My last roll of Agfa APX100

[d_ross]

Originally Posted by PMCC

Thanks, good to hear. Does the label or box say who makes it, and where?

I got it from direct from Germany by the carton, this is it.

http://www.agfaphoto.com/appc/conten...34538ccebaab86

[timor]

Originally Posted by d_ross

I got it from direct from Germany by the carton, this is it.

http://www.agfaphoto.com/appc/conten...34538ccebaab86

Yes, but this is Agfaphoto, not a real APX. I know this film, it is very good film, but markedly different from Agfa APX.

[PMCC]

Originally Posted by timor

Yes, but this is Agfaphoto, not a real APX. I know this film, it is very good film, but markedly different from Agfa APX.

Can you elaborate on the differences?

[sevo]

Originally Posted by timor

Yes, but this is Agfaphoto, not a real APX. I know this film, it is very good film, but markedly different from Agfa APX.

Well, the right magic label might be missing, and it might be getting on in years, but otherwise it is exactly the same stuff.

Agfaphoto is the (former) Agfa consumer division, split out something like a year before the collapse - parts of it, like the holding marketing the brand, survived. APX, at least in 135, was already marketed as/by Agfaphoto before Agfa went down, at least in Germany. Ever since then, Lupus (a management buyout of parts of the Agfa marketing division), using a license to the Agfaphoto brand, sells the films, which are cut from old stock laid down and frozen by Agfa before they closed production.

Or are you thinking of pre-APX Agfapan? The old emulsions were (mostly rather insignificantly) changed along with the switch to APX branding, and not everybody agreed it was an improvement. However criticism mostly affected their cancellation of the ISO 25 film soon after and changes done to the 400 film (which affected development times more than the visual result, at least for me) - I don't remember hearing anything bad about the 100 back when the changes were current.

[Trius]

Originally Posted by timor

This film should be rather in the hands of someone who understands it, 100 feet is a pretty little to learn it. So, if you are serious let me know; my e-mail timorttt@gmail.com.
To be clear about it, it is one of the very last rolls of original Agfa from Henry's in Toronto.

Email sent.

[timor]

Originally Posted by sevo

Agfaphoto is the (former) Agfa consumer division,

Isn't it, that Agfaphoto went bankrupt in 2005 ? Agfa Gevaert can not produce APX since the whole production line was sold to Adox. But Adox did not get the licence to make APX. "Agfaphoto" is now just a brand name licenced by Agfa Gevaert to other manufacturers. Who knows, what today's Agfaphoto APX is.
Never less that batch of Agfaphoto APX I had, was a very nice film.

[imush]

Originally Posted by timor

Isn't it, that Agfaphoto went bankrupt in 2005 ? Agfa Gevaert can not produce APX since the whole production line was sold to Adox. But Adox did not get the licence to make APX. "Agfaphoto" is now just a brand name licenced by Agfa Gevaert to other manufacturers. Who knows, what today's Agfaphoto APX is.
Never less that batch of Agfaphoto APX I had, was a very nice film.

I ordered some of it, will see if there is a difference that I can discern.

[d_ross]

well all I can say is I've used APX100 in 35mm 4x5 120 for a very long time and this stuff processed the same and looked the same, so if it looks like an apple and tastes like an apple and you like apples does it matter if it's called a pear :-)

[timor]

Originally Posted by d_ross

well all I can say is I've used APX100 in 35mm 4x5 120 for a very long time and this stuff processed the same and looked the same, so if it looks like an apple and tastes like an apple and you like apples does it matter if it's called a pear :-)

If it works for you, that's great. I bought that brick of APX 100 three years ago and what I had was more contrasty then APX I knew. I did some googling and it looked to me, that APX may become inconsistent and anyway hard to get in Canada so I switched to TMX.
It is quite possible to, that someone unfroze some hidden away master roll of original APX. Is it also coming in 120 and sheets ?

[d_ross]

Originally Posted by timor

If it works for you, that's great. I bought that brick of APX 100 three years ago and what I had was more contrasty then APX I knew. I did some googling and it looked to me, that APX may become inconsistent and anyway hard to get in Canada so I switched to TMX.
It is quite possible to, that someone unfroze some hidden away master roll of original APX. Is it also coming in 120 and sheets ?

