Did LF prices go up?

[Vickko]

It seems they have gone up.

Case in point, the 150mm APO-Sironar-S lens price seems way high. Currently $900 to $1K used, when I sold mine in 2008 for $450.

Any distinct reasons why?

Resurgence of film?

Somehow I don't think it is because of LF digital backs, is it?


regards,
Vick

[Trius]

I don't think it's because of digital backs, but who knows. I've noticed this too, particularly with the Fujinon 240A. They used to sell around $300 ~$400, but now they are a fair bit higher, up to $700 for mint.

My sense is that there has been a rising interest in large format film work, but that's just speculation.

[BTMarcais]

It seems like whenever I'm ready to actually buy something, prices go up.
So feel free to blame me.

-Brian

[Pablito]

not just the lenses, the cameras.

Just before the digital era really took off a very nice crown graphic could be had for $250 with lens. Not now.

[maddoc]

LF is the only way to still be able using TXP320 and ASTIA, do we see a renaissance of LF photography ?

[redisburning]

Im about to go LF myself.

it is what it is, every time I want to buy into a system the prices skyrocket.

[Nando]

I bought my 90mm Grandagon-N and 210mm APO-Sironar-N on the used market for $375 and $250 respectively. I took a quick look at prices for my 90mm and 210mm and it seems that prices have more than doubled from the time I bought my lenses a year ago. Some asking prices are even 3 times what I paid! I was lucky.

At the time B&H and Badger Graphic were selling the 90mm for around $1500 new and the 210mm for around $1000. The used lenses I bought were in mint condition and the latest versions. I could not believe the huge difference in price between new and used lenses. Perhaps a few other people noticed this too resulting in an increase in used prices?? I see that Badger Graphic is now offering the 90mm for almost $2000 while the 210 is still around $1000.

Old storied lenses like Dagors, Cookes and Heliars commanded crazy prices. I still think that a lot of the modern lenses on the used markets are bargains compared to the old stuff.

[maddoc]

Hm ... I paid US$180 for my Fujinon 180/5.6 and about US$270 for my Grandagon 90/6.8...

[Trius]

For a short-ish long lens on 4x5 (~240) with some "character", I've taken to looking at "antique" barrel lenses and trying to find a shutter to fit. If I want something more "modern" in shutter, I've concluded that KEH or other reputable but reasonable sellers are better than the auction place.

[bugmenot]

I don't think there is such a thing commercially available for professional and amateur photographers known as a Large Format Digital Back.

[graywolf]

Collectors, idiots, and some shooters.

Film is actually increasing in use, even Kodak says their film division is making money these days.

But when you think of it, all those professional photo studios that have gone to digital, and rightly so for commercial work, have dumped their LF cameras over the past few years, so you would think that there are 10 LF cameras out there for every one wanting one.

But if you go over there on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum you will see all kinds of people bragging about their 18 cameras and 64 lenses. They think they are photographers, but they are really collectors. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I have 6 folding roll film cameras myself, but if these guys each buy 12 cameras there is a shortage for the rest of us.

I have been happy with one lens for my Crown Graphic, and would be more than happy with 3 for my recently acquired monorail. However, others are not happying unless they have 10-12 210mm lenses in their collection. So they are driving the prices of LF lenses up.

Then there are those guys new to LF who are buying stuff, having no idea what it is actually worth, and paying 2-3 times as much as they were going for. Of course that helps drive prices up too.

Next you have those eBay opportunists. You know the guys with a BIN pice of 5-10x the going price. Some of the buyers in the previous paragraph see those prices and think that is what things are worth.

And finally, with all the losses people have had in the stock and futures markets they are buying stuff they think will increase in collectors value instead of their usual investments. As they do not really know what they are doing, they are going to lose their butts again, but they have more money than sense, so there is nothing new about that.

However, there are still bargains out there. Craigs list is a good place to look if you are in a big city. On eBay you still can occasionally find an honest seller who is not lying about the conditions of what they are selling (I had 9 items not as described in a row this past winter). However, those sources require a lot of patience to get a good deal from. I have found quite often that I get better deals from dealers websites than from Craigs or eBay.

Color film has shot up quite a bit in the past 2-3 years, some B&W is still reasonable, especially from the smaller manufactures. But in the film photography world things are not going to go back to the low prices we saw 3, 4, 5 years ago.

[OwenStegemann]

I figured it was Alec Soth's fault.

[DominikDUK]

Funny I am member of the LFforum and only own four lf lenses, there are plenty of real photographers on that site (Frank Petronio, CJ Broadbent, etc..), mixed with collectors. Photographers can be collectors as well see Emil Schildt who is both. But I think your right collectors destroyed the market for low priced antique LF lenses.

Dominik

[kuzano]

Over that time, I amassed a fair number of film camera's 35mm, Medium Format, and LF...

All good name and model film cameras are rising in price. LF is the best rise over the last 3-4 years.

Resurgence in film.. yes. Also count in there a bigger market. Well over half of my LF sales have been to International buyers. In fact the last 4 LF sales have been to Federation of Russia, plus other sales to Eastern Bloc countries. Do I sell International.... You Damn Right I do... very carefully. The buyers are not currently in the US.

Striking example of insane prices. Two weeks ago a very tired Toyo 45A (no lens, body only) with significant wear and the bellows crumpled with misfolds on BOTH ends sold on eBay for $681, and had over 30 bids. 3-4 years ago I could buy near mint, boxed 45A's for $350 to $400.

Lenses are the same.

Film in various emulsions seems to be readily available in 4X5 AND 8X10.

8X10 and larger (ULF) are very hot right now. Interestingly, craigslist sellers are not up to speed, and if I were going into LF, I would do diligent and repeated searching on eBay. I occasionallly turn an eBay camera into a good deal. Or, I would monitor 3 or 4 Craigslist boards in larger communities.

