Nikkor P.C 85mm f/2 questions

[kermaier]

BTW, mine is #403917 black barreled LTM.
::Ari

[DanOnRoute66]

A case where, I suspect, at least a few of the bidders knew more about the lens than the seller, considering it certainly isn't for a Leica and (without being able to see whether there's a "C" on the lens barrel) may not be for a Contax, either.

[menos]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

Ok, here we go. In order of release:

Occupied Type I - approx. 300 lenses. f2 - f16. chrome only. marked MIOJ and Tokyo. no click stops. s/n 8011 to 801295

Occupied Type II - approx. 1,200 -1,300 lenses. f2 -f16. chrome only. marked MIOJ and Tokyo. no click stops. s/n 9031 - 9031156 (odd numbering system)

Occupied Type III - approx. 400 - 500 lenses. f2 - f16. chrome only. most marked MIOJ and all marked Tokyo. no click stops. s/n 286400 - 287700

Hybrid - approx. 3,000 lenses. f2 - f16 (f32 on later lenses). chrome only. early ones marked MIOJ. later ones marked Made in Japan. Tokyo is replaced by Japan on later lenses. early ones have no click stops. click stops start to appear around 289545. small engraving difference separates these from the earlier type.

Regular version - 20,770 lenses. f2 - f32. black barrel and chrome barrel intermixed. click stops. marked Japan. s/n 289550 - 296749 and 396301 - 404612

Final version - approx. 1,500 lenses. f2 - f32. click stops. black aluminium barrel. marked Japan. s/n 496301 - 497821. only S-mount and Contax mount. no LTM version.

What is the knowledge about this version:

"Regular version - 20,770 lenses. f2 - f32. black barrel and chrome barrel intermixed. click stops. marked Japan. s/n 289550 - 296749 and 396301 − 404612"

I am quite interested, followed up several deals on such lenses.
Is the entire black lens barrel and control rings made of aluminum or is the regular brass lens painted?

What are the details on these black version "regular" 85/2 in LTM mount?

[furcafe]

Really 1930s technology, since the Nikkor-P's mechanics were just updates/upgrades of the Zeiss 8.5cm/2 Sonnar for the Contax.

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

Well, its 1940s technology so you have to accept these things. Double helicoid lenses didnt become the norm until later.

Congrats on the lens

[sp9107]

Originally Posted by menos

What is the knowledge about this version:

"Regular version - 20,770 lenses. f2 - f32. black barrel and chrome barrel intermixed. click stops. marked Japan. s/n 289550 - 296749 and 396301 − 404612"

I am quite interested, followed up several deals on such lenses.
Is the entire black lens barrel and control rings made of aluminum or is the regular brass lens painted?

What are the details on these black version "regular" 85/2 in LTM mount?

Bob Rotoloni has been tracking the serial numbers of Nikon rangefinders since the early 1970's. even after publishing his second book with the updated information, he still tracks the information. some is published in the NHS journals

[ferider]

Originally Posted by menos

What is the knowledge about this version:

"Regular version - 20,770 lenses. f2 - f32. black barrel and chrome barrel intermixed. click stops. marked Japan. s/n 289550 - 296749 and 396301 − 404612"

I am quite interested, followed up several deals on such lenses.
Is the entire black lens barrel and control rings made of aluminum or is the regular brass lens painted?

What are the details on these black version "regular" 85/2 in LTM mount?

I have black & chrome 397xxx in LTM, Dirk:



If there is aluminum on it, I don't see it; the black barrel is brassing nicely, and the front seems to be chromed brass as well. It is lighter than earlier all chrome versions that I had before though.

Roland.

[kermaier]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

I remember sending you some 48mm filters for your 85/2 two years ago (as per this thread). Your serial number is indeed a fairly early one, but from memory not from the first serial no. range. Nikon probably made the switch to click stops not that long after your lens.

FWIW, the older chrome LTM lens I had was #293137, and it had f/32 with click stops, and aperture settings marked only on one side of the barrel.

::Ari

[menos]

Originally Posted by ferider

I have black & chrome 397xxx in LTM, Dirk:



If there is aluminum on it, I don't see it; the black barrel is brassing nicely, and the front seems to be chromed brass as well. It is lighter than earlier all chrome versions that I had before though.

Roland.

That's now much clearer then.
So, the black version 1 85/2 is in fact a black enamel paint on brass lens with slight weight loss.

I had a seller claim his black lens barrel being made from aluminum, hence very lightweight, resulting me in dreaming about Carl-Zeiss pre war Sonnar lightweight (full aluminum barrel indeed).

Is the black paint version 1 reasonable to buy at current asking prices in excess of 1200 USD or is this money thrown to greedy dealers, catering to "might be" collectors?

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by menos

I had a seller claim his black lens barrel being made from aluminum, hence very lightweight, resulting me in dreaming about Carl-Zeiss pre war Sonnar lightweight (full aluminum barrel indeed).

Only the black final version (available in S-mount and C-mount only) has an aluminium barrel. Its noticeably lighter than previous versions.

All versions have the same optics, with incremental improvements made to coatings during the course of production.

[menos]

Thanks for the clarification Jon.

Roland has mentioned a small difference in weight between the chrome early lenses and the black paint brass lenses.

I can nowhere find any weight info - how much is the difference?

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by menos

I can nowhere find any weight info - how much is the difference?