No only 35mm, they will sell and ship overseas direct by the carton only, which works out to be a very good per roll price. I also use TMX for most of my work now. However I always found APX100 to be a contrasty film so only used it at certain times.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by timor

Isn't it, that Agfaphoto went bankrupt in 2005 ?

Yes. However, many bits and pieces of it were sold or went into management buyouts.

Originally Posted by timor

Agfa Gevaert can not produce APX since the whole production line was sold to Adox. But Adox did not get the licence to make APX.

No, the latest production line (supposedly not even in full operation when Agfaphoto went down) went into a management buyout called Inoviscoat. Who are supplying Fotoimpex (Berlin), who recently acquired the name rights to Adox, and have been a long time distribution partner of Efke (Croatia), who in their turn bought the Adox production lines decades ago and still produce a (slightly modernized) version of the old Adox films.

The less modern Agfa production lines, i.e. those most products we know from Agfa have been made on, were part scrapped, part sold off (to a Korean company) for liquid crystal panel coating and can be considered gone as far as photography is concerned. Due to that, all more critical processes (film more so than paper, as the latter does not have as constant a speed rating across batches) do have to be tweaked for production on the new Inoviscoat facility.

Originally Posted by timor

"Agfaphoto" is now just a brand name licenced by Agfa Gevaert to other manufacturers. Who knows, what today's Agfaphoto APX is.

Well, Agfaphoto as a brand name for film and cameras is exclusively licensed to Lupus Film&Imaging, the management buyout of the former Agfaphoto sales department. And while they do sell odd Chinese cameras under the Agfaphoto brand, their black and white film activities have so far been strictly limited to marketing their inventory of old Agfa stock. Accordingly APX400 vanished when they ran out of raw stock, and the APX100 they are selling in Germany still has the same development specs as Agfa APX100 (and is sold too cheap to be replaced by any non-obvious substitute).

[HHPhoto]

Well, what 'Sevo' said is correct.
Just some further background information:

It was only the "AgfaPhoto Produktion" which got in insolvency.
Their mother company, the AgfaPhoto Holding, did not get in insolvency.
They are still working. But all what they do is licensing the name "AgfaPhoto" to other, different companies.
That is the reason why you can buy digital cameras, batteries and films from different companies, but all with the "AgfaPhoto" label on it.

The license for films is sold to Lupus Imaging in Germany. These guys are all former Agfa employees (international sales stuff).
Lupus Imaging is selling films under the name "AgfaPhoto", which is licenced from the AgfaPhoto Holding.

Lupus Imaging is currently selling AgfaPhoto APX 100 BW film.
This is still old, freezed stock from the last production run in 2005 of the old Agfa plant in Leverkusen, Germany.
There is no (!!) new APX film on the market currently.

Adox is cooperating with InovisCoat ( www.inoviscoat.de ) to reformulate Agfa APX 400 and 100, and then sell it as Adox Pan 100 and 400. As Mirko Böddecker of Adox has said several times, the films will be not completey identical. E.g they try to make the 400 film more fine grained.

InovisCoat: They have bought one of the original coating machines from Agfa Leverkusen, and the emulsion vessels. They have modernised the machines and scaled down.
All InovisCoat staff are former techicians and engineers from Agfa in Leverkusen.
They are already making the MCC and MCP BW paper for Adox.
And they are helping Impossible Project with their color films (official statement from Impossible).

All the current color films Lupus Imaging is offering as AgfaPhoto film is now made by Fuji (during the last years they sell Ferrania CN film and Kodak slide film as AgfaPhoto; but Ferrania stopped film production in 2009).

Cheers, Jan

[timor]

Thank's Jan for clearing this fog. When do you think Adox will start to market the Pan films ?

[hipsterdufus]

Originally Posted by d_ross

I got it from direct from Germany by the carton, this is it.

http://www.agfaphoto.com/appc/conten...34538ccebaab86

Can you enlighten me on how, exactly, you purchase from this site? I don't see any way of doing it from outside Germany.

[timor]

Maybe you should try this website ?
http://www.macodirect.de/films-agfap...8733e09d1e0efa

[HHPhoto]

Originally Posted by timor

Thank's Jan for clearing this fog. When do you think Adox will start to market the Pan films ?

