S2 vs S3 finder

[heliographer]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

Hey - that was a long time since any Nikon RF-basher came in this sub-forum for the sake of just bashing what's this sub-forum is about.

Thanks

I didn't mean it as bashing. I love Nikon cameras AND RFs. I started on Fs, F2s, etc. and have F3s, and I've had a dozen or so RFs, mostly LTM or M Leicas. That's why I bought the darned thing, hoping the S2 was the peanut butter cup of cameras (not to mention it mounts some of the best lenses ever made). I just learned it wasn't for me. Seriously, more power to folks who love 'em.

I still don't know why one wouldn't get the Bessa R2S/C. Then you'd get the superior VF and ergonomics (but inferior RF and build quality). Right?

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by rxmd

Wrong on both counts.

Very well possible, but I don't care in this case. I wish you could add something interesting to the discussion.

Erik.

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

@Erik van Straten

Sorry I got confused w/ removing the S3 / SP topcovers when I thought of the large ring securing the topcover to the chassis around the wind lever axle. This ring doesn't exist on the S2. Post edited.

It is OK.
Thank you for the link!
In the meantime I received the S2 repair manual. Makes fascinating reading.
It seems that the front plate and the focussing mount can be removed as one piece quite easily. In that case however the leather covering has to be removed. I don't like that, but can the small prism be reached in that way too?

Erik.

[thompsonks]

Meanwhile, back to the OP's question: Does anyone else with glasses find that the 50mm framelines of the S3, though not 1:1, are pretty nice to use, too?

[redisburning]

personally I wouldn't buy an S2 if I already owned an SP and/or an S3.

not that I don't think the S2 is an excellent camera. but I wear glasses, and I find the .72 finder on my M2 suits me a lot better than the S2 one.

personally if I were in the market for a Nikon RF it would be an S2, but that's more a budget thing. The S3 and SP are PRICEY.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten

It seems that the front plate and the focussing mount can be removed as one piece quite easily. In that case however the leather covering has to be removed. I don't like that, but can the small prism be reached in that way too?

Erik.

I wouldn't go that way ! The leatherette will get torn out, and you will get serious focus register calibration problems ! Plus, the screws attaching the whole front panel to the chassis won't want to budge I reckon.

The best and only way to reach the RF prism is to remove the front plate and the top cover.

Removing the focusing helical by itself is very easy and this is a great opportunity to take it apart, clean its threads with solvent and 0000 steel wool, and slightly lubricate it with white lithium grease before reassembling so that you get a butter smooth focusing action.

There is a strong debate around about whether the focusing helical should be lubricated or not. Personally I like doing it, but other skilled people don't, so just read all the threads about this to make your own opinion.

[VinceC]

The S2 is definitely an eyeglasses scratcher. The back of the eyefinder has a raised metal lip. My hands-down favorite camera is the S3 because I love the huge 1:1 wideangle finder that allows me to shoot 28mm lens without a secondary finder. However, that requires pressing the metal viewfinder up against my glasses. I no longer get paid to take pictures and it's just not worth it to me, so I stick with the SP and mini wide-angles.

I don't have the cameras out to compare, but I think the S2 sound is about as loud as a Nikon F, but a different kind of sound. Interestingly, I have found that my Titanium shutter cameras and my cloth shutter cameras (RF) are about the same noise-wise -- I have an old SP in which the shutter was replaced with Titanium, and the sound it really the same as my SP-2005.

On ergonomics, I completely understand. I had a nearly identical reaction when I picked up a Leica M-6. Almost every single aspect of the camera was just a big turnoff. The less-than-lifesize finder - hated it. Shutter button in wrong place. Lenses turn wrong. No way to hold lens still via the focus wheel. No way to shoot one-handed using the focus wheel. Really hate the automatic frameline indexing feature ... why can't I choose the lens? Why do I need to see an unrelated frameline along with the one the lens has selected? Guess I'd been using Nikon RFs too long before I checked out Leica.

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

I wouldn't go that way !

Thank you for these wise words!

Erik.

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by VinceC

The S2 is definitely an eyeglasses scratcher.

I have diopters on my S2 cameras. The back of these is very smooth, won't scratch your glasses. If you can find one and remove the glass, you have a perfect glasses-protector.

Erik.

[Highway 61]

A properly sized rubber gasket bought at the local plumbing store for 5c and glued around the eyepiece with three harmless glue spots will do it perfectly as for preserving the glasses.

