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28mm for a Minolta CLE?
Old 10-12-2005   #1
Chaser
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28mm for a Minolta CLE?

Well, after a mild bout of gas and a good deal (crossing fingers) on a Minolta CLE i find myself with a major question... I bought the CLE, which i have yet to recieve so this may be a bit premature, for one specific reason, My M6 is a 0.85 mag finder version and it lacks the 28mm framelines of the lower mag finders. So the reason, in my mind, to have a CLE is its ability to use a 28mm lens convieniantly. So this brings forth the question of what 28mm lenses will work appropriatly on a CLE. It seems to me the the best lens for price/speed/qulity per dollar value would be 28mm f1.9 Ultron. Does anyone know if this lens would work on a CLE, or will its size block out too much of the frame-rf window.
The other lenses that come to mind are:

Kobalux/Bower/Avenon (but this lens is hard to come by)
M-hexanon with the same Kobalux problem
M-Rokkor
New Zeiss Biogon
or
the skopar (i would rather have f2.8 or faster though)

Sorry to be neurotic....i am thinking into the future and i always have the desire to be one step ahead of my gas...so any advice on 28mm's for a cle would be much appreciated.
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Old 10-12-2005   #2
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I do not have a CLE, but I have to guess that the Ultron will block at least part of the viewfinder on that small camera. Check the specs, I think the ZM Biogon is about the size of a 50 Summicron and 35 Ultron with hood if you can get a hold of those lenses to compare/try.

Remember, 3.5 is only a half stop slower than 2.8. That said, it is really nice to have a fast 28mm lens.
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Old 10-12-2005   #3
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I have a CLE and the CV 28/3.5 (as well as the Hex 28). The CLE/CV 28/3.5 is an incredible combination, especially for street shooting.

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Old 10-12-2005   #4
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Chaser, you might be best off addressing this question to Stephen Gandy of www.cameraquest.com. He has a full page discussion of the CLE, including a list of lenses that work with it & those that don't. (Unfortunately this report pre-dates the Zeiss ZM lenses.) He recommends the CV 28 Ultron or Skopar over the M-Rokkor because of the Rokkor's tendency to develop spots. He feels that this problem makes it a risk to buy the Rokkor, given its age. However, given Rover's admonition, I would also ask him how much of the viewfinder is blocked by the Ultron because it is a big lens. The Kobalux is also a big lens. By the way, the same lens can be found under the Adorama label & Adorama had one for sale in the recent past.

Like Ray, I have the Skopar & like it very much. Its compact size seems to be a perfect match for the CLE. Fast film can make up for the speed differential in dim lighting. Its build quality is one of the best of Cosina's Voigtlander line.

The Zeiss Biogon is actually a little shorter than the 50 Summicron - 37.7 mm vs 43.5 mm, but I would guess that it is also a little wider. At least the filter is - 46 mm vs 43 mm. Unfortunately, Zeiss does not publish lens diameters for the ZM lenses. My bigger concern with the Biogon is the depth to which it protrudes into the body & whether this is a problem with the CLE. Stephen should be able to answer both of these questions for you because he is a dealer for the ZM lenses & knows the CLE. He is very responsive to inquiries

Good luck.
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Old 10-12-2005   #5
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Chaser,

Since I just bought a CL, I've been doing some reading on the CL and CLE. One thing that is mentioed in several places is that the 28mm M Rokkor will bring up the wrong framelines when mounted on another M camera. If the reverse is true, this may mean that you'll need to be careful on purchasing another 28mm lens to mount on the CLE, I can't find an answer to that question.
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Old 10-12-2005   #6
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Hello, first post for me, but a topic near and dear to my heart.

I have a website at home that lists current Leica lenses that will fit on the CLE and I will update this post this evening unless someone references it prior to then. I do know that there is only minor rangefinder intrusion and perfect fit by the latest Leica summicron m 28 f2.0 asph (1/5th intrusion listed in the referenced article) and that the Leica elmarit m 90 f2.8 is supposed to fit with no interference. I am still waiting on the right Leica 90 to fall into my lap, so I have not confirmed that lense's value as a replacement for the Rokkor 90 f4.0.
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Old 10-12-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP/CLE
Hello, first post for me, but a topic near and dear to my heart.

