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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Why has NX been such a failure?
Old 07-19-2012   #1
Avotius
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Why has NX been such a failure?

Face it, Samsung's NX line of cameras and lenses has been a catastrophic failure.

No one buys them. I have never seen a person with one.

Yet there is a lot of lenses and bodies to choose from. Still, no one can be bothered.

What the heck did Samsung do wrong? Maybe they should have removed the name Samsung and it would have done better.
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Old 07-19-2012   #2
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nobody talks NX here because it does not take M-lenses. "missing open goal" some member commented when specs became public.

but are they doing bad in market in general, hard to say. dont think they differ from Japanese compacts that much.
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Old 07-19-2012   #3
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Because it's Samsung.
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Old 07-19-2012   #4
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Unfortunatelly for Samsung, this market segment has been very competitive lately. There are compacts with better sensors out there, for example Sony with their Nex line.
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Old 07-19-2012   #5
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I think it's like with cars - people can buy worse vehicle for higher price just because they know name. Yes, Samsung makes also many average compacts, but they aren't average company. I don't know and care if they imitate or innovate, but clearly their EX1 (TL500) and successor model are worth attention, as NX system is. I noticed them in times of rebranded Pentax DSLRs - I don't care if pentaprism says Samsung not Pentax, I'm looking for value and performance not a name.
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Old 07-20-2012   #6
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Maybe it's marketing?

I've just acquired an NX200 (thanks, Robin) and think it's terrific. The 30 mm f2 pancake is a little gem and very competitively priced. What's not to like?
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Old 07-20-2012   #7
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Actually I tried the original nx10 while a rep was in my local camera store, and it was really pretty nice. Nicely made, nice viewfinder - kind of like a pre-OMD.

When I got home and looked at the files though it put the camera out of my mind. It uses a samsung sensor, and I really didn't like what the jpegs or raw through ACR were giving me. Something off about the color and tones.
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Old 07-20-2012   #8
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I suppose there is just no compelling reason to get one. With NEX, there is the tiny size or the high MP of the NEX-7, with m43, there is the range of lenses and the sexiness of some of the Olympus models. With X100, it's sexy with a great finder. Samsung? It just does not have any unique selling point, it's just too "blah".

Maybe once you've owned one a while, you realise it's great, but most people won't even give it a try, I mean, why would you?
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Old 07-20-2012   #9
AJS Lamb
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The Nex-7 is very, very expensive. The Samsung offers similar performance at a fraction of the price.

It all depends on what you want, of course. I was after a compact body and a small, fast prime.

When I compared various systems, I found it interesting that the NX was so low profile. There is something sexy about some m43 products but 20 meg and a bigger sensor swung it for me.

I've sure that there may be better systems out there but I'm happy with what I have.
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Old 07-20-2012   #10
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Samsung sensors have traditionally lagged compared to Sony's, especially at high-ISO.

When that changes (and it will) Samsung will better compete.
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Old 07-20-2012   #11
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"Samsung sensors have traditionally lagged compared to Sony's, especially at high-ISO."

Probably but the superiority comes with a significant price hike.
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Old 07-20-2012   #12
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I have an nx10 with 2/30 and think it's a very good camera with excellent IQ. Even so, I'm selling it and want to buy an X100. Why? The design and ergonomics of the nx10 do not appeal to me - I don't 'connect' to it.
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Old 07-20-2012   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
Because it's Samsung.
You beat me to it.....

Samsung enjoys an unbelievable monopoly in their home market w/ all their products, but can't compete when the going gets tough elsewhere.
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Old 07-20-2012   #14
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Out of scope because it is technically very complicated to adopt M lenses to a NX body. And other RF lenses as well, I suppose. I don't get it why they didn't look at this point at Samsung... (like Sony, m4/3, Ricoh, Fuji)
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Old 07-20-2012   #15
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Sensor and lens quality issues, whether current or past (and affecting the reputation only), aside, its mount is rather an obstacle when it comes to attaching alien manual focus lenses - too deep for Leica or C-mount, too narrow to work around that long flange distance, and not as readily dropping into some dumb "adapter" mode as Sony E cameras.

As the lens adapting geek crowd have been among the most visible early EVIL adopters on the net, alienating them left Samsung without any of the viral marketing push the competition got for free...
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Old 07-20-2012   #16
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Here in Seoul I do see Samsung NX (and other cameras) being used, but not significantly more than other Japanese (or german) brands. I guess it's more heavily promoted over here. But I've never had the chance to ask around why someone would buy Samsung, perhaps that would give some insights.
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Old 07-20-2012   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJS Lamb View Post
The Nex-7 is very, very expensive. The Samsung offers similar performance at a fraction of the price.

