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EVF or no EVF
Old 03-04-2012   #1
jett
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EVF or no EVF

I'm interested in an M43 but I'm not sure if an external electronic viewfinder is worthwhile.

I don't plan on manual focusing much because it is my snapshot camera but I feel that composing with a viewfinder would be more enjoyable; however, the viewfinders are generally not-so-good and expensive, so maybe they aren't worthwhile.

For those that have an M43/Nex/whatever, do you like using the EVF? Is it worthwhile, to you?
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Old 03-04-2012   #2
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totally worth it on the Nex. Makes it a real camera. Same for the LX5
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Old 03-04-2012   #3
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I just bought one for my Nex 5n. It makes it usable in bright light but I could live without one, LCD on nex is really good...
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Old 03-04-2012   #4
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Absolutely worth it.

I was in your situation thinking they were too expensive, but I got one. Now I'm glad I did. It makes it so much better to use especially in the bright sun.

Definitely go for one.
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Old 03-04-2012   #5
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Worth it for bright light benefits, and especially so for manual focus lenses. If I shot nothing but AF on a 4/3 especially if it had stabilization... I might consider skipping the EVF.

As it is the EVF is mounted on my GXR about 50% of the time, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on subject. I shoot nothing but manual focus lenses on it.
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Old 03-04-2012   #6
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I use an E-PL2 with a trio of native micro four thirds lenses (17mm oly, 14-42mm oly, and 20mm panasonic). I also own an VF-2 EVF unit, which is very, very good (look through one in store and tell me it's "not very good"), but honestly, I rarely use it, unless I've got one of my manual-focus Nikon, Pentax, or Leica lenses mounted; the benefits to manual focusing and using longer lenses is undeniable (higher res, plus you have one more point of contact to stabilise a longer lens).

Consider this: an LCD screen frees the camera from being stuck to your face, and you have additional creative freedom to shoot higher or lower than your normal eye-level. This is a benefit. You are also free from tunnel-vision, and can quickly switch back and forth between your LCD screen and the scene you're trying to frame, in order to be more aware of things entering and exiting your frame.

I will respect those who feel using an eye-level finder makes you feel more like you're using a "real" camera, but seriously, are Hassleblads and Rolleis not "real cameras" because they lack standard eye-level finders? If you feel that you shoot better with a camera stuck to your face, then that's fine and quite valid. I mean, if you've shot with SLRs and rangefinders your whole life, that sort of shooting style might just feel "right" and automatic. Otherwise, keep an open mind. I find that too often, the underlying reason is that some people feel they don't look like a "serious" photographer with a camera held out at arm's length.
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Old 03-04-2012   #7
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Another member here, Don - a street photographer, swears by the unhitched view you get, like a window on the world, without an optical or electronic viewfinder stuck to your eye.

I must admit, I didn't believe I could adapt to shooting that way but thanks to Don's enthusiasm I tried it and found that it was a very useful way of looking at the world and the subject of interest within it. In some ways it is similar to how one perceives more than just the framelines when using a rangefinder camera.

Optional EVFs being, well, optional, you can always add them later to your system.
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Old 03-06-2012   #8
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On my G1 I always use the EVF, never the LCD. I use only manual lenses. It's sharper for focusing, brighter, more precise feeling, and is unaffected by glare. My daughter switched from an LCD point and shoot to her own G1 with the native lens, and I noticed that after using the LCD for a few days, she switched on her own to the EVF. She's a prolific picture taker too.

