Summicron 50 DR or 1970 for BW?

[alexnotalex]

Please help me spend my money. Heart and head unsure so far.

The DR is an great choice, but 1970 is my birth year and that tickles my ego.

I'm trawling forums and flickr and examining "favourite Cron" and "bad rap" threads, but I still can't decide between the two.

I'm seeing great and subtle differences on both sides in terms of ergonomics, glass, flare control, resolution, corners, weight, focus throw, minimum focus, etc... and I understand those features, but its' the image that counts.

I have found great BW shots from the DR; sharp, contrasty, great depth, shadow detail etc. (thanks to may forum members here.)

but haven't really found many from the 1970 version... it seems easier to get great examples of colour shots, which are legion.

So, advice please. And could any 1970 version 'cron shooters help by posting some mind-blowing BW shots from this lens?

Many thanks,
Alex

[peterm1]

I have owned both. There is no doubt that the DR is a wonderful lens. Its build quality is just heaven. Sensational. But it is noticeably lower in contrast than the 1970 lens. Both are sharp. It really depends on what you want. I used to think that the 1970 rendering was better - the contrast gave it more "clarity" and definition. Now I am not so sure. I have decided that like the 1950s rendering of the DR in mono. But in color something with less contrast has advantages. I sold mine - not through any dissatisfaction but rather because I does not work on an M8 unless moded and I did not want to butcher it just for that purpose, believing that a lens this good should stay as God and the angels meant it to be :^) And I could not afford to own both and an M8 so one had to go.

[helenhill]

Both Stellar in their Rendering
Different Looks though Both are Sharp

The DR can have that Classic Old World Glow / heavier in weight / Beautiful in OOF bokeh
The 1970 v3 I believe starts to get a Tad more Modern...Quite Lovely indeed

Can't go wrong with Either

[helenhill]

1970 version 50 cron in fact
a Twinkle in Your Eye.... by helenhill@flickr, on Flickr

[helenhill]

1970 v3 cron
spying on each other.... by helenhill@flickr, on Flickr

[BobYIL]

Any 50mm Summicron is an excellent choice; even the first one the collapsible as it exhibits smoother bokeh than any other one. DR and Rigid are favorite choices for some due to their a tad lower contrast. The third formula has modern rendering, improved contrast. The last formula has the best sharpness corner to corner. Go with any of these versions, you will be pleased.

[d_c]

With regards to image quality, either lens would be fantastic and perfectly able to surpass my ability as a photographer.

Even though the DR is a piece of mechanical art, I would probably choose the later lens as it would be slightly lighter, and as it has the later hard coatings would hopefully be more resistant to damage in use.

[alexnotalex]

thanks everyone for the thoughtful advice and pics Helen.
The middle child is whispering in my ear...

[dreamsandart]

The DR Summicron was my first Leica lens. Its beautifully built as everyone knows and a fine performer. With the optical unit in place it focuses to a close 19 inches (1 meter without), which is a nice option, but you need to carry the unit and take the time to put it on.

The person that got me into Leica had the '69', 11817, 2nd rigid or 3rd overall Summicron (whatever you choose to call it) and I felt it had advantages and eventually made it my standard 50mm Summicron using it for the past 40 years. It focuses to .7 meter which is close enough for me without the hassles of an extra optical unit, doesn't have a brass mount, but is much lighter and never had a complaint about its built quality. At the time it was made and explained to me by a Leica Rep, Leica lens design philosophy was towards higher contrast which gave the perception of a sharper image, also using fewer glass lens elements which with the coatings of the time helped with contrast and flare, and production costs.

What I like about the '69'? A smooth traditional longer throw to the focus. Very smooth aperture ring action and 10 blade round aperture opening. Higher contrast than the previous versions without being super-high modern, a nice compromise compared to the newer modern lenses. Beautiful color (and B&W). Compact and light weight. A solid metal [real] lens hood that protects and helps with flare, reverses with an easy clip-on/off. Very good optically across the frame and from close-up to farther distance. The only weakness is it can be prone to veiled flare with strong light sources just outside the frame. Even after all these years using this lens, I sometimes have to sit back and am amazed at the beautiful image it can make.