It all depends on what you want, of course. I was after a compact body and a small, fast prime.

When I compared various systems, I found it interesting that the NX was so low profile. There is something sexy about some m43 products but 20 meg and a bigger sensor swung it for me.

I've sure that there may be better systems out there but I'm happy with what I have.
I don't question for a second the NX is a great camera, I think it just does not have a "pull" to get in new customers. I'm considering a digital compact system right now, but Samsung just does not make the shortlist, and I can't even explain why!
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Old 07-20-2012   #18
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Pretty obvious.

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Old 07-20-2012   #19
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" I'm considering a digital compact system right now, but Samsung just does not make the shortlist, and I can't even explain why!"

Fair enough! To each his, or her, own.

Before buying I went down to Jessops, on New Oxford street, where the service has improved beyond recognition, and checked out the NX as well as other systems. The NX appealed. Simple as that. Small camera, biggish sensor. Decent price.

However, it's fair to point out that I'm not going to build up a comprehensive system. Got all I need. If I was going to do that perhaps I would have considered other systems/formats etc.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 07-20-2012   #20
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1. (as already mentioned) it's Samsung (Sony got a pass because of their video heritage, Zeiss affiliation, and the purchase of Minolta's camera division).
2. Crappy sensor. I looked at comparisons early on and wrote it off.
3. It's Samsung.
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Old 07-20-2012   #21
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I've got an NX100 with the EVF and the 30mm lens. It's a nice compact package after a big DSLR and I love the lens, but I'm waiting for Samsung to catch up with the competition and come up with a body which does better high ISOs and maybe VR/IS.
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Old 07-20-2012   #22
AJS Lamb
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DP Review gave the NX200 a seriously good review. I realise that this camera dates all the way back to 2011 but I am very forgiving.
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Old 07-20-2012   #23
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When the NX10 was first out, i looked at it at the same time i was investigating the Pen and Panasonic mirrorless stuff. I disliked the Olympus and Panny, and liked the Samsung. That they also had a (good) 30/f2 pancake was icing. But, i waited, due to rumors of other impending systems. I'm still waiting.

Last month, i went to B&H, the SUPERstore, to check out the current situation. Saw the Sonys. Saw the Fujis. Still don't like the Olympus (even the OM-D). Still don't like the Panasonics.... Went, specifically to see the NX210... and could NOT find it. It wasn't on display in the central kiosk area. I was told to look at one of the counters. Didn't see it there. The rep behind that counter told me to go look in the 'pro' section behind the counter. Didn't see it there, either. I ended up just leaving. It might be a great camera, but when even B&H makes it impossible to see, it doesn't seem the system is being supported, retail-wise, well enough to survive in this market.

It's a shame, as the new bodies look sorta like the NEX, but with the advantage of that great small lens....
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Old 07-20-2012   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJS Lamb View Post
"Samsung sensors have traditionally lagged compared to Sony's, especially at high-ISO."

Probably but the superiority comes with a significant price hike.
I though they both use the exact same Sony sensor, no?
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Old 07-20-2012   #25
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Samsung... in the states that most likely means a TV to 99% of the people.

Me: I didn't even know they made a camera(s).
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Old 07-20-2012   #26
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Quote:
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Samsung... in the states that most likely means a TV to 99% of the people.

Me: I didn't even know they made a camera(s).
and their TVs shine...!
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Old 07-20-2012   #27
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Dear Mr Dexter-Haven,

Sorry to hear B&H let you down. Did you drive all the way from Philadelphia? The NX200 is worth looking around for.

I once bought a lousy batch of 35mm colour neg off B&H. Grrr.
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Old 07-20-2012   #28
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Samsung have been "connected" to Schneider in the past.
They could have bought long time "partner" Pentax if only to inherit a legacy, and buy sensor from Sony until they can produce one with superior quality.

In other words, who knows where they dropped the ball.
But dropped the ball they did.
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Old 07-20-2012   #29
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I don't know much about digital cameras, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Samsung's WiFi connectivity. That is the one thing that would pull me over from film, once the technology matures. I thing smart phones have it all over other digicams, but what I'd really like is a camera that can upload to the web, rather that a phone or a tablet that can take pictures.
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Old 07-20-2012   #30
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I wonder if Samsung would have done better if it said Pentax on the front instead.

