I have found this a poor offering from Canon and having to change shutter speed AND aperture opening as you've described is a complete non-starter.
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Old 07-24-2012   #75
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I find it incredibly interesting that they didn't include a built-in flash. If this is marketed at point-and-shooters looking for an upgrade, they're missing a key component. My mom would run screaming from a camera that she had to actually put a shoe-mounted flash on. She can barely work her 6-year-old CoolPix. Let alone something like this with a lens and a flash and all that touch-screen crap. She'd be so buried in menus and settings that she'd never get out and the camera would just end up in the pool. Not to mention the size. You take a T4i with an 18-55 kit lens and you've got a fairly small package. Pop-up flash included. Take this EOS-M (stupid name) and add an 18-55 lens and a shoe-mount flash and you've got something easily larger and more cumbersome than any of the Rebel lineup.

Canon has clearly thrown together something as small as an S100 with a big, bright touch screen and they've given no real thought to who this thing is marketed to and real-world experience. In my opinion, it's a foolish entry into the Mirrorless world. It's essentially a Panasonic GF5 with a bigger sensor and no flash. It's CERTAINLY NOT comparable to the NEX lineup or the offerings from Fuji.

It's just a stupid, gimmicky, little toy that will create buzz for a bit and then be upgraded every year for the next 5 years until they come out with the next thing. I was really expecting a G1X with interchangeable lenses and a decent VF or at the very least, the option for one. Shame...
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