What? Nobody in New York?

Todd.Hanz · 08-31-2004

Don't we have any members living in the New York area? I'd love to see some posts of the protestors/riots going on at the convention. Wish I was there!

Todd

jon_flanders · 08-31-2004

I was there on the 29th. Here's a shot. I was wearing a t shirt my wife got me on her recent trip to Peru. The man said, hey, that's my hometown!(Cuzco). So I took his picture with his daughter.

Jon Flanders

jon_flanders · 08-31-2004

I don't know if you can read the poster, but is says Armageddon.

Jon Flanders

jon_flanders · 08-31-2004

My buddies. We marched past Madison Square Garden, took an hour off for lunch and rejoined the march as if we had never left. A true river of humanity.

Jon Flanders

Todd.Hanz · 08-31-2004

Nice shots John, looks pretty peaceful, anymore?

Todd

nwcanonman · 08-31-2004

Jon,
I sent a copy of your picture to my Nefew who works at GAP in San Fran, corporate offices. He'll get a kick out of it. Thanks.

jon_flanders · 08-31-2004

It was quite peaceful on the 29th and 30th. The city is crawling with police. I understand that they have 200 officers out with helmet cams that transmit wirelessly to a central office where they monitor everything.

There have been incidents where the police attacked protestors with pepper spray.

I walked across town on the 30th to B&H photo which is on 9th Ave. As I walked back I could see block after block get closed off. I got some pictures of the empty streets. These have yet to be developed. I think that you might be taking chances if you happen to photograph something that is considered a "security issue."

I will say that I don't think I have ever seen so many cameras in one place in my life. Mostly digital of course.

Jon Flanders

LionFlyer · 08-31-2004

So many demanding the fruits of other peoples labor and willing to throw tantrums if they don't get it. How can I be free if I deny freedom to others? I thought we are the land of the free. Home of the brave. But from what I can see on the streets of NYC. We aspire to be neither free or brave.

Todd.Hanz · 09-01-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by LionFlyer
So many demanding the fruits of other peoples labor and willing to throw tantrums if they don't get it. How can I be free if I deny freedom to others? I thought we are the land of the free. Home of the brave. But from what I can see on the streets of NYC. We aspire to be neither free or brave.

Well said.

Todd

Oldprof · 09-01-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by LionFlyer
So many demanding the fruits of other peoples labor and willing to throw tantrums if they don't get it ...

I have seen many other forums degenerate when people use them as platforms to state their personal political views. So I hope our Rangefinder Forum doesn't go that route.

Having said that, I don't understand how you interpret the demonstrations in New York as being about "demanding the fruits of other people's labor." But perhaps we shouldn't get into that discussion on this particular forum. It could spoil the nice and friendly ambience so far established here.

Todd.Hanz · 09-01-2004

Good point too!

Todd

back alley · 09-01-2004

i agree!

Brian Sweeney · 09-01-2004

I thought that Todd was very polite and not too demanding when he asked to see photographs that other people took in New York. If we thought taking pictures was such a labor, we would not be on this forum. I certainly don't think that anyone would have thrown a tantrum if pictures were not posted.

back alley · 09-01-2004

i don't think that the 'demand' post was connected to the request by todd for photos but rather to the protests outside the convention centre.

GeneW · 09-01-2004

What would really impress me would be some shots from within the convention centre!

I'll bet those press passes are among the hardest to come by! I've always thought it would be quite an experience to photograph a political convention (either party).

We don't have the same level of hoopla up here in Canada.

Gene

back alley · 09-01-2004

that's correct, our hoopla is more subdued.

Rich Silfver · 09-01-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by LionFlyer
So many demanding the fruits of other peoples labor and willing to throw tantrums if they don't get it. How can I be free if I deny freedom to others? I thought we are the land of the free. Home of the brave. But from what I can see on the streets of NYC. We aspire to be neither free or brave.

I also don't want to turn RFF 'political' but I have to say that all the things listed above are reasons why people are demonstrating against the current government.