Of course any version 50mm Summicron will challenge a photographer to use it to its full potential.

[richardhkirkando]

I've had a v3 'cron for about a week, and I'm pretty impressed. Even though people say its the least sharp version, it's still pretty clearly the sharpest (and highest resolving) lens I own. From a purely technical standpoint, its still a very impressive lens. Really though, I don't think you can go wrong either way.


Scan-120510-0020.jpg by richardhkirkando, on Flickr

[Penzes]

I like the Dual Range Summicron for rendering and sharpness. Ergonomically is the Dual Range a bit less than the normal Summicron from the same period, or the 70-is version.

Some shots with the Dual Range:


table check [shot through the window] by Istvan Penzes, on Flickr


Lucas by Istvan Penzes, on Flickr

[mfogiel]

I do not have the later Summicron, but the DR for B&W is indeed wonderful. It will render particularly well when coupled with a wide latitude film like Tri X:

20093503 by mfogiel, on Flickr

20114517 by mfogiel, on Flickr

Wide open, it is not as sharp as modern 50mm lenses, but the bokeh is quite remarkable:

20091403 by mfogiel, on Flickr

and when you use middle apertures and shoot with care, the sharpness and low contrast create an etching like effect:

2008060219 by mfogiel, on Flickr

[alexnotalex]

Thanks once more for the pics. I had a look around the flickr summicron 50.III group as well... the DR seems to have an edge for BW, or maybe there are fewer vIIIs around.

My Canon 1.8 surprised me the other day at f2. But I still feel that a summicron would give a little more bite.

[Vincent.G]

I only had the 50 cron DR. This was on Tri-X and HC-110.


Ascension by Vincentの平和、愛および喜び, on Flickr

[Justin Viiret]

I haven't had the later 'cron, but I've had two DR's (the first one had a terribly etched rear element) and one rigid summicron, which performed identically. They're brilliant lenses for B&W work, and I really rather like them in colour too (though I shoot far less of that on film).

Summicron DR @ f2, Fuji Reala.

Escaping the frame by inaudible, on Flickr

Summicron DR, Ilford FP4+.

Cherry Picking by inaudible, on Flickr

[alexnotalex]

Fabulous Justin, i'm loving the depth and crisp rendering of the DR, and that's the quality i'm after. Can't think of the words to describe "sharp" (maybe its the resolution or the microcontrast i'm never sure...) and the light and your skill is what really counts of course!

but that's what i want.

Now, a similar shot from the vIII anyone?

[Drago]

Originally Posted by helenhill

1970 version 50 cron in fact
a Twinkle in Your Eye.... by helenhill@flickr, on Flickr

wow... nice portrait

[hipsterdufus]

Some great shots in this thread. Ended up favoriting a couple on flickr. I've got a DR Cron that's at Focal Point right now getting its front element recoated. These shots make me impatient for it to get into my hands...

[alexnotalex]

the DR is definitely in the lead in terms of sharp BW...

c'mon vIII, show us some like Justin's, i'm sure my birth year cron can do it...

(and a huge thanks to all who have contributed)
alex

[alexnotalex]

any takers for some compelling v.3 BW shots?

[alexnotalex]

On second thoughts, maybe I have the vintage lens already - Canon f1.8 - and I should modernise?

would still love to see more '69 cron BW shots though...

[helenhill]

Just in case YOU get the 'Color' Itch ... Club Cielo... by helenhill@flickr, on Flickr

[helenhill]

Jeez I can't be the Only owner of a V3...
Swingin' on Memorial Day Coney Island by helenhill@flickr, on Flickr

[helenhill]

Oh Hey 'DRAGO'...Forgot to say THANKS Much for your Lovely Comment
Final V3 shot

[malland]

Originally Posted by helenhill

Oh Hey 'DRAGO'...Forgot to say THANKS Much for your Lovely Comment
Final V3 shot

That's a great portrait Helen. Now, if the Leica M Monochrom could prodcue this look...

—Mitch/Bangkok
Days and Nights in the Forest (WIP)