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Leica X2 Revisited
Old 05-12-2012   #1
dave lackey
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Leica X2 Revisited

Not sure where this should go but as a follow-up on the X2 thread, I thought I would revisit the specs, etc. on the new Leica X2.

My first confusion with the X2 announcement was:

-Same old 2.8 lens when most everyone was expecting a faster lens, anywhere from a Lux to a Cron.

Revisit: I see that the ISO has been upped to 12,500.

My second confusion was:

-Much higher price.

Revisit: B&H has the X2 listed at the same $1995 price as the X1 has been since it's introduction.

My third confusion:

The Viewfinder is still external:

Revisit: The EVF is listed at a high price, well over $500 at B&H. But, it appears nothing keeps one from using pretty much any external VF. I have an old 35mm VF that works perfectly well on the X1 (tried this out in February) and, I may be wrong, but it looks as if it will work on the X2. This does allow for a smaller package overall than if a larger in-camera VF was designed into the body....so, not such a bad deal after all.

FINAL SUMMARY after Revisit:

I think the higher ISO, revised flash, higher resolution, optional EVF, and silver color in place of the grey, doubling of internal memory and burst rate, all being included in the same $1995 price is pretty good. That is my opinion only as it represents a decent evolution of the X1.

Sure, I had visions of a mini-M, but realize now, that there most likely will be a mini-M at a higher price coming down the road.... or not...but that is okay as the X1 makes awesome images. Cannot wait to see the real-world results from the X2.
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Old 05-12-2012   #2
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I'd still take an X100 over the X2 at $800-$1k cheaper. Plus you get a built-in OVF.
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Old 05-12-2012   #3
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Sure, I can buy a Toyota Camry for half a Mercedes Benz E-350. But, then , we already know that and I love Toyota products. I just don't drive Toyotas anymore, though.

We all have our buying preferences and there is nothing wrong with that.

I would appreciate keeping the discussion on the X2 in this thread and not about comparison with all the other cameras in the world as there are many threads already on RFF doing that and it won't add to the body of knowledge about the X2 at all. thanks,
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Old 05-12-2012   #4
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I just finished listening to the podcast with Jono Slack on seriouscompacts.com about the new Leica releases this week. He confirms the X2 is a true upgrade with auto-focus on par with the latest m4/3 Olympus releases like the OM-D E-M5, which is pretty fast indeed. I share your view on what we hoped for, but this still seems like a pretty good evolution of the system.
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Old 05-12-2012   #5
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Would I change anything on the X2?

Oddly, the only thing I would change at the moment are:

1. Ditch the EVF...it really does not add anything for me.

2. Replace the flash with a plain top cover that has real Leica engraving just like on the IIIF sitting here on my desk.

In fact, I am trying to really get my mind around the X-series. To me, it is the modern equivalent of the III cameras and anything that brings them closer to a modern interpretation of the original Barnack in design, feel, and operation is fine with me.

And, maybe, just maybe ditch the lens in favor of something really cool like a Perar flat lens so that the camera remains small and fits in a pocket.
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Old 05-12-2012   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippiejee View Post
I just finished listening to the podcast with Jono Slack on seriouscompacts.com about the new Leica releases this week. He confirms the X2 is a true upgrade with auto-focus on par with the latest m4/3 Olympus releases like the OM-D E-M5, which is pretty fast indeed. I share your view on what we hoped for, but this still seems like a pretty good evolution of the system.

Yes, on revisit, I am okay with it...now if I can just get a job.

For future reference, I will be comparing X2 images with these:

http://www.flickriver.com/groups/lei...l/interesting/
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Old 05-12-2012   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippiejee View Post
I just finished listening to the podcast with Jono Slack on seriouscompacts.com about the new Leica releases this week. He confirms the X2 is a true upgrade with auto-focus on par with the latest m4/3 Olympus releases like the OM-D E-M5, which is pretty fast indeed. I share your view on what we hoped for, but this still seems like a pretty good evolution of the system.

Hey, thanks for the link...will listen to it tonight and also, I hope to spend some time on the SC site.