I have a website at home that lists current Leica lenses that will fit on the CLE and I will update this post this evening unless someone references it prior to then. I do know that there is only minor rangefinder intrusion and perfect fit by the latest Leica summicron m 28 f2.0 asph (1/5th intrusion listed in the referenced article) and that the Leica elmarit m 90 f2.8 is supposed to fit with no interference. I am still waiting on the right Leica 90 to fall into my lap, so I have not confirmed that lense's value as a replacement for the Rokkor 90 f4.0.
I was googling "minolta cle" and this came up as a site:

http://cesarigd.club.fr/photoe2cleo.htm and the title of the piece is "Compatibility of the Leica M lenses with the Minolta CLE and the Leica CL". Good luck. I love my CLE and the Leica lenses, but I also love my MP and M7... something about the CLE is really special... the size, maybe the way it fits in the hand... and it is certainly the fact that it can use my favorite leica lenses...
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Old 10-14-2005   #8
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I own a CLE and use the 28/2.8 Hexanon. The only drawback is the shade partially blocks the RF image mostly at close distances. The CV 28/3.5 is a perfect match for the CLE in terms of handling and size. CV 28/3.5 optics are great but build quality and optics of the Leica, Konica and probably Zeiss are at the very top.
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Old 10-14-2005   #9
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Thanks everybody, I wmailed Steven Gandy and got a quick reply that the Ultron does work but does invade a little ... i may be on the lookout for a skopar
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Old 10-17-2005   #10
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There is such a good choice of 28's its definately difficut to decide. I wouldnt go with the Ultron however, its just too large on a CLE. I would probably go with the new Biogon, its supposed to be as good as Leicas Elmarit for $800 USD its quite good value. Consider a clean Rokkor 28 as well, they now can be had for exceptionally little money, I saw one go for 275 USD so there are bargains to be had with them. As someone mentioned above a Leica/Konica/Zeiss Biogon 28 will bring up the 90mm framelines in a CLE BUT the 28mm framelines are always visible and the 90mm framelines are so tiny and insignificant they wont get in the way anyways. If you do decide on one of the Voigtlanders you can get a 35/135mm M Adapter and it wont bring up the 90mm Framelines. The Skopar 28 f3.5 is a good little lens and size wise fits on the CLE very well, but now that prices of the original Rokkor have dropped I would go with that lens and its slightly faster too instead of the Skopar. The Voigtlanders paint wears off pretty quickly, thats the main flaw that comes to mind with them.
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Old 10-17-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awilder
The CV 28/3.5 is a perfect match for the CLE in terms of handling and size. CV 28/3.5 optics are great but build quality and optics of the Leica, Konica and probably Zeiss are at the very top.
Build quality of the CV 28/3.5 is superb, definitely a step up in class from the early CV lenses.
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Old 10-17-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
I would probably go with the new Biogon, its supposed to be as good as Leicas Elmarit for $800 USD its quite good value.

Consider a clean Rokkor 28 as well, they now can be had for exceptionally little money, I saw one go for 275 USD so there are bargains to be had with them.
The Biogon is a unique design & intrudes inside the camera more than most. I'd make sure that this is not a problem for the CLE before buying it. Just a precaution.

A clean Rokkor would be good . . . as long as you are sure that it's clean.

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Old 10-17-2005   #13
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Here are some images of the CLE with a CV 28 and a Hex 28 (please forgive any quality issues—definitely not porn) Note: the hex is shadeless :



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Old 10-17-2005   #14
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I think the CV 28 is one of their most intriguing lenses, mostly because it's so compact. I really fancy one for my CL, but would love to see more user reports...
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Old 10-27-2005   #15
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/7431278...in/set-821342/

and

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7431278...in/set-821342/

were both made with a CV 28/3.5 on a CLE using Ilford XP2 Super. Bright morning daylight shots.

I bought the 28 figuring I wouldn't need it for low light. It's very sharp and has good tonality and color rendition, but not quite the character of the M-Rokkor 40/2 or 90/4. Couldn't find a good Minolta 28/2.8 at a decent price.

Though I haven't used earlier CV lenses, the 28/3.5 build quality seems good but not equal to the precision and smoothness of the Minolta M lenses.

I use it with a CV 35/135 adapter, which allows the CLE finder to default to showing the 28mm lines only.
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Old 10-30-2005   #16
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"Though I haven't used earlier CV lenses, the 28/3.5 build quality seems good but not equal to the precision and smoothness of the Minolta M lenses."

I would have to disagree with his statement. I have both the Minolta 28 and the Voigtlander 28 f3.5 but there is no difference in smoothness between them really. If anything the Voigtlander has a heavier more precise feel.
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Old 10-30-2005   #17
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[quote=Joe Brugger
the 28 is very sharp and has good tonality and color rendition, but not quite the character of the M-Rokkor 40/2 or 90/4. [/QUOTE]

I wouldn't fall into the trap of comparing the character of lenses of different focal lengths. Just my 2 cents . . .

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Old 10-31-2005   #18
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When you are using multiple lenses on a single project, it helps that they all have the same general "signature." The Voigtlander lenses give a more clinical or technical rendition than the M-Rokkors ... more Nikon-like than Leica-like, for a more general comparison. Certain lens families from specific manufacturers do share common characteristics on color rendition, contrast, resolution and so on -- that's the point I wanted to make.

As far as feel, my VC 25/3.5 (bought new) takes substantially more finger pressure to focus than the 40/2 has ever had. It could be it varies from sample to sample. Or it could be that Paleoboy has a particularly tight Rokkor 28.
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