As the hot dog vendor says... "Get em while they're hot folks!"

[Vickko]

Wow, kuzano. I also agree, much of my high end sales are going to Asia. But interesting to know that from your stats, LF has been the largest increase in value.

Very intriguing indeed.

Vick

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by DominikDUK

Funny I am member of the LFforum and only own four lf lenses, there are plenty of real photographers on that site (Frank Petronio, CJ Broadbent, etc..), mixed with collectors. Photographers can be collectors as well see Emil Schildt who is both. But I think your right collectors destroyed the market for low priced antique LF lenses.

Dominik

Of course, I exaggerated for effect, but there are enough people there with far more equipment than they could ever use that makes it feel like that.

In fact, monorail cameras and reasonably contemporary lenses are still reasonably inexpensive, especially when you compare them to the price of new ones. Really nice press cameras are getting pretty high, but you can still pick up something usable for $100 if you keep your eye out long enough. If one is lucky he may run into someone who just wants to know his old gear is going to get used. When that happens you may get thousands of dollars worth of gear for free.

The fact is that there are no hard and fast rules to go by.

[dap]

Originally Posted by graywolf

But if you go over there on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum you will see all kinds of people bragging about their 18 cameras and 64 lenses. They think they are photographers, but they are really collectors.

Hmmm...that is so unlike this forum .

[dap]

Originally Posted by Nando

Old storied lenses like Dagors, Cookes and Heliars commanded crazy prices. I still think that a lot of the modern lenses on the used markets are bargains compared to the old stuff.

Your not kidding. I think these old birds have gotten really popular due to digital - almost like a backlash against "perfect" computer designed lenses. A lot of them do offer very unique looks that seem to strike a chord with people (everything old is new again). Normally I'm the type to ***-*** all the talk about special "looks" that certain lenses have, but even I have to admit that some of these babies do offer character in *****s (more so than any leica lens I have ever seen). Unfortunately, al lot of these things are pushing 100yrs old so I imagine that not many have survived - those that have seem to pass from collector to collector and are way out of my price range. That being said there are still deals to be had if you avoid the big names.

[sienarot]

If LF prices are going up, then someone needs to get the word out! I'm selling my Cambo monorail set up and lenses and nobody's biting

[nonuniform]

Yeah, it's ALL collectors. Super annoying if you really want to shoot film!

Crown and Speed Graphics are particularly popular right now, as are any old lenses.

The interesting thing is the resurgence of interest in alternative photo processes such as tin type. There's a place here in the Mission in San Francisco that specializes in shooting tin type photos. 60 bucks a pop. That sounds like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, not really. Nice work too.

Originally Posted by graywolf

Collectors, idiots, and some shooters.

Film is actually increasing in use, even Kodak says their film division is making money these days.

But when you think of it, all those professional photo studios that have gone to digital, and rightly so for commercial work, have dumped their LF cameras over the past few years, so you would think that there are 10 LF cameras out there for every one wanting one.

But if you go over there on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum you will see all kinds of people bragging about their 18 cameras and 64 lenses. They think they are photographers, but they are really collectors. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I have 6 folding roll film cameras myself, but if these guys each buy 12 cameras there is a shortage for the rest of us.

I have been happy with one lens for my Crown Graphic, and would be more than happy with 3 for my recently acquired monorail. However, others are not happying unless they have 10-12 210mm lenses in their collection. So they are driving the prices of LF lenses up.

Then there are those guys new to LF who are buying stuff, having no idea what it is actually worth, and paying 2-3 times as much as they were going for. Of course that helps drive prices up too.

Next you have those eBay opportunists. You know the guys with a BIN pice of 5-10x the going price. Some of the buyers in the previous paragraph see those prices and think that is what things are worth.

And finally, with all the losses people have had in the stock and futures markets they are buying stuff they think will increase in collectors value instead of their usual investments. As they do not really know what they are doing, they are going to lose their butts again, but they have more money than sense, so there is nothing new about that.

However, there are still bargains out there. Craigs list is a good place to look if you are in a big city. On eBay you still can occasionally find an honest seller who is not lying about the conditions of what they are selling (I had 9 items not as described in a row this past winter). However, those sources require a lot of patience to get a good deal from. I have found quite often that I get better deals from dealers websites than from Craigs or eBay.

Color film has shot up quite a bit in the past 2-3 years, some B&W is still reasonable, especially from the smaller manufactures. But in the film photography world things are not going to go back to the low prices we saw 3, 4, 5 years ago.

[V-12]

I've been watching Ebay on and off for over a year thinking about buying a 5x4 camera again. Two good lenses doing nothing on the shelf made it tempting, but I kept putting it off. In the last six weeks I decided to go for it, only to find the prices were a good bit higher than when I started my browsing. I ended up with an MPP that I firmly believe would have been a 33% cheaper this time last year.

[z.bruce.li]

It seems lots of newcomers to LF want a press/field camera with coupled rangefinder, an Aero Ektar or similar large aperture lens for OoF rendition, and Grafmatic holder for rapid action. I admire those made it work handheld, but for me it is far from practical. I think LF equipment fall in this category enjoyed the most price hikes.

Another segment seeing rapid price rise is vintage lenses with character, as others mentioned above. All the Petzvals, Heliars, soft focus, etc etc. I do like them and will keep them like many other LF shooters so I can see why demand is surpassing supply nowadays.

On the other hand, the price for contemporary LF lenses and monorails are actually dropping quite steadily. I would say there is a big surplus of those modern 90/8, 150/5.6, 210/5.6 lenses since not many people are buying at all.