[VinceC]

Good advice on the eyeglass protection. I'd prefer a rubber gasket to a diopter. I need my eyeglasses too much so it's not at all ordinary to remove them.

[maitani]

after the great advice here, I orderered and finally received my S2, unexpectedly the Rangefinder patch is really much better visible than on the S3 almost on par with my SP, I guess the reflected framelines fo the S3 are the main difference, the S3 is slightly more prone to flare, because of the reflective coating on the eyepiece and the 3 lines which light up very prominently as soon as you work in mixed lightconditions. I guess my 50 will live on the S2 in the future, impressive for the age. nice uncluttered view, one simple 50 frame, the nice greenish tint helps for better contrast imo. where the S3 has a rather yellowish tint, but both are great and absolutely workable imo. the S3 is still the best choice for 35 imo.

for the sound, the S2 is louder than the S3/SP but not by much, i guess main reason is the turning dial action of the 2-phase time wheel, nowhere as lound as my F2 though. very, very nice I'm impressed

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by maitani

for the sound, the S2 is louder than the S3/SP but not by much, i guess main reason is the turning dial action of the 2-phase time wheel

The sound of the S2 is caused by a device called "pendulum" wich is a kind of counterweight to the shutter wich acts as a brake.

However, I've never seen a picture of this pendulum and I've never read an explanation of how it works.

Erik.

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by photomoof

it is really rather a simple design, It is a bit noisy

Thank you, Photomoof, finally I found it. However, when the shutter is set at "B", the pendulum moves only when the first curtain runs. When the second curtain runs, it doesn't move, but the second curtain gives a much louder "clack" then the first curtain. I still do not understand why the shutter is noisy because of the pendulum.

Erik.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten

I still do not understand why the shutter is noisy because of the pendulum.

It's because the pendulum brake doesn't stop immediatly, there is an oscillation movement till it stops, with several back/forth echoes.

It works +/- like a vintage bumpers automatic watch movement.

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you, Highway 61, for this explanation. I'll think it over.

Erik.

[Range-rover]

Hi all,,
I have a Nikon S2 and I took the camera apart, I removed the front
and top plate to get at the prisms of the rangefinders, I cleaned the small
prism with a Q-Tip and Eclipse E2 cleaner being real careful but I got the
dirt off, next was the larger prism there's a small space between the
front and back one, I just folded a little lens cleaning tissue and cleaned
in between them, and the circle part on the side as well that was really
dirty but the result was worth it, ii's so much better now really clear I can
see better. So my advice is if your handy and not afraid of digging in
go for it, if not get a repair person to do it, it's so much better when
done.

Range

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by Range-rover

there's a small space between the
front and back one,

You mean the space between the round part of the ocular and the beamsplitting block in front of it?

How did you remove the retaining ring inside the release guard?

Erik.

[Range-rover]

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten

You mean the space between the round part of the ocular and the beamsplitting block in front of it?

How did you remove the retaining ring inside the release guard?

Erik.

I made my own tool out of a old pair of scissors, I Dremeled it
to size.

[RObert Budding]

Originally Posted by heliographer

Let's just call it like it is. Fine, you want an S2. I wish you luck/happiness with your decision (de gustibus non disputandum est). I had one. I hated it. The only things that were good about it were the wide rf base length and the reasonably high quality materials/manufacturing. But everything else about it--the discolored vf/rf, the stupid Contax focusing system, the horrible ergonomics, etc. made me regret the purchase. The only camera I regret buying more is the Minox 35 GL.

Is it really that much cheaper than a Voigtlander (or dare I say it, a Leica M/CL)?

The Nikon S2 would seem ergonomic if you had started with a Contax! I did like the Contax IIa that I owned, but I ruined my Zeiss progressive lens eyeglasses because I scratched a lens on the metal piece around the finder. And the squinty finder was pretty difficult to use with glasses. So I sold it.

I'm intrigued by Nikon rangefinders. Perhaps the SP or S3 would be reasonable alternatives to an S2. I just don't want to ruin my new glasses.

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by RObert Budding

I just don't want to ruin my new glasses.

Simply install a dedicated S2 diopter.

Erik.

[VinceC]

As a regular eyeglasses wearerer, I find it unworkable to consider removing my eyeglasses to take photos. Removes the main benefit of a Nikon viewfinder -- shooting with both eyes open.

[RObert Budding]

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten

Simply install a dedicated S2 diopter.

Erik.

I've tried diopters - I can't see well enough to adjust the settings on my camera without glasses. I really do need to wear them when I shoot.