After looking at your flickr images, I am very pleased with what you have there. Really enjoyed it and gives me a lot to think about in how to actually use a 35mm viewpoint.
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Old 05-12-2012   #8
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Here is a hands-on review of the X2 you may want to look at:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/05/11/leica-review-1/
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Old 05-12-2012   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnitzer View Post
Here is a hands-on review of the X2 you may want to look at:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/05/11/leica-review-1/
Yes, thanks!
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Old 05-12-2012   #10
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I have to admit that I really enjoyed the X1 when I used one for a year. The X2 having fast AF makes me think about it, but I'm not into external VFs these days. Optical ext VFs are not consistent with AF cameras. And that external EVF is not my type of thing. It is a super light take anywhere camera though. I use the X100 for this function these days... But the X2 is better than I initially thought too.
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Old 05-13-2012   #11
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I admit to be a little "confused" now! Having the x1 since longer than one year (and being satisfied) I know the benefits of the small camera, but I also know the limitations. Some of which still are in the x2. I do not know the price where I live yet but anyway I will not upgrade from 1 to 2. Honestly from one side I'm disappointed, from the other side it is ok that I will not spend more money!
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Old 05-15-2012   #12
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That quicker AF changes everything though. It's still gotta be the best IQ for a tiny camera.
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Old 05-15-2012   #13
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i think it is very difficult to analyse the pros and cons of a new release on a basis that does not compare it to its competitors in the market. its of course only my opinion, but this camera judged on its specs alone seems in many ways to not take advantage of technologies its competitors do, and that seems pretty inexcusable at this price point. judging it in a vacuum, or against the previous incarnation that is also outdated technologically, may lead to a different conclusion that provides more comfort for its purchasers.
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Old 05-15-2012   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
i think it is very difficult to analyse the pros and cons of a new release on a basis that does not compare it to its competitors the rest of the market. its of course only my opinion, but this camera judged on its specs alone seems in many ways to not take advantage of technologies its competitors do, and that seems pretty inexcusable at this price point. judging it in a vacuum, or against the previous incarnation that is also outdated technologically, may lead to a different conclusion that provides more comfort for its purchasers.
tony
Sorry, Tony, but have you used one extensively? I have used an X1 for hundreds of photos over the past few months and John owned one. Like you, I started with expecting all the new technology and was underwhelmed when some of it was bypassed. After thinking about it and reading the specs, I am happy with the X2....

I am also happy with the X1 and, as with any camera, it has it's strengths and weaknesses. I chose to use a loaner until I can afford to buy two (2), yes, two used ones because the camera just plain works for me. I can see where the increased value added at the same price will make the X2 even better than what I have experienced this year with the X1. I do not compare my choice of cameras with anything else....I have already made the choice.

John, on the other hand, owned one for a year and as a previous owner, he knows what he likes as far as future evolutions of the X camera. I agree as well.

However, with my non-existent budget, I will be happy with a couple of X1 bodies in the future. For now, I get a loaner, I shoot, I am happy. YMMV. That's okay!
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Old 05-15-2012   #15
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i hope you can get one soon dave! i'm sure you'll make great images with it. using tools one feels comfortable with makes a real difference in the quality of the final product.

as for my lack of experience in using this particular tool, it was not really relevent to my point. the lack of a vf alone disqualifies it for me personally. 2.8 is also a nonstarter for me; upping the top iso is not relevent to me personally in this regard.

anyway, hope you get yours soon.
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Old 05-15-2012   #16
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Thanks, Tony... the VF thing is an issue with me up to a point as I hate losing the compactness with an external VF and I will never love live view. The 2.8 lens is reasonably good so I work around it and have gotten good results.

Since you mentioned it, I would love to see a manually collapsible 2.0 or faster lens. Never liked the automatic collapsibles. I dunno...glad nobody hired me to help in design decisions.

Hey, you're in New York, right? There are so many of you guys I want to meet and buy a round of beers...

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Old 05-15-2012   #17
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Quote:
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Hey, you're in New York, right? There are so many of you guys I want to meet and buy a round of beers...

Yeah, i feel the same way, think that would be fun. we're actually a couple hours north of the city in the mtns, but its an easy ride, so if youre ever in town, let me know!
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Old 05-15-2012   #18
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The x1 is a fine camera...is easy to use and using hyperfocal technique it simply shines...never missed a faster AF (there´s no enough faster AF anyway)
Lens and resolution are also great.

I was expecting to get at least a sumamrit lens on the new x2...at least f2.4, since it´s obvious leica wil not set a brighter lens on such a camera.