I can look up the weights of the various S-mount lenses on Rotoloni's Nikon Rangefinder book when I get home tonight, but from memory the book has no such information on the LTM lenses.

[kermaier]

Originally Posted by menos

Thanks for the clarification Jon.

Roland has mentioned a small difference in weight between the chrome early lenses and the black paint brass lenses.

I can nowhere find any weight info - how much is the difference?

My example of the black LTM version weighs 365 grams (without caps).

I no longer have the chrome version -- perhaps someone who has one can contribute empirical data?

::Ari

[menos]

Thanks guys ;-)
This will do.

This site states 13oz (368.54 g) for the chrome sample in unspecified mount:
http://www.camerarepair.com/Used-Cam...ngefinder-P60/

So if there is a difference, it might be very little then.
In any case, the 85/2 weights in ~200g less than the 85/1.5, which makes the black paint version 1 sample in LTM quite interesting then ;-)

Anybody has both a 85/2 and a 85/1.5 Nikkor, to compare the lenses around ƒ2 ?

[jonmanjiro]

I just weighed my S-mount final version black 8.5cm f2. It weighs 338 grams.

Rotoloni's book lists the weight of the version before mine (first black S-mount version) at 377 grams, and all versions before that at 435 grams. These weights are for the S-mount versions.

My guess is that the S-mount version is about 12 grams heavier than the corresponding LTM version, so 365 grams for the final LTM version in black or chrome (as per Ari's data) and 423 grams for older versions.

[Vickko]

I love you guys. Please continue posting and talking about these old classic lenses.

I have a set of Nikon RF lenses and must admit that I use them far too infrequently.

Vick

[ferider]

Originally Posted by menos

Is the black paint version 1 reasonable to buy at current asking prices in excess of 1200 USD or is this money thrown to greedy dealers, catering to "might be" collectors?

I bought mine for US 400 or so a few years back, Dirk. US 1200 is a bit excessive, but then again, nowadays all Leica mount lenses are.

You might want to go for the Nikkor 10.5/2.5 instead, which still is quite affordable.

Roland.

[menos]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

I just weighed my S-mount final version black 8.5cm f2. It weighs 338 grams.

Rotoloni's book lists the weight of the version before mine (first black S-mount version) at 377 grams, and all versions before that at 435 grams. These weights are for the S-mount versions.

My guess is that the S-mount version is about 12 grams heavier than the corresponding LTM version, so 365 grams for the final LTM version in black or chrome (as per Ari's data) and 423 grams for older versions.

Thanks for confirming Jon ;-)
To be honest, I don't even have a kitchen scale handy to do this - haha.

Originally Posted by ferider

I bought mine for US 400 or so a few years back, Dirk. US 1200 is a bit excessive, but then again, nowadays all Leica mount lenses are.

You might want to go for the Nikkor 10.5/2.5 instead, which still is quite affordable.

Roland.

Roland, yes prices were indeed exploding for anything, attachable to a Leica. If some clever businessman would have figured out a way to market a "kitchen broom to M adapter", I feel, the market would be flooded by 1000 USD collectible pre war kitchen brooms, selling on eBay …

I actually do have a late Nikkor 105/2.5 LTM, but never really used it.
I got it at the same time, I bought my Canon 100/2 LTM and really prefer the Canon as of handling, speed and because it is such a fantastic lens all by itself.
I have to give that 105mm another run at some point.

[kermaier]

$1200 sounds excessive. If you have to have it now, I guess that's what it costs. If you're patient, I think you could find one in the $800 range.

[menos]

Originally Posted by kermaier

$1200 sounds excessive. If you have to have it now, I guess that's what it costs. If you're patient, I think you could find one in the $800 range.

Thanks - I have all the patience in the world with way too many lenses in that focal length

Did anybody compare the 85/1.5 Sonnar to the 85/2 in imaging?

[raid]

The thread led to my purchase of a Nikon 85mm/2 LTM a few minutes ago.

Thank you????

[kermaier]

Cool, Raid! I'm sure you'll like it.
Cheers,
Ari

[raid]

Thank you Ari.
I once had as loaners a Nikon 105 and an 85, and I bought the 105. Now I will have both.

[ornate_wrasse]

Originally Posted by raid

The thread led to my purchase of a Nikon 85mm/2 LTM a few minutes ago.

Raid,

Congratulations on your new acquisition!

If your lens did not come with a hood, and you want one, here's a tip for a hood for this lens:

The T-50-2 made by Canon fits the Nikkor 85 perfectly and can be bought on the big auction site relatively inexpensively.

I have that hood on my own Nikkor 85.

Enjoy the lens!

Ellen

[kermaier]

Originally Posted by ornate_wrasse

The T-50-2 made by Canon fits the Nikkor 85 perfectly and can be bought on the big auction site relatively inexpensively.

The Canon hood for the 85/1.9 also works very nicely, and is a bit more compact, I believe. (Also, I have 2 for sale in the RFF classifieds, but that's a coincidence. )

::Ari

[raid]

Originally Posted by ornate_wrasse

Raid,

Congratulations on your new acquisition!

If your lens did not come with a hood, and you want one, here's a tip for a hood for this lens:

The T-50-2 made by Canon fits the Nikkor 85 perfectly and can be bought on the big auction site relatively inexpensively.

I have that hood on my own Nikkor 85.

Enjoy the lens!

Ellen

Thank you, Ellen. I may already have such a lens hood somewhere in "the closet". Once I get the lens, I will try things out.

Raid