Unsubstantiated developments coming to film

Robert Lai · 03-05-2012

This morning I called Mike Lussier of AgX Imaging to ask about a couple of rolls of Provia 100 that I had sent for developing. They were from cameras that had come back from servicing (including my Pan American Rolleiflex, and a Henry Scherer overhauled Super Ikonta C), and I was anxious to know how they came out before committing more film into these cameras.

AgX does only E-6 processing. I asked him how the loss of Kodak's slide films was going to affect him. For myself, I just placed a large order at B&H for E100G in 35mm and 120 sizes. Get it while you can, just like when Kodachrome was being discontinued. Mike has connections within Kodak and Fuji. He said that the chemicals were committed to be made for 2 more years. After that, he would probably have to switch to Fuji chemicals. The chemicals are almost identical, with the exception that the formaldehyde stabilizer comes in the middle of the process with Kodak, and later in the process with Fuji. (I hope I understood this correctly - I'm not familiar with E6 processing). The only upshot is that with the Fuji process, if the processor is not meticulous in QC, then streaking of the slides can occur. Mike is fanatical about his E6 line, so I'm sure he will make the transition properly.

About slide film in general. He said that he used to get about 85% 35mm slide film, but lately medium format (120) has been predominant. I told him that my own feeling was that if I'm going to keep shooting film, I'd rather shoot 120 than 35mm. Apparently, a lot of other slide shooters feel the same way. Too bad I spent a bunch of money on Leica M gear, in retrospect....

Kodak's slide film business was basically gutted by Fuji's Velvia. I was never a big fan of Velvia, as I preferred the natural tones of Astia, but then I'm in the minority. Most people like garish supersaturated color (my worthless opinion only).

OTOH, Fuji is going to give up on the color negative films. They plan to keep only the 160 speed pro film in C-41. So, that's a bit of new news that I have no other substantiation from 3rd party sources. C-41 has always been a money loser for Fuji. So, it seems that Kodak is going to be the color negative film source, and Fuji will be the slide (Velvia) and Instant film source. Nice way to divide what's left of the film market, I guess.

kmallick · 03-05-2012

This won't be that bad afterall. This has been surmised in the past and all film lovers will be happy if Kodak sticks to Portra and Tri-X, Fuji to 160C and Velvia and Ilford to all stuff B&W.

I can also understand why most E-6 processing has shifted to 120. Its due to most amateurs like us who want to get that big negatives as the 35mm slide shooters have gone down to a handful.

Like many, I love Velvia for landscape shots. I never thought I would care much for Astia until I tried one for people shots and I was hooked. The resolution and lack of grain is unbelievable in Astia.

Joe Vitessa · 03-05-2012

[quote= OTOH, Fuji is going to give up on the color negative films. They plan to keep only the 160 speed pro film in C-41. So, that's a bit of new news that I have no other substantiation from 3rd party sources. C-41 has always been a money loser for Fuji. So, it seems that Kodak is going to be the color negative film source, and Fuji will be the slide (Velvia) and Instant film source. Nice way to divide what's left of the film market, I guess.[/QUOTE]

I had heard from a photo retailer that Fuji was only going to keep its 400H line of C-41 professional films. Not sure about the Superia consumer films...
Can anyone substantiate either rumor?

BobYIL · 03-05-2012

Well, not so surprising.. Velvia was a hit from the beginning on; having double as much speed as the best Kodachrome yet having more resolving power than any other slide film. The E-6 process was a huge advantage, have your film developed almost at any lab.. pushing possibility like Ektachome was a plus..

Today the E-6 is as easy as the C-41, simple kits for amateurs are available and if you prefer you can even mix your own chemicals yourself.

Now the slide film market will belong to Fujifilm, so there is more probability for the sales volume to suffice for them to keep on production for some years to come.

kmallick · 03-05-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobYIL

Today the E-6 is as easy as the C-41, simple kits for amateurs are available and if you prefer you can even mix your own chemicals yourself.

I do some E-6 developing at home and its a great experience to pull up the slides in color from the can. However the choice for home E-6 kits, at least in the US, has dwindled to one - the kit from Freestyle. I am not sure if I would want to do the mixing of chemicals from larger quantities for home. I really hope E-6 lives on.

Ronald_H · 03-05-2012

It looks like I finally have to buy that big, big freezer and fill it to the brim with film I like. And I like Superia, especially 400 and 800. Consumer film or not, it's what works best for me.