You're welcome.
Currently the Pan 400 is in the works. First test emulsions have been coated on a small pilot machine. Results are good.
The main problem is always the upscaling to the big coating machine. If it runs on the small machine, that doesn't mean it automatically runs on the big machine at InovisCoat.
So probably end of this year or next year the new Pan 400 will hit the market.

Cheers, Jan

[ghostwriter69]

Any new APX 100 in 120? I've got one roll left... Plus two boxes of 4x5.

[HHPhoto]

Originally Posted by ghostwriter69

Any new APX 100 in 120? I've got one roll left... Plus two boxes of 4x5.

No.
As I've intensively explained above, there is no new APX 100.

Adox is now concentrating on Pan 400. If that will be successful in the future, then they will turn to the ISO 100 version.
I don't expect that before 2013/2014.
It is very very difficult to make new films. Both from a technical and economical point of view.

Cheers, Jan

[hipsterdufus]

Originally Posted by timor

Maybe you should try this website ?
http://www.macodirect.de/films-agfap...8733e09d1e0efa

Thanks for the info. Just ordered 20 rolls. Works out to $3.35 per roll (after shipping!). Can't find film that cheap even in America. Sounds like a challenging film, but I like challenges.

[HHPhoto]

Originally Posted by hipsterdufus

Thanks for the info. Just ordered 20 rolls. Works out to $3.35 per roll (after shipping!). Can't find film that cheap even in America. Sounds like a challenging film, but I like challenges.

APX 100 is not at all challenging. Simple to work with.
It is the best ISO/21° BW film with classic cubic crystals.
Finer grain and higher resolution compared to Plus-X, Fp4+, Fomapan 100, Efke 100, Kentmere 100.

Of course Delta 100, TMX, Acros are surpassing APX 100 is this respect, due to their more modern emulsion technology (Delta grains, T-grains and Sigma crystals [Acros] ).

Cheers, Jan

[hipsterdufus]

Originally Posted by HHPhoto

APX 100 is not at all challenging. Simple to work with.
It is the best ISO/21° BW film with classic cubic crystals.
Finer grain and higher resolution compared to Plus-X, Fp4+, Fomapan 100, Efke 100, Kentmere 100.

Of course Delta 100, TMX, Acros are surpassing APX 100 is this respect, due to their more modern emulsion technology (Delta grains, T-grains and Sigma crystals [Acros] ).

Cheers, Jan

Thanks for all of the info. Do you have a recommendation for developing temps/times/dilutions for Rodinal? There's lots of info on-line, but your technical knowledge seems to be a bit beyond that average layman...

[timor]

Originally Posted by HHPhoto

No.
Adox is now concentrating on Pan 400. If that will be successful in the future, then they will turn to the ISO 100 version.
I don't expect that before 2013/2014.
It is very very difficult to make new films. Both from a technical and economical point of view.

Cheers, Jan

Thank's Jan. Lets hope Adox will hang there and eventually deliver. If Kodak does something unthinkable the pressure on Ilford and Adox for high quality film might be high. And there is also the question in what format Adox is planning to make Pan 400.

[HHPhoto]

Originally Posted by hipsterdufus

Thanks for all of the info. Do you have a recommendation for developing temps/times/dilutions for Rodinal? There's lots of info on-line, but your technical knowledge seems to be a bit beyond that average layman...

You're welcome, Eric.

Development time for Rodinal 1+50 is 17:00 min., for a Gamma of 0,65. That is the official Agfa recommendation.
For a condensor enlarger a Gamma of 0,55 - 0,60 is recommended, if you have a condensor enlarger you should shorten the development time.

Cheers, Jan

[HHPhoto]

Originally Posted by timor

Thank's Jan. Lets hope Adox will hang there and eventually deliver. If Kodak does something unthinkable the pressure on Ilford and Adox for high quality film might be high. And there is also the question in what format Adox is planning to make Pan 400.

You're welcome.
Adox is planning 135, 120 and sheet film.
Perhaps we will even see 110 Pocket film again. In general Adox is working on that. They have bought the former Ferrania 110 converting machine.

Cheers, Jan

[Mablo]

I still have about 70 rolls left of APX100. I've tried to find a replacement for the last two years but failed so far. TomA has been playing with ORWO 54 (see his Flickr stream) which to my eye looks like a possible contender. Beautiful, crisp tones. It's a shame I can't buy it for a sensible price here in EU.