That said, my wife and I are totally against Samsung products. I wanted a Samsung Note phone but because it said Samsung, I wouldn't buy it, for that reason alone, because it seems to us every time we think about one of their products, there is some magnificent short sighted problem with it or otherwise its just not competitive.
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Old 07-20-2012   #31
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It's their arrogance that turn me off:

1. They don't see the need to be compatible with M mount, and decided to part with Pentax, less enthusiast talk about them on various forum and it become a downward spiral.
2. They talked about how they are going to "own" the mirrorless market early on, and falsely advertised how much better their sensor is against m4/3, while in reality their sensor is not particularly good even with the size advantage.

They might have a better sensor now, or have a great line of lens, but I will not buy a Samsung camera. O, and I had a samsung phone that broke within a year, that doesn't help either.
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Old 07-21-2012   #32
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I like their newer Galaxy smartphones and their flat TVs (and at our home, we only "upgrade" TV every decade, so I'm pretty selective ).
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Old 07-21-2012   #33
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Look familiar?
(hint: it isn't made by Sony.)

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Old 07-21-2012   #34
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Quote:
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I wonder if Samsung would have done better if it said Pentax on the front instead.
Excellent point. I think there are several marketing problems and challenges with the NX. Using the Pentax name may have done nothing but help.
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Old 07-21-2012   #35
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I liked my nx10, but the glass was horrible. Not for rff type of people. But I bet you if they make a retro look nx it will fly off the shelves
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Old 07-21-2012   #36
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I own one digital camera--well, apart from my cell phone--and is is a Samsung. Not an NX. The HZ50W (maybe? not real sure of the model number) and have been very happy with it. Not similar to the NX series in that it is a fixed zoom lens. When I picked it, I was looking for two things: a fairly long zoom ratio and a viewfinder. For this camera I wanted to simplify the kit; as little to carry as I could get. Hence, the zoom lens. And I really can't use a camera without some kind of viewfinder. So, I looked at Canon, Pentax, and Samsung. The Canon and Pentax models that were closest to the Samsung were significantly more money--about $200 more--and not really specced any better. The Canon did have an articulated screen on the back but that wasn't important to me. The Pentax model is, I think, the same cameras as the model I bought with very slight cosmetic differences. My dad did buy the Pentax and likes it.

When the NX cameras came out, I did look at them but am not, yet, needing to replace the camera I have. When I am looking again for another digital, I will look seriously at Samsung.
If I had not already owned a digital, the NX would have been VERY appealing.
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Old 07-27-2012   #37
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I had a nice comprehensive DSLR system but occasionally wanted to go out with just one small camera - ultimately all the compacts with small sensors disappoint as there's always that nagging feeling of "wish I'd had a better camera with me when I saw that..." So I thought some sort of CSC with a pancake lens might fit the bill.
In the past I owned a Bessa R (M39 LTM) and various lenses but that's long gone so I wasn't looking for legacy lens compatibility.
Having looked very carefully at all the available CSC pankake options I decided on the Samsung 30mm and then found a body to mount it on.
Short end to a long story - my DSLR days are over, all cameras sold and I now have simple system of Samsung NX10 and NX20 bodies, 16mm, 30mm, 20-50mm and 50-200mm lenses. That's it, great image quality, small & light, does 95% of all the photos I'd want to take....ready to sell all those old big camera bags now

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Old 07-27-2012   #38
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I have the same lenses as Robin. I use them with an NX100.

The 16mm is good (with software adjustments on; distortion is high without), 30mm excellent (out of focus foreground areas can be a bit busy is my only issue) and the 20-50 and 50-200 are both better than typical kit-type lenses.

The NX100 sensor is the same as those in the 14MP Pentax SLRs. Colour is excellent up to 800 and it starts to show noise after that; I use 1600 and 3200 mostly for B&W. I do not like the rapid fall-off in the highlights, but that is common to most sensors and I prefer film for high-key. I would like to have in-body stabilisation.

OP: Starting a thread about cameras and lenses that you have never used made by a company whose products you will not buy seems an odd way to spend your spare time. Why not take up a hobby?
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Old 07-27-2012   #39
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Is it true that they are not selling? I mean, it is easy to say that they do not sell much in the US or in Europe but I always heard good things about them. It could be true (and if this is the case I guess it is marketing) but it could also be just a perception. Judging from this forum Olympus should be doing fine but we all know that economically the camera section of the company is not exactly doing great and the same applies unfortunately also to the (beloved to many) Leica.

GLF
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Old 08-19-2012   #40
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I would be interested in a Samsung, but I am looking for a mirrorless camera to work with my M lenses. That's why I started with a Nex and now have a Ricoh GXR.
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