BobYIL · 03-05-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmallick

I do some E-6 developing at home and its a great experience to pull up the slides in color from the can. However the choice for home E-6 kits, at least in the US, has dwindled to one - the kit from Freestyle. I am not sure if I would want to do the mixing of chemicals from larger quantities for home. I really hope E-6 lives on.

As long as the slide films exist, the E-6 chemicals will exist too. BTW, for the worst scenario Derek Watkin's site is always available. Raw chemicals are not expensive at all.

The worst (or best

) thing with the slide films is that their colors are not reproducible with any digital PP.. we still praise the best outputs as "film-like".. People love the colors from Fujifilm digital cameras because these guys know film!

segedi · 03-05-2012

This isn't unexpected news, but a bit sad. I have a LOT of slide film and I'm not anxious to shoot it all in 2 years time : )

I had given up on slide film. Hadn't shot it in years. And then, someone wanted to buy a photo they saw on my flickr site. It had been scanned in pretty low res and I needed to find it to rescan. And while digging through boxes of slides, I found some others I wanted to print up.

After scanning on the Nikon 9000 ED - I was amazed at the details. The buyer was sent a resized scan and she ended up printing (cropped) a 30x40" photo that she describes as "stunning" - and this was from a 35mm capture!

I've since printed a couple for myself (18x24") and they look like great. So much so I promptly placed an order with B&H. Provia and Velvia in 120 and 135. I know, not Kodak, but the colors can always be toned down in post.

Gary E · 03-05-2012

The real question is who's going to continue with B&W? Illford?

Trius · 03-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary E

The real question is who's going to continue with B&W? Illford?

Yes, and as long as Kodak is alive, we should have TX and probably TMX and TMY-2.

Then there's Adox and Foma.

ChrisPlatt · 03-06-2012

I find it hard to believe that Fuji would give up on the much larger color negative film market now.

Chris

Trius · 03-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisPlatt

I find it hard to believe that Fuji would give up on the much larger color negative film market now.

Chris

Well, with all their X cameras, I think C-41 is becoming inconsequential to them. Kodak, OTOH, needs every penny of profit they can scrounge.

maddoc · 03-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisPlatt

I find it hard to believe that Fuji would give up on the much larger color negative film market now.

Chris

Fuji is committed to cosmetics, medical supply and digital imaging stuff now. Remember that last year we had a huge natural disaster here in Japan that effected all parts of the Japanese industrial production in some way and during the recovery process some decisions had to be made quickly ...

NLewis · 03-06-2012

Keeping 160H in C-41 makes sense to me. If you're going to the trouble of shooting film, you might as well get some good light. Velvia 100F will probably leave us soon too, it has an odd niche between Velvia 100 and Provia 100.

HHPhoto · 03-07-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisPlatt

I find it hard to believe that Fuji would give up on the much larger color negative film market now.

Chris

+1.

The huge market of house brand CN films is almost exclusively in the hands of Fuji (until 2005 this market was dominated by Agfa, Germany, and partly by Ferrania). Why should Fuji give a recently conquered market to Kodak?
You can buy this films here for only 85 cent per roll. That means that there is still so much demand that Fuji can produce huge amounts of this stuff at such low costs.

PMA made an official statement about the US american market for single use cameras: 36 million of it were sold in 2010 in the USA alone. Only single use cams, now add all the normal films worldwide to this, and the single use cams worldwide.

Fuji has consolidated the professional line of CN films. But in their amateur line almost nothing has changed:
Superia 200, Superia X-Tra 400, Superia X-Tra 800 and 1600 are offered. And the cheap Fuji C200.

Cheers, Jan

anjoca76 · 03-07-2012

Jan, your optimism is infectious, and I don't think it's naive optimism. Will we have all the same film options we do today in a decade or two from now? Likely not. But there will be options. In the meantime, those of us who love to shoot film should enjoy the great emulsions that are still out there, the wonderful lenses and cameras we have to shoot them with, and do our best to make manufacturers want to keep making film by buying and shooting as much of it as we can.

For every doom-and-gloom post here on RFF there are another dozen that continue to discuss gear, technique, and philosophy, etc, and many of them are by relative newcomers to the world of rangefinder (and particularly film) photography.

batterytypehah! · 03-07-2012

Good point about the store brand and single-use market, HHPhoto. Even today, you can still pick up a single-use camera in most gas stations and convenience stores over here. I don't think that Fuji has any reason to leave that segment any time soon.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to license the amateur emulsions to somebody like Lucky. I know, you can't just shift film production to a different facility and get the same product. But I suppose it would be close enough for the amateur market.