Read a review on the net and looked at the pictures in it, very impressive must say!
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Old 05-15-2012   #19
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I have liked the X1 since its introduction. I tried the Fuji X100 and didn't like it at all.

I use the Ricoh GXR a lot, it is a marvelous system camera, but it's not like the X1's utter simplicity either.

With the X2 and its functional updates over the X1 available soon, I'll be very tempted to add an X2 with both EVF and OVF to my kit. If Leica makes an X2 Monochrom as they suggested they might, I'll have to have that one.
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Old 05-15-2012   #20
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Quote:
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If Leica makes an X2 Monochrom as they suggested they might...
I also own and love the X1, but that would definitely increase my interest in an X2 update. I must have missed that rumour...
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Old 05-15-2012   #21
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Ahh...just found a whole nother dimension when using the X1 (and the X2):

http://www.eye.fi/products/prox2?postTabs=1

On LUF, a member describes how he uses the Eye-Fi Pro to tether to his iPad and it works effortlessly.

Forget the LCD!
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Old 05-15-2012   #22
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Get the 45 bucks helios viewfinder and switch off the lcd.....
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Old 05-15-2012   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippiejee View Post
I also own and love the X1, but that would definitely increase my interest in an X2 update. I must have missed that rumour...
Showed up yesterday ... either BBC News or Amateur Photography, can't remember which.

Ah, here it is:
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...compact-camera
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Old 05-16-2012   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave lackey View Post
Ahh...just found a whole nother dimension when using the X1 (and the X2):

http://www.eye.fi/products/prox2?postTabs=1

On LUF, a member describes how he uses the Eye-Fi Pro to tether to his iPad and it works effortlessly.

Forget the LCD!
This could be of interest...grazie Dave !

I have been thinking about the x1/x2 and, owning already the former I decided I'll not upgrade to x2. I do not know yet the x2 price where I live, but I know in the actual economic climate it will be very difficult to sell my x1 and as consequence it would become expensive. to buy an x2.
If the x2 had a slightly faster lens (f2) and more important to me not retractable ( I already had the dust problem) or a dust removal system maybe I would consider this. I know most of people here and on LUF did not have the dust problem, but I had it and I was without the camera for almost 6 weeks!
For sure x2 must be better than x1 but not enough for me !
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Old 05-16-2012   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalintrigue View Post
For $2.6k with an EVF, it's a no brainer for me: the X-Pro1...saves $300 and has a much better form factor with the EVF built in, and a lens that is two stops faster, and no AA filter.

Respectfully, please re-read this earlier post above:

Sure, I can buy a Toyota Camry for half a Mercedes Benz E-350. But, then , we already know that and I love Toyota products. I just don't drive Toyotas anymore, though.

We all have our buying preferences and there is nothing wrong with that.

I would appreciate keeping the discussion on the X2 in this thread and not about comparison with all the other cameras in the world as there are many threads already on RFF doing that and it won't add to the body of knowledge about the X2 at all. thanks
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Old 05-16-2012   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalintrigue View Post
For $2.6k with an EVF, it's a no brainer for me: the X-Pro1...saves $300 and has a much better form factor with the EVF built in, and a lens that is two stops faster, and no AA filter. Not to mention amazing high ISO even at 25k...
But the cameras are in different classes. The X-Pro1 is M9 sized...the X2 is barnack sized.
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Old 05-16-2012   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalintrigue View Post
Sorry, Dave. The X2 is too little too late while also being too much $, IMHO.
Yes, Robert, I understand. Please respect my request to add to the body of knowledge of this new camera. A pissing match will only cause me to delete the thread because I am tired of all this.

Regardless of one's preferences, I am trying to bring in new information for those of us who actually love the little camera. The tethering information with an iPad is an example of that which has never been discussed on RFF before.

Thank you for your input, regardless.
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Old 05-16-2012   #28
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Just playing around with the loaner last night...macro, or at least a couple of quick snaps close-up! Time to explore this new world as it has potential:

(Disclaimer: these are quick handheld snaps with no extra effort beyond handholding as an experiment. Please excuse the lack of artistic, technical and other things that these images do not portray...it was just a happy five minutes with a fun camera)

Original images, not cropped:






I would love to see some good closeups with the X2 when someone finally takes delivery.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Orchid Macro rff.jpg (18.3 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg IIIF macro test rff.jpg (24.4 KB, 293 views)
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Old 05-16-2012   #29
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Yes, there is definitely potential...and this sort of closeup photo does not cost a dime extra!