Personally, looking around or moving the entire camera body when using an LCD to see the scene is a lot slower for me than opening both eyes in a viewfinder.
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Old 03-07-2012   #9
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This info is very useful to me. I have a G1 and am considering an EP2 w/EVF2. I have 2 other compacts, but both have lcd & ovf. I also have a Sony R1, and with it's unique lcd, I can use at eye level with evf or as wlf with lcd. In bright sun, all my lcd's wash out, so am forced to use ovf (very small) or evf's (OK).
Does anyone have a direct comparison between the G1 evf and the Oly EVF2? I use both AF & manual focus lenses.
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Old 03-07-2012   #10
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I have a GF1 with the EVF. I am going to replace it with one of the newer 4/3's but I will still buy the EVF. Holding a camera out in front of you to compose is just a dumb way of trying to get a good picture. You just add camera shake with arms extended and no amount of image stabilization is going to correct it. EVF is essential for serious picture taking. An optical viewfinder on the hot shoe is a good alternative, but you lose parallax correction and accurate framing.
And I haven't even commented on the poor performance of the LCD's in bright light.
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Old 03-07-2012   #11
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Worth it. If only for the more stable "handholding" position where you can brace the camera against your forehead. Don't get me started on camera designers who think that the way to high IQ is holding out your arms like a photo-zombie. Rrrrrrr. . . . brains.
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Old 03-07-2012   #12
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Worth it. I really like the EVF on my G1.




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Old 03-07-2012   #13
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Thanks!

I wasn't sure if it was worthwhile, to me, since it kind of defeats the purpose of a compact camera (to my standards, atleast). I felt that if I were to only use the EVF then I might as well get a Panasonic G or even a DSLR, but the great thing is that I'd have a choice. I can see the virtue of shooting both ways.

Unfortunately I won't be pursuing one anytime soon because my old laptop monitor/screen is having problems which means that I need a new computer instead of another camera.
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Old 03-07-2012   #14
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I have an E-P1 and I mostly regret to not have gotten the E-P2 for the possibility to add the EVF.
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Old 03-08-2012   #15
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Re.: defeating the purpose of a pocket-able with an EVF. The EVF is removable. When I walk around, the camera is either in my hand or pocket and the EVF is also in another pocket.
When I want to shoot, it slips on and away I go. Sounds awkward? Well if your camera is in your pocket, your not ready to shoot anyway, right?
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Old 03-11-2012   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jett View Post
I'm interested in an M43 but I'm not sure if an external electronic viewfinder is worthwhile.

I don't plan on manual focusing much because it is my snapshot camera but I feel that composing with a viewfinder would be more enjoyable; however, the viewfinders are generally not-so-good and expensive, so maybe they aren't worthwhile.

For those that have an M43/Nex/whatever, do you like using the EVF? Is it worthwhile, to you?
I use mine all the time on my Panasonic GF2. I can't get used to the idea of composing on a screen on the back of the camera. I know that people say "not so good," but if you're using AF lenses then it's a viewfinder rather than a focusing device. (For focusing things like Leica lenses, I'd rather have one of the newer cameras like the Sony or better yet the Ricoh, for the focus assistance devices they have.)

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Old 03-11-2012   #17
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I love the Olymus EVF-2 IMO a great VF but extremely disappointed with the Dlux 5 EVF1. Such a waste of $$$.
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Old 03-11-2012   #18
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I've got an E-P3, and I planned on getting the VF-2 right away.
That was in August. Still haven't gotten it.

In general I think I do prefer having an eye level finder, and catch myself putting the camera up to my face once in awhile, but the screen on the back has been good enough that I haven't really NEEDED the finder in most situations.

If I had ANY of the other olympus's I would have gotten the finder already though. The E-P3 screen is really that much better than the others- bigger/brighter/easier to see.

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Old 03-19-2012   #19
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I've had a G1 since just after they were introduced. The EVF is a little disconcerting when you first look through it if all you've used in the past has been optical viewfinders and SLRs. But you quickly realize how useful it can be and you adapt to the way the image looks.

I still prefer the clear, unobstructed view of optical viewfinders. I use accessory OVFs with my E-P1 and E-P2 cameras with 17mm and 25mm lenses. I just bought the EVF for the E-P2 and I'm beginning to like using it, especially with zooms.
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Old 03-19-2012   #20
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If you can hold out for another month seriously consider the Olympus E-M5.
The EVF is built in and everything else about the camera looks top notch.
The hotshot EVFs on the pen style cameras just stick up too much and are easily knocked - I hate them.
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Old 03-30-2012   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jett View Post
Thanks!