Todd.Hanz · 09-01-2004

I can safely say that some of you do not hold the same social, moral, or political views as I do, and that is O.K. with me (how boring would this place be if everyone agreed on everything, it's what makes this country great).
There was a time in my life that I got to travel the world, I saw exotic places like Monaco/Monte Carlo, Spain, Israel, Turkey, Norway, Puerto Rico, Portugal, Italy, Sicily, and more, all beautiful places.
I traveled on large jet aircraft and even larger ships, I was a member of the U.S. armed forces, I am a former Marine.
I have seen the best and the worst in people, places and things. I have been beat up, beat down, and at the end of the day just plain beat for my country.
I say all of this so you can understand my view about what is happening in New York...........I love it. I love the fact that people can disagree with their leaders, stick a piece of paper on a stick, scribble something on it and march around town for the world to see. I think political dissent, in a peaceful nature, is healthy and often opens dialogues not otherwise considered, democracy in action?
My original post was asking if there were any members in the New York area because I wanted to see the emotion on the faces of the protestors, their posture and their demeanor. I like images that stir emotion in me and make me think.
I didn't intend for it to become political, we all have different views and I would be glad to share mine with you in a different forum if you'd like, but not here. This forum is proof that people with differing opinions about some things can find common ground on other, more important things, like photography.
So, lets talk about my next Leica..............................

Todd

Oldprof · 09-01-2004

Nice post Todd. You have nothing to feel awkward about. It was LionFlyer who first introduced a political opinion into the discussion. And he had the right to do this as we do live in a country that values freedom of speech. The only problem is that one such opinion invites responses from others who hold different views, and pretty soon you have a heated and potentially nasty political debate. I don't know whether the members of Rangefinder Forum want it to become politicized. I am a member of another forum that has gone this route. It is fun to participate in political debates there, but it does get get quite vicious and personal at times. The absence of such arguments is one of the things that makes Rangefinder Forum unique in my view. I'm just assuming that most people would prefer to keep it that way. I could be wrong about this. Perhaps we should do a poll of the membership on this issue.

P.S. I just reread the Forum Rules and there are prohibitions against flaming, trolling, spamming, offensive posts and links, self-promotion, and the posting of copyrighted material. However, there is no specific policy mentioned concerning the posting of political opinions.

JohnM · 09-01-2004

Perhaps it's best if we stick to talking about owning, using, enjoying, and in the case of the Leica owners, kissing and stroking rangefinder cameras.

Political discussions in a two-dimensional format like an internet forum tend to lack the expression and nuance that allows you to have a heated political discussion with a friend and still part as friends.

We manage a number of forums on several sports network sites that deal in much heavier volume than we see here - we learned years ago that political threads were counter to the sense of community we tried to bring.

My two cents.

Rich Silfver · 09-01-2004

I own a Leica and I have never kissed it.

Doug · 09-01-2004

Never held it gently and caressed its clean lines, or stroked its wind lever lovingly, Richard? Never, as Oscar, whispered, "Preciouussssssss..." :-D

Rich Silfver · 09-01-2004

Sorry, the possibility of 'four more years' is bringing me down.

back alley · 09-03-2004

i love political debate and even though i don't live in the states anymore i follow the political scene closely.
my fear for this site is what has happened to other sites that i used to enjoy going to. people getting down right nasty with each other, trying to change each other's mind/opinion about who/what is right!
i stopped going to these sites and some i just drop in on occasionally but it's not the same.
there are sites that pertain to politics and i think the debates are best kept there.

we are here for our love/enjoyment of rangefinder cameras and i would really like to keep it that way.

just my 2 cents...

joe

Brian Sweeney · 09-04-2004

While the site was down visited another forum that I quit and removed all of my stuff from. They were up to the same old crap and I certainly was convinced that sites such as this are best left apolitical. Enough people thrive on annoying others from the safety of their keyboard and hide behind the anonymity of the Internet.

A well moderated and focussed forum seems to be the best answer to maintaining an enjoyable site and friendly place.