Another straight up, no PP 8x12 image:

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File Type: jpg Ford Pickup Macro.jpg (24.9 KB, 293 views)
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Old 05-17-2012   #30
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I would like to see more photos of Barnack evolution with the X1 shown for comparisons...this is rather cool, IMO.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...fbe9970b-popup


Thank you, TOP....very cool.
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Old 05-17-2012   #31
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Quote:
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I would like to see more photos of Barnack evolution with the X1 shown for comparisons...this is rather cool, IMO.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...fbe9970b-popup
Very cool. Dave, why do you have to keep making me think about the X2?
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Old 05-17-2012   #32
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Well, John, look at it this way...the photo from TOP shows the evolution of the Barnack camera (I can't even identify them all), so now the X series is paving the way for the digital evolution of the series.

What better way to start your own collection than with the X2 and working backwards, then forwards as the X3 comes out in a couple of years?

BTW, the X1 can be purchased at a very low price these days. Not quite in the IIIF range but getting there.
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Old 05-17-2012   #33
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BTW, the X1 can be purchased at a very low price these days. Not quite in the IIIF range but getting there.
I've thought about that... once I see a $1000 black X1, it may be hard to pass up.
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Old 05-17-2012   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave lackey View Post
I would like to see more photos of Barnack evolution with the X1 shown for comparisons...this is rather cool, IMO.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...fbe9970b-popup


Thank you, TOP....very cool.
Nice photo Dave, I just printed it and stick in front of me...you are becoming a dangerous man, my friend....

robert
PS: hmmm, x1 forever (unless...)
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Old 05-17-2012   #35
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Originally Posted by digitalintrigue View Post
For $2.6k with an EVF, it's a no brainer for me: the X-Pro1...saves $300 and has a much better form factor with the EVF built in, and a lens that is two stops faster, and no AA filter. Not to mention amazing high ISO even at 25k...
And a very tricky sensor to work with when it comes to raw conversion.
Sorry, the X-Pro1 leaves me cold.

The simplicity and excellent ergonomics of the X2 are what appeal to me most. I don't know that the EVF is all that important to me ... I'd probably fit an optical viewfinder most of the time. The Voigtländer 35mm viewfinder is much less expensive than the Leica. And if I wanted the EVF, the Olympus VF-2 is the same piece as the Leica unit and costs about half what the Leica does.

But that's why there are so many different cameras on the market. Each has its plusses and minuses, and appeals to various people for different reasons.

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Old 05-17-2012   #36
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I am a happy X100 user with an XP1 on its way as I speak.

I have owned and loved countless Leicas over the past 50 years, but . . . To me, the X2 is too little, too late.
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Old 05-17-2012   #37
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Ciao Dave, this could be of interest :-)
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Old 05-17-2012   #38
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Folks, I really don't want to sound grumpy. Seriously, I don't.

Please see Post #30 above.

I have started this thread for a few interested parties to learn about a specific camera and discuss it based on a body of information that has not been done before on RFF due to everyone's sidetracking previous threads about why they don't like Leica or the X series or why they like Fuji or Canikon or whatever. That is NOT what this thread is all about.

If you want to do that, start your own thread.
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Old 05-17-2012   #39
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Yes, there is definitely potential...and this sort of closeup photo does not cost a dime extra!

Another straight up, no PP 8x12 image:

The JOY of playing around with photographic gear! Just having fun.

A miniature model truck next to a Pierre Cardin pen...not a crop, straight out of the X1.

What, no one curious as to how this was done? Not that it is anything other than a quick snapshot....but... I am trying to pique some interest in the capabilities of the X series that has not been discussed before. There are folks on the LUF that have done some really good macro work using the Kiwi extension tube, a setup adaptor and a closeup lens, all for very little money.

If anyone is interested, I can give you links to get those.

But, the images above were done with zero cash outlay and nothing attached to the X1.
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Old 05-17-2012   #40
robert blu
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Age: 67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave lackey View Post
...

But, the images above were done with zero cash outlay and nothing attached to the X1.
Of course I was curious but afraid to ask too private question! And now I'm even more curious....

robert
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