I wasn't sure if it was worthwhile, to me, since it kind of defeats the purpose of a compact camera (to my standards, atleast). I felt that if I were to only use the EVF then I might as well get a Panasonic G or even a DSLR, but the great thing is that I'd have a choice. I can see the virtue of shooting both ways.

Unfortunately I won't be pursuing one anytime soon because my old laptop monitor/screen is having problems which means that I need a new computer instead of another camera.
I understand where you are coming from. I shoot with the E-P1 and don't miss a viewfinder, though I shoot mostly with AF lenses. You can get away with MF up to 50mm (100mm equivalent), after that it gets very difficult. Here is a thread from another website you might find interesting. http://e-p1.net/lens-sample-photo-ar...5352/#msg75352

By the way, no need to delay your purchase. The E-P1 (nicest design, IMO, but doesn't take the EVF) has been on sale new for $199. The E-P2 has been going for $249 new.
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No EVF
Old 04-14-2012   #22
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No EVF

I bought a E-PL3 last fall and wasn't sure if I needed an EVF, so I waited. I'm happy I did.

I'm not a fan of the "tourist pose": iPhone/P&S held straight out, with all the attendant problems of glare, keeping the horizon level, screen blacking with Polaroid glasses, shake, and so on. Plus, it's a pretty conspicuous way to shoot.

The E-PL3 has a pivoting screen. I open it up to horizontal. No problem with glare (if there is, it can be set a few degrees off the horizontal), and if I need stability I can prop it against my ample belly. It reminds me a lot of shooting with the TLR I had as a teenager. For street shooting, it's inconspicuous.

After a few months using it this way (for horizontal shots; verticals need the tourist pose), I would not use an EVF if it were given me.

For many years I carried an Olympus XA everywhere and loved it. This one is becoming my new XA. It's not as compact, for sure, but with its waist-level shooting it's a really easy camera to use.
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Old 04-14-2012   #23
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Originally Posted by tchamber View Post
I bought a E-PL3 last fall and wasn't sure if I needed an EVF, so I waited. I'm happy I did.

I'm not a fan of the "tourist pose": iPhone/P&S held straight out, with all the attendant problems of glare, keeping the horizon level, screen blacking with Polaroid glasses, shake, and so on. Plus, it's a pretty conspicuous way to shoot.

The E-PL3 has a pivoting screen. I open it up to horizontal. No problem with glare (if there is, it can be set a few degrees off the horizontal), and if I need stability I can prop it against my ample belly. It reminds me a lot of shooting with the TLR I had as a teenager. For street shooting, it's inconspicuous.

After a few months using it this way (for horizontal shots; verticals need the tourist pose), I would not use an EVF if it were given me.

For many years I carried an Olympus XA everywhere and loved it. This one is becoming my new XA. It's not as compact, for sure, but with its waist-level shooting it's a really easy camera to use.
Interesting post!!
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Old 04-15-2012   #24
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I'm quite interested in m4/3 but have been biding my time until a body with an integrated EVF in the usual RF position becomes available - I'm not a fan of add-on VFs of any kind (optical or electronic.) I wish somebody would hurry up and make one, because there are a lot of m4/3 lenses I'd like to try!
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Old 04-15-2012   #25
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I'm quite interested in m4/3 but have been biding my time until a body with an integrated EVF in the usual RF position becomes available - I'm not a fan of add-on VFs of any kind (optical or electronic.) I wish somebody would hurry up and make one, because there are a lot of m4/3 lenses I'd like to try!
What about the new Olympus E-M5 then? It has been getting good reviews; has upgraded sensor and built in viewfinder. Looks more like a digital form of their OM series SLR than a RF design. The viewfinder is in the middle of the camera. http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusem5
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Old 04-15-2012   #26
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Nope, I'll wait for one in the upper corner. I have no problem with the SLR-type position, but for this style of shooting I much prefer the RF form factor. I'm very happy with how my NEX-7 is working out in this respect.
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Old 04-15-2012   #27
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Nope, I'll wait for one in the upper corner. I have no problem with the SLR-type position, but for this style of shooting I much prefer the RF form factor. I'm very happy with how my NEX-7 is working out in this respect.
Well, we agree on that. i am foregoing the E-M5 also, and I am not interested in the E-P3's touch screen either.

What do you make of the new Fuji X-Pro camera?
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Old 04-15-2012   #28
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Well, we agree on that. i am foregoing the E-M5 also, and I am not interested in the E-P3's touch screen either.

What do you make of the new Fuji X-Pro camera?
Very impressive, but out of my immediate price range. Also, Fuji products seem like they could use a little more time in the oven before they are released. Look at the X100 - it's been usable since release, but only now is it really starting to shine after almost two dozen firmware updates!
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Old 04-16-2012   #29
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For me, the EVF permits much faster and more accurate use of the camera. It's amazing getting the fast menus and so on right in front of my eyeball, something that is definitely an advantage over an OVF.

I do wish Olympus had an option to engage the menu and review images in the viewfinder as well. On bright days or in dark venues that would have real advantages.
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Old 04-17-2012   #30
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For me, the EVF permits much faster and more accurate use of the camera. It's amazing getting the fast menus and so on right in front of my eyeball, something that is definitely an advantage over an OVF.

I do wish Olympus had an option to engage the menu and review images in the viewfinder as well. On bright days or in dark venues that would have real advantages.
Fair enough, I've never used one so perhaps I shouldn't comment at all (and I'd like to try one but not possible on my camera).

I have an ocular viewfinder attached to my E-P1 for use with its standard lens (the 20/1.7) and I like going back and forth between the viewfinder and the LCD screen. Set lens at f 8 and in hyperfocal distance and you can turn off the screen and just shoot with the finder (you must separate focusing and capture functions onto different buttons). Or set parameters with LCD screen take a shot or two, then switch to the finder to see the scene from a different more contained perspective. It makes you flexible or gives you a chance to be flexible--freer from constant input of technical information. I usually shoot aperture priority, but I've done a lot of manual shooting as well. But that just suits the way I like to use a camera.

The other thing about the EVF--what I've read--no experience as I said, is that the viewfinder drains the battery.
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Old 04-18-2012   #31
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For me, the EVF permits much faster and more accurate use of the camera. It's amazing getting the fast menus and so on right in front of my eyeball, something that is definitely an advantage over an OVF.

I do wish Olympus had an option to engage the menu and review images in the viewfinder as well. On bright days or in dark venues that would have real advantages.
The Olympus E-P2 does allow for full menu and image review in the viewfinder. To access it you will need to press the viewfinder switch after engaging the menu or image review.

My only quibble with EVFs in general has to do with the way the view is presented--a little jerky and overly contrasty, sometimes grainy and murky. I much prefer the clear view of the optical finder. But that's not a deal breaker for me. I've come to the conclusion that I will never again buy any camera that does not offer some ability for eye-level viewing--be it built-in or a plug-in option. While I sometimes use the LCD exclusively, I like the ability to choose how I want to see the image.
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Old 04-18-2012   #32
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The other thing about the EVF--what I've read--no experience as I said, is that the viewfinder drains the battery.
I can't be sure, but it seems to me from my usage that the viewfinder preserves battery life compared with using the LCD.
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Old 04-18-2012   #33
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The Olympus E-P2 does allow for full menu and image review in the viewfinder. To access it you will need to press the viewfinder switch after engaging the menu or image review.
Good grief! I did not know this! Thanks!

But, in a way, this is even more irritating. Having to press the EVF button on each change between modes is annoying. I guess they still need that setting I referred to! The image should stay in the EVF unless I tell it not to.

Quote:
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My only quibble with EVFs in general has to do with the way the view is presented--a little jerky and overly contrasty, sometimes grainy and murky. I much prefer the clear view of the optical finder. But that's not a deal breaker for me.
Agreed. But EVFs will get better. Otherwise, how will they get us to buy a new camera?
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Old 04-18-2012   #34
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In strong sunshine it is very useful to have an EVF. The screen becomes useless due to tne glare.
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